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The meaning of The Last Dark
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: The meaning of The Last Dark Reply with quote

The title "The Last Dark" is a reference to the void. And yet, even "in the most profound chasms, the wind still blows."
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: The meaning of The Last Dark Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
The title "The Last Dark" is a reference to the void. And yet, even "in the most profound chasms, the wind still blows."


With all due respect, you don't know that.

It is possible, nigh probable, but there are other things it could refer to, death among others.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be welcome to the Watch, Attest.
Be Well Come and True.

Please feel free to come introduce yourself over in the Say Hello in Here thread over in The Summonsing

I look forward to reading your future posts. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:35 am    Post subject: Re: The meaning of The Last Dark Reply with quote

Attest wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
The title "The Last Dark" is a reference to the void. And yet, even "in the most profound chasms, the wind still blows."


With all due respect, you don't know that.

It is possible, nigh probable, but there are other things it could refer to, death among others.


Maybe, but I didn't go into much detail, I've just been waiting for a response such as yours.

I certainly agree with you in that the title can refer to many things even in SRD's own mind, and by his own intention. That makes it a real curiosity.

But recall that when traveling between worlds during summons they experience a sense of an enormous void and a strong wind. Even in the void between worlds there is still something. Even if you are completely stripped of mind, intellect and personality, the spirit within you lives on and cannot be erased. This is a lesson SRD stated he learned from an author he particularly enjoys, Patricia McKillip.

There is no doubt in my mind that SRD plans on destroying the Land and the Earth in which it resides, leaving nothing but darkness and the void. But the spirit that created the Land lives on. And I believe it will bring the Land back to life again.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: The meaning of The Last Dark Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
Attest wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
The title "The Last Dark" is a reference to the void. And yet, even "in the most profound chasms, the wind still blows."


With all due respect, you don't know that.

It is possible, nigh probable, but there are other things it could refer to, death among others.


Maybe, but I didn't go into much detail, I've just been waiting for a response such as yours.

I certainly agree with you in that the title can refer to many things even in SRD's own mind, and by his own intention. That makes it a real curiosity.

But recall that when traveling between worlds during summons they experience a sense of an enormous void and a strong wind. Even in the void between worlds there is still something. Even if you are completely stripped of mind, intellect and personality, the spirit within you lives on and cannot be erased. This is a lesson SRD stated he learned from an author he particularly enjoys, Patricia McKillip.

There is no doubt in my mind that SRD plans on destroying the Land and the Earth in which it resides, leaving nothing but darkness and the void. But the spirit that created the Land lives on. And I believe it will bring the Land back to life again.


It is indeed probable that SRD does plan on the end of the Land, the current theme of the Last Chronicles is certainly one of letting go of the Land (or, rather, the destruction of the Land) but the Last Dark could be the void of the destruction of the Land and its world, or it could be something more abstract or subjective (the death of a PoV character.)

By the way Menolly, thanks for the welcome.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: The meaning of The Last Dark Reply with quote

Attest wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
Attest wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
The title "The Last Dark" is a reference to the void. And yet, even "in the most profound chasms, the wind still blows."


With all due respect, you don't know that.

It is possible, nigh probable, but there are other things it could refer to, death among others.


Maybe, but I didn't go into much detail, I've just been waiting for a response such as yours.

I certainly agree with you in that the title can refer to many things even in SRD's own mind, and by his own intention. That makes it a real curiosity.

But recall that when traveling between worlds during summons they experience a sense of an enormous void and a strong wind. Even in the void between worlds there is still something. Even if you are completely stripped of mind, intellect and personality, the spirit within you lives on and cannot be erased. This is a lesson SRD stated he learned from an author he particularly enjoys, Patricia McKillip.

There is no doubt in my mind that SRD plans on destroying the Land and the Earth in which it resides, leaving nothing but darkness and the void. But the spirit that created the Land lives on. And I believe it will bring the Land back to life again.


It is indeed probable that SRD does plan on the end of the Land, the current theme of the Last Chronicles is certainly one of letting go of the Land (or, rather, the destruction of the Land) but the Last Dark could be the void of the destruction of the Land and its world, or it could be something more abstract or subjective (the death of a PoV character.)


Like I said, the title can have many meanings even in SRD's own mind. And since the theme of the Last Chronicles is acceptance, as SRD stated, that would be the last of the five "stages of death": denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance (Elizabeth Kubler Ross). But it is not so much acceptance of death as it is acceptance of a fundamental law of the universe that cannot be broken: that death begets new life, and indeed, death is necessary to make room for new life and growth. This, I submit, is the Law of Creation.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! I've read similar discussion threads on this . . . all of you have such a gloomy outlook! Very Happy

Not me though . . . I may be the only one, but I really feel that "The Last Dark" refers to the final defeat of despite.

No more will it's darkness threaten the Land.

You'll see - it's all going to end a lot happier then everyone thinks. Sure, bad stuff will happen, but the final victory of "Good" is at hand.

Linden and Covenant may even get a little "happily ever after" time in the Land.

(No, I'm not naive . . . I'm serious . . . ya'll just wait!) Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beyondthebreach wrote:
Ha! I've read similar discussion threads on this . . . all of you have such a gloomy outlook! Very Happy

Not me though . . . I may be the only one, but I really feel that "The Last Dark" refers to the final defeat of despite.

No more will it's darkness threaten the Land.

You'll see - it's all going to end a lot happier then everyone thinks. Sure, bad stuff will happen, but the final victory of "Good" is at hand.

Linden and Covenant may even get a little "happily ever after" time in the Land.

(No, I'm not naive . . . I'm serious . . . ya'll just wait!) Cool


I said something similar to that in another post recently. At least one other post. I'm just talking about the title. What happens after the title comes true is another question. Death begets life, darkness begets light.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I recall, wasn't Covenant told, at some point in Second Chronicles, that the Earth had passed into its last age, from which there could be no redemption? (or words to that effect)

So, the passing of this final Age could be "The Last Dark". But I see 2 probable (based on my interpretation of things) "what follows after".

1. The Insequent (basing this on their name, taking the "In" to mean "not") manage to go back in time to some critical point and prevent one fo the great pivotal catastrophes....make Kevin aware of Foul's nature, prevent the switch from high Lord to na-Mhoram, etc.

2. Covenant uses Wild Magic to knock down the Arch, yet maintain "pockets" of time to preserve most or all of the denizens of the world. No Arch, Creator nukes Foul, makes NEW Arch (enclosing Covenant plus the preservation bubbles) which holds an "Earth Mark 2"
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Such an act would destroy the Arch along with the Insequent.

2. I don't see any pockets of time happening. In AATE, LA and TC will travel by Dromond back to the Isle of the One Tree to confront the menace of the Worm's awakening.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
1. Such an act would destroy the Arch along with the Insequent.

2. I don't see any pockets of time happening. In AATE, LA and TC will travel by Dromond back to the Isle of the One Tree to confront the menace of the Worm's awakening.


The Arch apparently still holds, despite the devastation around Earthrootstair wrought by Linden which didn't exist in 1st Chronicles when Elena and TC went, so I don't see the Insequent using some lore to go back and "fix" things necessarily breaking the Arch.

The Arch of Time was formed from Wild Magic, so I can't see why Wild Magic couldn't be used to "create" or "maintain" pockets of Time.

Of course, while these seem the most likely ones to me, I'm quite certain that when The Last Dark is published, I will be shown to have been fantastically misled.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seven Words wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
1. Such an act would destroy the Arch along with the Insequent.

2. I don't see any pockets of time happening. In AATE, LA and TC will travel by Dromond back to the Isle of the One Tree to confront the menace of the Worm's awakening.


The Arch apparently still holds, despite the devastation around Earthrootstair wrought by Linden which didn't exist in 1st Chronicles when Elena and TC went, so I don't see the Insequent using some lore to go back and "fix" things necessarily breaking the Arch.

The Arch of Time was formed from Wild Magic, so I can't see why Wild Magic couldn't be used to "create" or "maintain" pockets of Time.

Of course, while these seem the most likely ones to me, I'm quite certain that when The Last Dark is published, I will be shown to have been fantastically misled.


By me, you mean?

It was stated in the last two books that altering the past in the way you suggested would break the Arch. That means changing the history of the Land. The incident at Earthrootstair did not change history.

Wild magic is capable of amazing things. Maybe they should use it to knock the Worm on the head and put it back to sleep. Wouldn't that be as plausible as your idea?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, the Land as it stands now will be gone. But all the seeds of recreation and/or rebirth are piling up. By which I mean:
1) Not one, but 2 WG rings here. Despite the hazards of the wild power, it is also partly unrestrained possibility. [and what is creation, other than the 'embodying' of possibility]
2) The ur-viles made Vain, a being of pure structure, but he was just 'phase one' of their ultimate goal (Esmer said he got them to agree to come by promising to let them witness the completion of what they began with this)
3) They have made 'manacles.' Manacles are just a more personal version of a prison...to restrain, not cage, (for instance, if somehow used on LF, they could "bind" him to following law...pure unsupported, spur of the moment speculation)
4) Jeremiah's power. He can make both walls and doors, and he does it with structure as long as he has the proper materials.
White gold+Manacles (+perhaps Elohim, definitely something of Earthpower, though altered), stir ingredients in Jeremiah's Cauldron. Poof!
Let there be light!
It will be more complicated, of course. [the Insequent belong here...certainly there abilities concerning Time and Place are relevant?
And who knows what else they can do, since it seems that they each have their own 'specialties'
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
Seven Words wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
1. Such an act would destroy the Arch along with the Insequent.

2. I don't see any pockets of time happening. In AATE, LA and TC will travel by Dromond back to the Isle of the One Tree to confront the menace of the Worm's awakening.


The Arch apparently still holds, despite the devastation around Earthrootstair wrought by Linden which didn't exist in 1st Chronicles when Elena and TC went, so I don't see the Insequent using some lore to go back and "fix" things necessarily breaking the Arch.

The Arch of Time was formed from Wild Magic, so I can't see why Wild Magic couldn't be used to "create" or "maintain" pockets of Time.

Of course, while these seem the most likely ones to me, I'm quite certain that when The Last Dark is published, I will be shown to have been fantastically misled.


By me, you mean?

It was stated in the last two books that altering the past in the way you suggested would break the Arch. That means changing the history of the Land. The incident at Earthrootstair did not change history.

Wild magic is capable of amazing things. Maybe they should use it to knock the Worm on the head and put it back to sleep. Wouldn't that be as plausible as your idea?


No, I meant misled as in I arrived at wholly erroneous conclusions. I need no assistance to go astray, I manage quite well on my own. Smile

Maybe the Insequent get a tag-team assist from TC, using Wild Magic to continuously mend the damage being inflicted on the Arch.

I'm still rather fond of my "pockets of Time" after the Arch collapses, using folks like Mhoram, Foamfollower, etc. as architects of an earth Mark 2. Whatever SRD does end up doing, I'm pretty positive nobody on here (of course that includes me) will guess it.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with beyondthebreach so far as to say that the ending will be happier than everyone thinks, SRD loves to put his characters through a lot but mostly always ends on a happyish note. For example, behold the GAP sequence!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reference to void = I believe it was in The One Tree we learned that prior to getting a full belly, and falling asleep, the WOWE swam around eating stars. Thus helping to create the void. Is this what the author is reffering to with the Last Dark, doubtful . IMO.

Unless the light shines from everywhere, there will always remain a place that is dark. The Last Dark.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last Dark is a reference to Lindens black moods.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWOLF wrote:
The last Dark is a reference to Lindens black moods.


It means "death."
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought when you died you saw a bright light.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Broken wrote:
I thought when you died you saw a bright light.


I don't know, I haven't died yet. Big Grin
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