The Leprosarium and Foul's Creche

[Black Asgard]

I was thinking about the settings of LFB, and how there are many seemingly intentional similarities between Covenant's fears and the physical manifestation of these in the Secondary World.

Is Foul's Creche supposed to represent the Leprosarium? It is described as sterile and white (like a hospital). It is far removed (and to the South; I've always taken Covenant for having lived in the Northeast, by description of the surrounding farm and town) from the Land, and Covenant has to build his resolve to go there, as he does the Leprosarium.

Lord Foul for me will always be a double metaphor, at once Covenant's own self-hatred manifest, and at the same time, a personification of his leprosy. In this regard, I think that Covenant's having to go to the Creche would make sense: he has to go and face himself, and his disease.

A creche, some of you may know, is defined as " A hospital where foundlings (infant children of unknown parents) are taken in and cared for ".

A hospital. And Covenant is an alien to the Land: a foundling: "A child who has been abandoned and whose parents are unknown".
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[Vraith]

[balon!]

[Kalkin]

Interesting.

I think it would also be interesting to ponder if Foul was dumped into the Land about the same time that Covenant contracted leprosy. Covenant equals the Land; Foul equals leprosy.
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And on the Eighth Day God created Whiskey so that the Irish would not rule the Earth

[Vader]

I vaguely remember SDR commenting the idea of the RoD in the land happening when he TC's leprosy broke out in the real world "I wish I had come up with that idea". It might be the same with this leprosarium/Foul's Creche analogy.

However since the days of "New Criticism" we all know that the author never has full control over his text and thus isn't the yardstick by which interpretation of his text has to be done.
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[Kalkin]

Thank you for saying that! I don't post in Tolkien boards any more because some nitwit always says, "But in Letters..." Man, I hate that.
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"How do you say 'we're screwed' in your native tongue?" ~ John Crichton

And on the Eighth Day God created Whiskey so that the Irish would not rule the Earth

[BellTelephoneCompany]

Excellent post, and excellent point. Never thought of that before! Never thought Hile Troy was black or that TC was young during LFB either, but I can see it now after reading here for a time. These boards are an education.

[Black Asgard]

BTC,

Does TPTP describe it as green? I always remembered it being white. If not; well, good call.

You summed up what I said and put it simpler. I like that.

I'm glad this got some people thinking.
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[BellTelephoneCompany]

[Krazy Kat]

If Ridjeck Thome is the Leprosaium, would that make Revelstone the Hospital were Dr.Berensford works.
Covenant had a dream while in the boat with Foamfollower something about being lifted into the ambulance.

The Courthouse might be Mt.Thunder.

[Black Asgard]

I'm reluctant to believe that every major place in the Primary World has to have an allegory in the Secondary World. However, there might be some point to that about the hospital.

It could bear looking into.
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[Krazy Kat]

[BellTelephoneCompany]

[ninjaboy]

so.. What would be the location of the One Tree? the home of the Elohim? What about Andelain? or Revelstone? Garrotting Deep?
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[peter]

I think this is a very interesting topic, but one in which great care must be taken that you do not get drawn into making deeper and deeper associations ad infinitum until you are lost like a sailor in a foggy sea - ever seeing faint coastlines through the mist only to find them evaporating as you approach; never being able to find your way home (shades of the Unhomed there) yet never able to turn back........ [Well OK - perhaps i do get a bit carried away at times!]
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We are the Bloodguard

[Lord Foul's Breath Mint]

Along these lines, this has always stood out for me:

"Ridjeck Thome" = "Reject Home."

...which is what a leprosarium is.

[Krazy Kat]

"Ridjeck Thome" = "Reject Home" = "Reject Cure"

which would represent the illearth stone acting as the snake venom reaching Covenant's heart. an important concept in uncovering foul's nefarious designs maybe, but strip mining the chronicles may prove this to be the most reviled thread on the Watch.

i've always shied away from how the despiser was able to corrupt the birds in lfb. a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg *shudders*

[Black Asgard]

I think the Reject thing is stretching it a little. Maybe there's something to it, but I personally think that's stretching it.

I agree that overdoing it on the analysis of physical relation between the primary and secondary worlds is a bad idea. I see some interesting connections, but I'm concerned that if we overanalyze those connections, we lose the essence of the land and only gain a lazy belief in, I suppose, a fictional allegory.
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[Krazy Kat]

I have to agree with you Black Asgard, 100%.
Maybe there is something underlining the structure of the story, like a skeleton in anatomy, or girders in a building, but yes, I'm inclined to see no treasure in this hunt.

I've often thought that the illearth stone was a tool of deception and delusion. Lord Foul could use this tool to make his victim see just exactly whatever it was that he wanted them to see.
So perhaps the lower land - with Foul's Creche - is merely the Despiser's POV. This is how he turns hope to despair, love to hate, victory to defeat.

[Vraith]

Yea, it can go too far. The original thought has a lot of merit at least symbolically...it simply cannot be irrelevant that Corruption lives in a structurally perfect environment, an parallels sickness/health/structure in the "real" world.
That doesn't mean everything ties to everything.
Reminds me of an actor being interviewed about working with Hitchcock [long funny story made short] "People analyzing the meaning of sticks crossed in the road, and the car running over them and the liscence plate numbers. Cars have plates, sticks end up in roads, don't you people drive?"
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the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
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the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.