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Income inequality
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

That says a lot about the people with whom you work.
I agree completely. But I think that most people are like this. The few people who aren't like this (like me and you) are the ones promoted to be the boss ... which is what is happening to me. I'm training to be the GM.

In fields that are more professional, people might be more motivated and have a better work ethic, but having to impress a boss is still a powerful motivator even among professionals.

I work with younger people. I think that millennials have the worst work ethic I've ever seen, and the value of good leaders necessarily increases proportionally.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
I work with younger people. I think that millennials have the worst work ethic I've ever seen, and the value of good leaders necessarily increases proportionally.
Amen. I hate to sound like a curmudgeon, but I'm growing more and more convinced that anyone under 40 is an idiot, and anyone under 30 shouldn't breed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I would go quite that far, myself, but I do agree that most people under 30, especially those under 25, have really dealt themselves a very bad hand when trying to start building a life for themselves. The amount of questionable material they have posted on social media sites, sometimes including drunken revels at college parties and even criminal activity, will make things difficult for them when they are interviewing for real jobs instead of running a cash register at a retail outlet. (Note: I am not denigrating people who run cash registers, only noting the difference between that work--which is honest work even if it doesn't pay very well--and a career such as management, technical manufacturing, or a corporate cubicle job like I have.) Couple that with the fact that those younger adults typically have literacy problems--yes, they can read, but they do have poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation skills--and trying to get a foot in the door of a lucrative career becomes exceedingly difficult. Our generation's problem with getting started on careers was that we didn't have the Internet like it exists now--wasn't looking for employment ads in the newspaper a fun exercise in futility?

I also agree that the work ethic of the younger folks leaves much to be desired.

Finally, I cannot disagree with the sentiment that a skilled supervisor can be a positive motivating factor for many employees in the workplace. An otherwise-negative work environment can be made positive by having a good boss.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We kept saying that this was going to happen and now it has started--Wendy's is going to roll out self-order kiosks in 1,000 of its national locations (16% of its locations, according to the article).

Quote:
In yet another awkwardly rational response to government intervention in deciding what's "fair", the blowback from minimum wage demanding fast food workers has struck again. Wendy's plans to install self-ordering kiosks in 1,000 of its stores--16% of its locations nationwide.

"Last year was tough--5 percent wage inflation," said Bob Wright, Wendy's chief operating officer, during his presentation to investors and analysts last week. He added that the company expects wages to rise 4 percent in 2017. "But the real question is what are we doing about it?"

Wright noted that over the past two years, Wendy's has figured out how to eliminate 31 hours of labor per week from its restaurants and is now working to use technology, such as kiosks, to increase efficiency.

Wendy's chief information officer, David Trimm, said the kiosks are intended to appeal to younger customers and reduce labor costs. Kiosks also allow customers of the fast food giant to circumvent long lines during peak dining hours while increasing kitchen production.

"There is a huge amount of pull from (franchisees) in order to get them," David Trimm, Wendy's chief information officer, said last week during the company's investors' day.

"With the demand we are seeing...we can absolutely see our way to having 1,000 or more restaurants live with kiosks by the end of the year."

A typical store would get three kiosks for about $15,000. Trimm estimated the payback on those machines would be less than two years, thanks to labor savings and increased sales. Customers still could order at the counter.

Kiosks are where the industry is headed, but Wendy's is ahead of the curve, said Darren Tristano, vice president with Technomic, a food-service research and consulting firm.


Unlike the people who say "I hate to say 'I told you so'" I never regret saying "I told you so", which is why more people should listen to me in the first place. Congratulations, Fight for 15 folks--you are beginning to get the world you wanted. Clearly they never learned the wisdom of taking care when making a wish because you might get what you wished for.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all called it here. What people dont understand or dont want to understand is that a no skill job shouldnt pay well. Its something anyone can do and there are billions of 'anyones' out there.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

SoulBiter wrote:
We all called it here. What people dont understand or dont want to understand is that a no skill job shouldnt pay well. Its something anyone can do and there are billions of 'anyones' out there.


What you seem to be implying is that because a behavior is rewarded by the Market, it must therefore be morally right and true.

That would be kinda like implying that pushing Granny down the stairs must be moral, since it is rewarded by Gravity.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

SoulBiter wrote:
We all called it here. What people dont understand or dont want to understand is that a no skill job shouldnt pay well. Its something anyone can do and there are billions of 'anyones' out there.


What you seem to be implying is that because a behavior is rewarded by the Market, it must therefore be morally right and true.

That would be kinda like implying that pushing Granny down the stairs must be moral, since it is rewarded by Gravity.
False equivalency is falsely equivalent..... Rolling Eyes

The no-skilled jobs are going away. That's a good thing. People need to get off their asses and get trained for something more than running a cash register.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

SoulBiter wrote:
We all called it here. What people dont understand or dont want to understand is that a no skill job shouldnt pay well. Its something anyone can do and there are billions of 'anyones' out there.


What you seem to be implying is that because a behavior is rewarded by the Market, it must therefore be morally right and true.

That would be kinda like implying that pushing Granny down the stairs must be moral, since it is rewarded by Gravity.
False equivalency is falsely equivalent..... Rolling Eyes

The no-skilled jobs are going away. That's a good thing. People need to get off their asses and get trained for something more than running a cash register.



Quote:
Ebenezer Scrooge: I cannot afford to make idle people merry. I have been forced to support the establishments I have mentioned through taxation and God knows they cost more than they're worth. Those who are badly off must go there.

2nd Portly Gentleman: Many would rather die than go there.

Ebenezer Scrooge: If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population, Good night, gentlemen.


and unfortunately that is what it's gonna come down to. There are in many ways, too many people for the available work, especially the work that actually pays 'real' money.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to see our society get more efficient, and I agree that people need to find better jobs, but minimum wage jobs are where teenagers--who can't help that they have no experience or developed skills--still need jobs.

Wos, the moral superiority is exhibited by those who demand arbitrary pay raises for sectors of the economy where market demand doesn't justify the raise. People don't receive a wage because it's a moral obligation that people receive others' money, they EARN a wage based on how much others' value their contribution to the economy. It's a reciprocation, not an obligation. Society has no moral obligation to pay you more than your effort and skills are worth, as determined by those who spend their money. My willingness to spend my money is a function of my free will. If I think something costs too much, it's no one's business to say more should be spent in producing it (e.g. by forcing employers to pay more in labor costs). You can't force people to spend more money, for both pragmatic and moral reasons. Obviously, it's wrong to violate my freewill, but it's also impossible to make me buy something that I don't think is a good value. Forcing employers to spend more on labor only forces them out of business or forces employees out of a job. Moral superiority divorced from pragmatic realities achieve nothing but unintended--and often unwanted--consequences. They never achieve their intended goal.

If your contribution to the economy can be easily replaced by a machine that does your job better, you are the last person who should be complaining that you're not being paid enough! You're lucky to have a job at all. People get raises for exactly the opposite reason, i.e. being vital and irreplaceable, or replaceable only with more cost and/or difficulty. Only in the progressive mindset does it make sense to pay people more for nothing at all. (The same kind of emotional math exists in thinking that a massive government monopoly can lower health care costs ... I don't get this kind of irrational thinking.)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
I'm glad to see our society get more efficient, and I agree that people need to find better jobs, but minimum wage jobs are where teenagers--who can't help that they have no experience or developed skills--still need jobs.


But what happens when those jobs no longer enable people to meet minimum basic needs?

--A
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The moment a government begins to follow a policy of exerting downward pressure on incomes by flooding the labour market with a greater supply than can be 'soaked up' by the demand it becomes morally incumbent upon them to prevent unscrupulous employers from abusing their workers by paying a less than livable wage (done via the mechanism of a minimum wage) and to provide a benefits safety net for those who find themselves unable to secure work.

It's not hard to see the flaws in this policy, the cost of the latter two being greater than the benefit of the former, and for this reason alone such meddling in the levels of labour supply of an economy should be avoided.

But it's academic anyway: there is not one of us whose job will not be done better by an algorithm in short order and no-one whose skill set is so advanced as to make them irreplaceable.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
I'm glad to see our society get more efficient, and I agree that people need to find better jobs, but minimum wage jobs are where teenagers--who can't help that they have no experience or developed skills--still need jobs.


But what happens when those jobs no longer enable people to meet minimum basic needs?
Sounds to me like they need to take responsibility for themselves and make themselves more valuable to employers.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think you aren't being paid enough and/or you are worried that your job might be replaced by a kiosk or robot, then move to Texas, get a CDL, and land a job which will pay you $80,000 per year. If you don't read the article, let me summarize it--the suppliers of field equipment for oil/gas producers cannot keep up with demand because they don't have enough drivers to get the equipment where it needs to be and they need more drivers. They are willing to pay $80k for CDLs. It won't be glamorous work but it will definitely pay the bills.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seemed like a good enough thread for this story since it generally touches upon the "income inequality" topic. Another G20 summit, another round of anti-capitalist protests and/or rioting. They do this every time the G20 meet and the results are always the same--nothing. It is a little funny, though--some of the protestors are claiming that the mostly-capitalist countries represented at this meeting are why we have things like war, famine, and exploitation in the world. What, then, caused war, famine, and exploitation before capitalism existed, hm?

Some of the protesters also think that the G20 countries are heavy-handed autocracies, dictatorships, plutocracies, or whatever other word of the day they are choosing to use. If those countries, Germany in particular since that is where the current summit is being held, were so draconian then the police wouldn't be using water cannons and tear gas; instead, they would be using live hollow-point rounds for crowd dispersal.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, hasn't capitalism pretty much always existed? (At least in principle, if not in the explicitly defined state we think of today.) Not that it's the sole cause of any of those things, but certainly it's been a major contributor I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av, I'm not sure what you mean. Sure, there were early precursors to capitalism, but it's a fairly modern invention that many 3rd world countries still have not adopted. From Wikipedia:
Quote:

Thus for much of history, capital and commercial trade existed, but it did not lead to industrialisation or dominate the production process of society. That required a set of conditions, including specific technologies of mass production, the ability to independently and privately own and trade in means of production, a class of workers willing to sell their labour power for a living, a legal framework promoting commerce, a physical infrastructure allowing the circulation of goods on a large scale, and security for private accumulation. Many of these conditions do not currently exist in many Third World countries, although there is plenty of capital and labour. Thus, the obstacles for the development of capitalist markets are less technical and more social, cultural and political.


In my opinion, capitalism and industrialization go hand in hand. Capital investment (e.g. in large production facilities), the division of labor, wage labor, private ownership, and a market where all these goods/services could be freely traded ... these haven't always been with us. Mass production and a modern infrastructure for the transportation of goods are necessary ingredients. This means industrialization. I suppose in the preindustrial era you *could* have capital investment in large plots of land and employ wage laborers for farming, but most large farms weren't like this. They were family estates worked by slaves or serfs. Industrialization freed people. The need for labor freed people. Capitalism freed people. It's not just about making money. It is the engine of freedom. Private property is the foundational principle, before all else. The right to earn and keep what you earn. The more we chip away at this concept, the more we enslave ourselves again. Government dependency is a form of bondage. You lose your independence when you are dependent.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Government dependency is a form of bondage. You lose your independence when you are dependent.


Good luck trying to convince people of this truth. The people who are the most resistant to this idea are, ironically, the ones who are the most economically enslaved to the government. The idea of not having their little safety nets is so frightening that they will resist the alternative as if their life depended upon it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Av, I'm not sure what you mean. Sure, there were early precursors to capitalism, but it's a fairly modern invention that many 3rd world countries still have not adopted...


Well, based on that definition, then no, capitalism didn't cause wars, famine, exploitation etc. Very Happy

However, perhaps I can rephrase what I meant by suggesting that perhaps the attitudes / inclinations that contributed to the development of capitalism similarly contributed to those things in the past.

Avarice, greed, ownership and the desire to own more, lack of empathy, lust for power, things like that are what contributed to war etc. and we can certainly see those same inclinations demonstrated in far too many examples of capitalism as well I think.

--A
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to choose between citing the story here on in the "Insanity of the Left" thread; I chose here.

The Seattle City Council has approved a new 2.25% tax on those earning $250,000 as an individual or $500,000 for couples. The immediate challenges to this law notwithstanding--the article cites Washington State law which prevents cities from taxing income in addition to a requirement that cities receive State approval to levy a tax--the first thing that will happen is that people who live in Seattle who will be hit by this tax will move out of Seattle so that they don't reside in that tax district.

There is one brain-dead "software developer" quoted in the article who claims that she makes over $170,000 annually and that she "would love to be taxed". You don't have to be taxed, you insipid, Millennial waste of space. If you want to contribute more then all you have to do is donate as much money to the city as you think you should be contributing; a tax is not required. Another person, identified as Karen Taylor, 34 (who is, apparently, "struggling to stay housed") said, "Whoever goes against this is openly causing suffering". What a crock of bullshit! Finally, the usual argument presented by Bobby Righi, 79, is as follows: "It's time for the rich to pay their fair share". Define, exactly, what "fair" means, Ms. Righi, or exactly how much/what percentage would constitue "fair".

Anyway...it's Seattle--what did you expect? Like I said, the people who would be hit by this tax are already looking to move out of the city. What are these old-school, tax-and-spend, we-support-government-theft folks going to do when enough rich people move out? Raise the tax on the people who remain? Lower the threshhold of the tax to $75,000/$150,000?

Oh, note that Seattle is being sneaky about it. The tax is to be levied on "total income" rather than net incomes because legally those are different things. Also, council lawyers might try to use the argument that income isn't property because State law requires that taxes be equal within a class of property.

Just another round of money-hungry leeches looking to take that which does not belong to them and using government as their weapon instead of a gun. Robbery is still robbery no matter how you engage in the activity.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Government can only do it because they have the guns. Very Happy

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