Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The "New" Giants
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> Fatal Revenant
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
Würm

Male
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2084

Thanks: 10
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts


641 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Arghule


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: The "New" Giants Reply with quote

It's been mentioned before that the Giants in FR are somehow different from previous Giants - less endearing, perhaps a bit more barbaric or simply with more blunt edges to their personalities than usual.

I don't think there is anything in the story itself to explain this change, nothing in recent Giantish history to account for it.

One thing has changed, however, and that is the sense of universal peril that suffuses the story. The end is drawing nigh, and I would give the Land's Earth, at best, two months, as they reckon time, to "live."

This kind of "fatal" story is simply not the right context for the endearing Giants of yore.
_________________
"Simony... blah blah... "

When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion.

The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rdhopeca
Ur-Lord Author and Musician

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 2307

Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts

Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
2328 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2008 Watchies1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franky what I find missing from them are two things: their sense of joy, and their sense of humor. Perhaps that is related to part of your point about the universal end, but you know, things were just as bleak in TOT and WGW and the Giants then had verve and humor and joy.
_________________
Rob

"Progress is made. Be warned."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Phoogle Map
Vraith
LibTard, Mr. Reliable.


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10181

Thanks: 17
Thanked 94 Times in 91 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
28156 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we'll see those things [if we don't I'll be sad]...we've barely met these ones yet...and remember that they have had a few centuries of being unwelcome in the Land, and that these particular ones have had precious little experience of joy lately. They'll come back.
_________________
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-------------------------------------------------------
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
High Lord Tolkien
Excommunicated Member of THOOLAH

Male
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 6740

Thanks: 9
Thanked 41 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Cape Cod, Mass
1697 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Lord Mhoram's Victory


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are a different "type" of Giants.
They are not an official Search of mostly sailors probably hand picked for being the very best and given the responsibility to save the world.
They are all warriors (like the First and she wasn't all happy and lovey dovey either) hastily gathered together.
But it's a tight group though, they care about each other.
And with one of them being a murderous mad-giant hell bent on killing Linden (bless his heart) they don't have a lot to be joyful about.
_________________
http://thoolah.blogspot.com/



[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Demondime-a-dozen-spawn
Fresh out of the Warren inside Mappo Trell's sack


Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 447

Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

Location: Minnesota/Wisconsin DMZ
864 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus, they've all just subjected themselves to a camoraa, of course they're going to be a little reserved and subdued.

Also, we do not yet know how they will emerge from their encounter with the Giantish dead.

I do hope they bounce back from their somewhat dour aspect. If they don't I'll be soul-crushed.
_________________
Meets or Exceeds International Humane Kill Standards.



Perpetual Motion or Until the Rubber Band Wears Out Motion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
Würm

Male
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2084

Thanks: 10
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts


641 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Arghule


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rdhopeca wrote:
Franky what I find missing from them are two things: their sense of joy, and their sense of humor. Perhaps that is related to part of your point about the universal end, but you know, things were just as bleak in TOT and WGW and the Giants then had verve and humor and joy.


Only this time it really is the end. I'm not saying these Giants are somehow affected by it, only that SRD has written this kind of Giant into the story for a reason.
_________________
"Simony... blah blah... "

When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion.

The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
Würm

Male
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2084

Thanks: 10
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts


641 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Arghule


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
These are a different "type" of Giants.
They are not an official Search of mostly sailors probably hand picked for being the very best and given the responsibility to save the world.
They are all warriors (like the First and she wasn't all happy and lovey dovey either) hastily gathered together.
But it's a tight group though, they care about each other.
And with one of them being a murderous mad-giant hell bent on killing Linden (bless his heart) they don't have a lot to be joyful about.


Circumstantially, they don't have much to be joyful about. The mad Giant will come back to himself after he finally does away with your friend Linden.
_________________
"Simony... blah blah... "

When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion.

The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hearthrall antonicus
PrinceofPepsi, DukeofDew,DoctorofPepper

Male
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 236

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Central Valley,Ca.(N.of Bakersfield, S.of Fresno)
509 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Gravelling1 Covenant's Novels


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After being stuck on a boat, chasing around a mad giant, probably getting kicked, punched and slapped around by aforementioned mad giant for , like months, if I were o one the Swordmainnor I wouldnt be joyful like the giants of old just yet.......
_________________
You can judge the true character of a person on how they treat those who can do nothing for them
-Sensei Moe,Sensei Larry,Sensei Curly...
Shemp was NOT a wannabe, Joe Besser was the Poser


Chairman of M E M L A
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
Würm

Male
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2084

Thanks: 10
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts


641 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Arghule


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearthrall antonicus wrote:
After being stuck on a boat, chasing around a mad giant, probably getting kicked, punched and slapped around by aforementioned mad giant for , like months, if I were o one the Swordmainnor I wouldnt be joyful like the giants of old just yet.......


Let me just say then they aren't the types of Giants we'll miss when they're gone. They're ok...
_________________
"Simony... blah blah... "

When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion.

The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Seareach
A sailor went to...

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 5847

Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts


8914 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caamora1 2007 Watchies1 Coercri


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
Let me just say then they aren't the types of Giants we'll miss when they're gone. They're ok...


I won't be making my mind up about them until they're gone (put a different way: until their journey in this book ends. I don't think I've had enough time yet to actually get to know them and make any kind of decisions as to whether I'll miss them or not).
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
danlo
Lord of Neverness


Joined: 06 Mar 2002
Posts: 20840

Thanks: 43
Thanked 55 Times in 55 Posts

Location: Albuquerque NM
2491 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2005 Watcher of the Year1 Sandgorgon1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has it been settled that Longwrath really is intent on Linden, or do the rumors still hold that he may have mistaken her power for Joan?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
sweetbread
Pancreas of the Earth


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 154

Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


795 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danlo wrote:
Has it been settled that Longwrath really is intent on Linden, or do the rumors still hold that he may have mistaken her power for Joan?


No, and there is just too much ambiguity at this point to make that distinction with any accuracy. It IS obvious that he is trying to kill a female from outside of the Land whom possesses White Gold, however, that may be Joan as well as Linden...

....however, he IS homing in on Linden like a freakin' heatseaker (or in Linden's case, a frigid-seeker) so I think that may have something to do with it. He started at the Giant's homeland, and went, DIRECTLY, to Linden. Getting from their homeland to the Land was something that not only something that happened completely by accidents to the Giants of the Search, but IIRC it also took decades.

Longwrath is certainly targeting Linden.
_________________
emotional leper wrote:
Is bad-assness not a most puissant power, Ninjaboy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18858

Thanks: 11
Thanked 216 Times in 199 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
43177 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

There is certainly nothing expository about any of them except Rime Coldspray and Longwrath. And there's not much of that.

How many of the giants can you name without looking?
Spoiler:
Rime Coldspray (Ironhand)
Frostheart Grueburn
Onyx Stonemage
Stormpast Galesend
Halewhole Bluntfist
Cirrus Kindwind (lost her arm)
Scend Wavegift (slain by Longwrath)
Moire Squireset (slain by skurj)
??? Cabledarm
??? Latebirth
And Exalt Widenedworld, aka Lostson Longwrath

That's how forgettable they are.
_________________
    FEAR:
Yet hearken well, aspirant bold!
I, tho' a stranger, but whilom friend,
Hold the odds against thee now.
Straightly be adjured, witling:-
- The Finding of the Gnosis, or, Apotheosis of an Ideal
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
Würm

Male
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2084

Thanks: 10
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts


641 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Arghule


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.


I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?
_________________
"Simony... blah blah... "

When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion.

The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Vraith
LibTard, Mr. Reliable.


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10181

Thanks: 17
Thanked 94 Times in 91 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
28156 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, peeps...Except for S.F., it took a while to really appreciate the various Giants...we've barely been introduced to these ones yet. And the circumstances have changed...not to mention if these were just like the others somebody would be sure to start a thread on "Every Giant is the same Giant."
_________________
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-------------------------------------------------------
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14284

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
14861 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
I don't know, peeps...Except for S.F., it took a while to really appreciate the various Giants...we've barely been introduced to these ones yet. And the circumstances have changed...not to mention if these were just like the others somebody would be sure to start a thread on "Every Giant is the same Giant."


Vraith makes a good point. It's been a long time since my very first reading of TWL, but I'd be willing to bet that I really didn't grow fond of Pitchwife and the rest of the Giants until I read TOT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18858

Thanks: 11
Thanked 216 Times in 199 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
43177 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

He didn't develop them as characters as well as he did the earlier Giants.

In other words, I think most of the problem lies in how well they are portrayed by the author, rather than on something related to the plot of the story.

Donaldson doesn't develop characters the way he used to. They're complex, sure. But they're not as overtly appealing as they used to be.
_________________
    FEAR:
Yet hearken well, aspirant bold!
I, tho' a stranger, but whilom friend,
Hold the odds against thee now.
Straightly be adjured, witling:-
- The Finding of the Gnosis, or, Apotheosis of an Ideal
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vraith
LibTard, Mr. Reliable.


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10181

Thanks: 17
Thanked 94 Times in 91 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
28156 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

He didn't develop them as characters as well as he did the earlier Giants.

In other words, I think most of the problem lies in how well they are portrayed by the author, rather than on something related to the plot of the story.

Donaldson doesn't develop characters the way he used to. They're complex, sure. But they're not as overtly appealing as they used to be.

Again...I don't know...it took a long time for TC to be appealing, and it used to be that the world was new for us, and that changes things [a happy, story-telling, loves just existing Giant?...instant appeal...but we're on our 15th or so now. The first ones are EASY, cuz they're NEW. Also, in the beginning, almost every character when first met is an archetype for a race or viewpoint. Also easy, in its way. But SRD, in the course of the stories, made the archetypes more individual...that's what stories DO. [for instance, I liked Mhoram, and Saltheart from the moment I met them...but it took time to love them as individuals, not just admire and/or sympathize with their nature/purpose] But there aren't any archetypes to start from left, now...they can't start simple but broad and symbolic and grow more specific...they have to start already complicated and become appealing, because the "negative space" that surrounded the world in the beginning doesn't exist anymore: It's already painted in. [kinda like real life...when you're young and hot, relationships are completely different in process from when you're semi-old, and only hot in relation to others in your age group, and kids, pets, bills, and work are sure to intrude]
_________________
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-------------------------------------------------------
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd
Würm

Male
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2084

Thanks: 10
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts


641 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Arghule


PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

He didn't develop them as characters as well as he did the earlier Giants.

In other words, I think most of the problem lies in how well they are portrayed by the author, rather than on something related to the plot of the story.

Donaldson doesn't develop characters the way he used to. They're complex, sure. But they're not as overtly appealing as they used to be.


He hasn't had time to develop them as characters. Foamfollower had little depth in LFB, that came later on. I'm saying these Last Chrons Giants are "drawn" as being more rough-hewn for a reason. The fact that they have had a tough go of it, as someone else pointed out, is consequential to how their story was written. But the reason it was written that way has to do with the exigencies faced by the very Earth itself when there is very little time left for it. This story was not written in the context of Foamfollower's or Pitchwife's, but more in the context of the First's personality. The "personality" of this story is different from the others, and the Giants reflect this. Notice that LF seems more buoyant, less serious, as if he knows his eons-long imprisonment will soon end.
_________________
"Simony... blah blah... "

When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion.

The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1878

Thanks: 5
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts


3062 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Longwrath goes..

When did he set out to look for Linden?
How much time did it take for the group to sail and enter the Land?
How long "in days" has Linden been in the Land versus Joan?

There is a possible point where he is searching for Joan and by the time he entered the Land he tuned in on Linden because she weild not only the Wild Magic but also a lot of Earthpower. She's a beacon compared to Joan, whom may be hidden and obsured.

I am finding the Swordmadien fairly refreshing. Seems the women are acting as a unit. And maybe the women are more serious than their male counterparts.

Honnigrave wasn't so jovial either in the second Chronicles.
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Thanked by: hearthrall antonicus
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> Fatal Revenant All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch