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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Kevins Dirt... Reply with quote

I was contemplating why it was called Kevins Dirt, although I'm fairly sure it was mentioned directly in the book as to why, and I Came up with another kooky theory. With time travel so prevalent in runes, would foul have gone back into the past shortly after TRoD and brought the dirt back through the ceasures? I can't remember if it was explained, so if anyone has a direct reference from the book let me know.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought it was weird that it was named Kevins dirt too- Poor Kevin, he already has enough bad things too be named after without adding stuff he didn't do.
I doubt kevin actually caused it though, and I doubt donaldson would use time travel like that. But im thinking that if the third chrons are anything like the first and second, at least some of this will be the fault of linden and/or covenant.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But im thinking that if the third chrons are anything like the first and second, at least some of this will be the fault of linden and/or covenant.


Probably TC's fault. linden's too pure and too good to be assosiated with any type of dirt (Come on, where are you foolish Thoolah's? Laughing )

Quote:
would foul have gone back into the past shortly after TRoD and brought the dirt back through the ceasures


I can't imagine Foul doing anything so straightforward! I agree with DW that he may have manipulated events so that TC or one of the other good characters is to blame for it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've wondered about it too. Stave says that the Masters name it Kevin's Dirt because "it carries a foretaste of desecration"

But that still doesn't make a lot of sense. It certainly demonstrates how much judgement the Haruchai still hold towards Kevin (or to all those who despair).

On a related matter, why do they call the caesures "falls"? What do they know about them that they aren't saying?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I expect SRD wouldn't have named it Kevin's Dirt if there wasn't some strong significance to the label. I wouldn't be suprised if when Foul was pressed by Linden about what had been done to the Land and Foul confessed that he'd only indirectly caused or influenced matters toward his plans, that Kevin's Dirt could have somehow been created by Kevin himself with some deliberate participation by LF. I'm guessing of course but the way things are going in the story thus far it seems to me that all bets are off as far as what is impossible and was isn't. IMHO.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
that Kevin's Dirt could have somehow been created by Kevin himself with some deliberate participation by LF.


WOW Shocked

So you're saying that perhaps dead Kevin himself created the Dirt?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Quote:
that Kevin's Dirt could have somehow been created by Kevin himself with some deliberate participation by LF.


WOW Shocked

So you're saying that perhaps dead Kevin himself created the Dirt?


Well Kevin may have been responsible in some way. Either his spectre might have had direct influence over someone living that had the power or the dead may have more physical ability than we might have guessed. When Elena resurrected Kevin, she sent him into direct conflict with Foul. That might imply that the dead can wield power to some extent. In any case I suspect that SRD means for there to be more significance in the name "Kevin's Dirt" than some negative label by the Haruchai.

Again. My witless two bit opinion. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought that the dead spectres were powerless just by themselves, and were only strong if there was some other power. Like I thought the earthblood 'empowered' kevin to some extent, same as the staff of law or illearth stone for elena, or at least accessable earthpower for the spectres in andelain.
I think kevin causing the dirt would be too pointless- I mean, hes hardly a character weve watched progress and grown to love.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could have been Kevin's fault in a round about way though!

Kevin could have set it into motion with the Ritual.

The ROD could have caused the release of the Appointed to the North, or weakened the appointed's binding to where he would break free.
Then with the Skurj he is now attacking the earthpower and that is causing Kevin's dirt Question
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a fascinating idea MOS, perhaps the dirt is like a stain or odour, a pall over the land, reflecting the dead in the deadening of the senses; the properties of the dead infecting the Land and demeaning the Lore.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was pretty clear that the Masters invented the name "Kevin's Dirt" because they deemed the blindness it causes to be like that which overcame Kevin near the end. I doubt it will have anything to do with Kevin in the end, but was given that name to give the characters to reflect on the extent to which the actions of the Haruchai are still be guided by their interpretation of what happened when Kevin sent them away.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Oliver Johnson's Lightbringer Trilogy, the invisible-on-the-ground stuff (moderately spoilerish effect:) Spoiler:
that was causing the sun to gradually grow dark
(mildly spoilerish even though it gets revealed very late cause:)Spoiler:
was the souls of the dead pouring out from the afterlife.
I have no idea of SRD has read that obscure series (he probably wouldn't borrow from it that directly, though), or if it's just a case of two authors having been influenced by William Hope Hodgson while being aware of Spoiler:
the modern theories regarding the life cycle of stars
, or if there isn't even that.

I'm convinced that the breaking of the Law of Life and/or the creation of the Staff of Law has something to do with Kevin's Dirt. If the situation isn't straight from Lightbringer, my guess would be that Kevin's Dirt with its "spent, industrial hue" is used-up Earthpower that due to the broken laws no longer departs properly, much like the Dead. Kevin's Dirt probably wouldn't actually have been made by Kevin, unless it can come back from wherever it went before the breaking of the laws, just like the Dead.

Perhaps the Masters are right, actually. Perhaps using Earthpower really makes things worse because it inexorably adds to Kevin's Dirt. Linden's dispersal of Kevin's Dirt would be like fighting smoke with a coal-powered air conditioning system that shunts the smoke elsewhere while creating more smoke.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's propaganda to make Kevin look even worse. Probably thought up by Foul or some Raver-possessed minion.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if the source of Kevin's dirt was either the actions or the inaction of some of the Haruchai? Wouldn't it be logical for them to hide their own responsibility by blaming their chosen strawman?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only if they knew that they were to blame, which seems unlikely.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts on the likely origin of Kevin's Dirt. This is based on the assumption that the ability to see health is, for "normal" humans, a manifestation of their interaction with Earthpower. I also have to go back to Runes and check my facts that Kevin's Dirt began to manifest AFTER the Master's took power.

IF those two assumptions are correct, then my guess for the origin of Kevin's Dirt is this: the ability to see health was derived from Earthpower. The interaction between the people of the Land and Earthpower, as we know it from the 1st and 2nd Chronicles, was founded when Berek beseached the Earth for help in his last extremity against LF, and the Earth answered and provided him with the use of Earthpower. Berek entered into a covenant (ba-boom) with the Earth to honour, tend, and venerate the power of the Earth. This covenant was honoured and observed by generations of people in the Land and the gifts of Earthpower were shared to differing extents by the people of the Land.

Skip forward a few ten thousand years and we find ourselves with the Staff of Law, and its focusing power for Earthpower, missing, the population of the Land either ignorant or hostile to Earthpower, and the covenant made by Berek largely abandoned. Is it not possible that in this circumstance, the 'assistance' and gifts that the Earthpower had offered would be "withdrawn", as the people of the Land had turned their backs (unwittingly in most cases) on it first. It remains there for people with the knowledge to draw upon, but is retreating from the Land, and becoming increasingly difficult to call upon. Only an artefact able to focus and 'invigorate' the relationship between humans and Earthpower like the Staff of Law is able to reverse this trend, but even that is a localised and temporary effect until the larger damage to the covenant between Earth and man is repaired.

When you consider that Earthpower is sentinent/reflected/personified in the Elohim, and how capricious the Elohim can appear to be, and their reluctance to 'sacrifice' themselves as Appointed, its possible that if the breaking of the Covenant has weakened the ability of previous Appointed to provide the gifts of Earthpower to the land, they are unwilling to fix the problem and are content to allow the ungrateful (in their eyes) people of the Land to suffer in 'blindness'.

The Haruchai retain their sight, but they have previously shown themselves to be immune to alterations in the Earthpower "field" with their immunity to the Sunbane, so this probably wouldn't affect them like the other peoples of the Land.

The 'smog' of Kevin's Dirt that Linden saw is actually the decay or withdrawal of Earthpower from the Land.

LF didn't actually have anything to do with creating Kevin's Dirt in this scenario - at least not directly. Its actually the fault of the people of the Land, or more particularly the Masters in forcing the people of the Land to abandon the respect for, and interaction with, Earthpower. In doing this the Masters have aided Foul, but at worst its an indirect result of his previous machinations against the Bloodguard/Haruchai - something he probably didn't plan but is prepared to take advantage of.

Anyway, just a theory...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great theory MR.

You know what comes next.

BUT ... health-sense is not withdrawn, it is blocked by the Dirt. Liand has plenty of health-sense when he leaves the influence of the Dirt. And the Masters are immune to it.

Linden describes Kevin's Dirt as "depriving her not of oxygen but of some more subtle substance".

It does make a lot of sense that the loss of health-sense is a symbol (at least) of the abandoning of Earthpower. But it's clear that the Earth has not withdrawn it's grace from the people of the Land; rather, some other party is interfering with it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfriend wrote:
You know what comes next.


???
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I think he mean the "BUT..." Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(At the risk of being predictable) This was posted yesterday.

In the Gradual Interview was wrote:
Jim K: As always, thank you for writing. I am reading Runes for the second time and want to know....
Are the Bloodguard part of the problem of Kevin's Dirt?
In other words, is their denial of Earthpower towards the common folk causing the phenomenon?
[...] thanks again. Jim K
    No, the Haruchai share no responsibility for the existence of Kevin's Dirt. They don't do any magic. Withholding or stifling knowledge isn't the same thing as manipulating or tarnishing Earthpower. If asked, they might say that they consider Earthpower sacred: too sacred to be (mis)used by fallible human beings.

    (02/28/2007)

Well, that busts a hole in my theory.
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