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No more problems w/Daughter of Regals, itself...WOW!
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danlo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I'm done. Now I have TONS of questions! What is Real? Was the realm an unreal breeding ground for the Real? "I went into the world to join my fellow Creatures." Huh? So there must be another world, the Real World...there are no other Creatures in the realm---this is beyond wild! This asumes that every Creature she meets controls the peace in their particular of realms or worlds Shocked and that mortal struggles are merely the catalyst for their **ahem** chrysalis. Another question why the comparision to Mordant's Need? DoR was published before MN, MN was clearly based on it! Three kingdoms, ground turned to lava, images, awakening female heroine, Kodar/Eremis, come on!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy
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danlo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile all you want lady! Very Happy My theory as to why the story stopped me twice before is this: SRD was in the process of finding a new fantasy voice and it sorta changed from TCTC to the "Mordant" voice somewhere in the middle of DoR, that change probably disoriented me. I was saying to myself in the middle 20 pages' "...who is writting this stuff?, it's not SRD..." it was making me think of G. R. R. Martin (Varys, Cersie) and Tad Williams (Pyrates, Guthwulf) at certain points--but the ending was classic SRD! Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that you changed the thread title, Danlo. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is REAL is a very interesting question, but all we get from the story is that it is something that resists contact with 'base' material but which can still affect it and that what is real can be 'imaged' by mages and then directed as they will it.

The last time I read the story I found myself wondering about real wood and real stone. If they have real stone, why isn't anybody using that? And Ryzel has a sceptre of real wood, but he doesn't use real wood himself.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryzel wrote:
I remember being really disappointed by Tehanu when I read it. Possibly because I had such high hopes for the book.

Now that I have read "Tales from Earthsea" and "The Other Wind" I am seriously considering going back to Tehanu and rereading it to see if it is as bad as I originally thought.


I hated Tehanu. Loved Tales. Hated The Other Wind.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning DoR,

I love this story. I've always enjoyed politics and loved watching Chrysalis use politics to manipulate her adversaries and survive. Also, even though I had read it years ago, on this reread had forgotten enough that I was still surprised in all the right places. Love an author that can surprise me. Especially even the second time I read the story <grin>.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just reread it myself. I remember enjoying it immensely decades ago when it first came out. Now I can recognize its worth, but I was really let down compared to my first reading. The problem is that the story is too short. For instance, the scene with Kodor, Damia, and Chrysalis is resolved much too easily. Spoiler:
In walks Ryzal to save the day. Yahoo. But why doesn't Kodor tell the mage that Damia is lying? For that matter, why doesn't Chrysalis? Why aren't both of these conspirators locked up so that there is no threat of the rebels at the Ascension scene?


I really like what SRD was trying to do here. I like the main character, and how she determines to face her "fate," even though that might end in death or failure. I love how she uses her wits to play the little political games with the three monarchs, and how each monarch presents a separate, distinct "puzzle" for her to solve. I love the foreshadowing. I was completely fooled the first time around. I even like that she is rather plain looking--such a contrast with the end, and a contrast with his other female lead characters.

Yet, the Ascension scene puzzles me. Spoiler:
Why were the two mages fighting? If Brodwick was trying to keep Chrysalis from the stone seat with his wind, why was Scour resisting with his dragon image? Both parties wanted to keep her from reaching the chair. So why fight?
It seems like SRD just wanted more tension, a bigger climax. It served no other purpose.

Speaking of the Ascension scene, did anyone else think of Spoiler:
the Earthblood scene in FR, with Linden putting the Staff in the EB compared to Chrysalis putting the scepter to the Stone? Donaldson really likes these combination of powerful talismans.


It also seems that the author wasn't playing fair with us. The main character had knowledge that she wasn't sharing. The surprise at the end depended on this main character keeping knowledge from us, which is the equivalent of keeping knowledge from herself, since she is presented here in 1st person. She has a hunch how all this will turn out, even the crucial element of the Spoiler:
scepter (which, if Ryzal hadn't thrown to her in the nick of time, or if she hadn't caught it in all that magical wind, the whole story would have been pointless; I hate when stories depend crucially on whimsical, trivial details like that).
Yet, she doesn't think about it once. She spends all this time worrying about her fate, but spends no time whatsoever thinking about her deepest hope? No way. People aren't like that. She would have been going over her secret hope repeatedly, clinging to it to stave off fear. What is lacking here is the type of foreshadowing that Donaldson has later learned to achieve with Linden Avery in the second half of Fatal Revenant: putting clues to her final intentions right there in your face, but still keeping it hidden until the end.

I like this story as a study of SRD's writing. There is certainly some Terisa Morgan, Linden Avery, and Morn Hyland in Chrysalis. And there's quite a bit of Nick in Kodor. And some in Sorus in Damia. It's like Donaldson was practicing for these later tales, warming up for them. But it is definitely not on par with his longer works--despite what he says about a short story being like champagne to a novel's beer. This is no higher art form. He must be drinking the wrong beer. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The definitions of what is Real (powerful, otherworldly, the ultimate source of Magic) in the world of the "Daughter of Regals" story:

Quote:
Only the ancient Creatures were Real: the Cockatrice, Basilisk, and Gorgon, the Phoenix, Wyvern and Banshee[and presumably, also the Dragon]--only the Wood of the Ash--only the Fire buried in the mountains of Nabal--only the Wind which caressed or ruined the plains of Canna.


People who were Mages could deal in images of what was Real, and shape and control them so that they were physical forces. Some Real substances, like the Wood of the Ash, could be touched by Mages, and some Real substances. like Stone, could only be touched by being that were Magic, like the abovementioned Creatures, or by beings that could be either human or Creature (the Regals).

The explanation I could find as to how humans with latent magic could release their inner Creature and become Regal comes from the passage where Chrysalis remembers what her father the Phoenix-Regal said about Ascension:

Quote:
A Regal is both human and Creature, he had said--fully human and fully Real. This state is not easily attained. It may be reached in one way, by the touch of Stone to one whose very blood and flesh are latent Magic--not merely capable of Magic, but Magic itself. In that way, the first Regal found himself. And for that reason he built the Seat, so that his heirs might be transformed publicly and formally and the realm might acknowledge them.
But this blood and flesh must be ready. It must be mature in its own way and touched by the influences it requires, or else it will not transform.
His smile was bemused and dear. It would have been well for the realm if I had Ascended when your grandmother failed. But the Magic latent in me was not ripe, and so for four years Mage Ryzel was needed to sustain the peace of the Three Kingdoms.


I think there must be another world outside of the realm of the Three Kingdoms where all these Creatures can be found, and it seems the Regals can go back and forth between the Three Kingdom realm and the world of Real Creatures at will. Ride em Cowboy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endymion9 wrote:
I've always enjoyed politics and loved watching Chrysalis use politics to manipulate her adversaries and survive.


I strongly agree with this comment that Endymion9 made years ago. Chrysalis does manage to do that a lot, and with only a few seconds of thinking at that. Sure makes her a fascinating protagonist.

When King Thone of Canna threatens to use his mage Cashon to burn his own fields to starve out the other two kingdoms if Chrysalis ascends the Seat, Chrysalis empowers Cashon to defy him. I like that she uses the example of her confidence to get Cashon to have enough nerve to blister Thone. With nothing more than her confidence and courage, she inspires Cashon to win a note of release to give to Thone's guards.

Chrysalis stops Count Thornden from attempting to rape her by inflicting him with the worry that Cashon has left the Regal manor to inflict Fire upon Thornden's army, causing him to run out in fright.

When Scour, Mage of Queen Damia of Lodan casts an image of a Dragon, Chrysalis figures out that since no Dragon has been roaming freely in the realm, somebody human has the latent ability to turn Dragon.

When she comprehends that Damia is only deceiving Kodar the rebel into thinking he's the latent Dragon, she realizes there's hope she's the Dragon and is therefore Real, and uses her inner passion to summon Ryzel to her rescue (not coincidental, when seen in that light).

That's what I like about Chrysalis, she keeps thinking fast! I guess her only mistake is letting Kodar lead her to her bedchamber. That's a moment of weakness for which I pity her, for Kodar crushes her hope as soon as they get there.

It's easy for me to root for Chrysalis, as she cares so much for the welfare of the common people. If that were not the case, Thone's threat would not have caused her to fear. Chrysalis has heart (as does Ryzel)! Which is more than one can say for Thornden, Thone, Damia, or Kodar.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Yet, the Ascension scene puzzles me.


Spoiler:
I think Mages Brodwick and Scour are not only both trying to stop Chrysalis from Ascending (since there's now fear she may actually turn into a Creature), but are trying to destroy each other's side, under the orders of their respective monarchs Thornden and Damia.
Kodar the rebel didn't get locked up because it was almost time to do the Ascension, I guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The catty exchange between Chrysalis and Damia: Twisted Evil

Quote:
"Lady," she [Damia] said sweetly, "I have seen the portraits of your line in the gallery of the manor. Surely no paint which is not itself Real can hope to portay the virility of the Regals. But the painting of your grandmother will becomes her--or so I have heard from those who knew the mother of the Phoenix-Regal. You are very like her. Your dress is so simple and charming, it displays you to perfection."
..."You flatter me, my lady," I replied, schooling myself to calmness so that I would not redden before the guests of the manor. "I have seen my grandmother's portrait often. She was altogether handsomer than I am." Then the success of my efforts gave me enough reassurance to return her compliment. "In any case, all beauty vanishes when Queen Damia appears."


Heh-heh! Love how their words to each other sound like compliments when they're actually barbs. Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's admirable about Chrysalis is that she's more concerned about the lives and safety of others, particularly the welfare of the common people of the Three Kingdoms, than she is about her own life. Her empathy and concern demonstrate her fitness to rule. The more unscrupulous try to use her principles against her, and Ryzel eventually feels shamed when he feels his principles cannot match hers.

Quote:
I did not let my gaze waver from the milky secret of his eyes. "That much is plain. Be plainer."

King Thone could not stifle a grin. "My lady, you are charming. This girlish innocence becomes you. But it does not render you fit for rule. However, you have commanded plainness, and while this evening lasts, you must be obeyed. Plainly, then, you must not attempt to ascend the Seat of the Regals. Rather, you must give way to those better suited for rule. If you do not--I speak plainly at your command--if you set even one foot on the steps to that Seat, my Mage will unleash his Fire.

"Not upon the manor," he said promptly, as if I had questioned him. "Assuredly not. That would be hazardous, as you have said. No, he will set Fire upon the fields and crops of Canna. My secret storages will be spared, but Nabal and Lodan will starve. They will starve, my lady, until they see fit to cede their crowns to me."

He made me tremble with shock and anger; but I did not show it. For an instant, I feared that I would. I had been trained and trained for such contests--but training was not experience, and I was not yet twenty-one, and until this night Mage Ryzel had always stood at my side. The peril to the realm, however, demanded better of me. Here the only question which signified was not whether I would later prove Regal, but rather whether I would be able to serve the realm now.


Quote:
Ryzel was wiser: behind my back, he sought, not to deprive me of hope, but to keep the Three Kingdoms from war if I failed.

Though it pained me to do so, I resolved that I would accept whatever he did and be content. If I were truly the daughter of Regals--in spirit if not in Magic--then I could do no less, so that the innocent of the Three Kingdoms would not be lost in an abhorrent contest for power.


Quote:
That he was dangerous was manifest. A harmless man would not have dared the things he had done this night. And how was it possible for a woman with my face to believe seriously in his desire for me? Deliberately, I placed my hand on his chest to restrain him from the door and said, "Wallin, you need not do this." Somehow, I contrived to smile as if I were not sorrowing. "Your life is too high a price for my consolation. I am content to think that perhaps you have cared for me a little. That is enough. Accept my gratitude and go, to procure what safety you can for yourself."


Quote:
Pointing his blade at my throat, he gave me a grin of pure malice. "You may scream if you wish," he said casually, "but I advise against it. You can do nothing to save your life--or to prevent our success. But if you scream, we may be forced to shed more blood than we intend. Consider what you do clearly. It will be the innocent guards and servants of the manor who will die in your name, and the outcome will not be altered."


Quote:
While I remained hesitating outside the hall, Ryzel appeared in the passage and came toward me.

I believed that he meant to hinder or challenge me. There was a grimness in his face which spoke of anger and accusation. Therefore I prepared to rebuff him despite my gratitude. My fragile hold upon myself was not a thing which I could submit to the consideration of his uncertain loyalty.

He did not speak at once, however. Taking my arm, he steered me a few paces from the door, so that we would be unheard as well as unseen. And he did not meet my gaze as he asked, "Chrysalis, are you sure of what you do?"

That question I could answer honestly. "No," I said. "I am sure only that I must make the attempt."

The effort of will which brought his eyes to mine was plain in his visage. "Then trust me," he bread, not in demand, but in appeal. "I have become a cause of shame to myself. I will support you to the limit of my strength."

With one touch, he drove home the linchpin of my resolve. And with that touch, all my thoughts concerning him turned. A moment earlier, I had determined that I would reject him, though he had saved my life. Now I made promise to myself that I would not risk him.

"The matter is mine to hold or let drop, Mage," I said, speaking at once in kindness and severity. "Whatever the outcome, the realm will have need of you. Do not intervene here. Only do as I command you--and stand aside. That will suffice for me."

His gaze sharpened; he regarded me as if he were unsure of what I had become. Then he turned his head aside, so that I would not see how he took my words. "As you will, my lady," he said. His frown was black and lost--the ire of a man who had been denied restitution for his faults. But I said nothing to ease him. Only by refusing his service could I hope to save him if I failed.


Chrysalis is a great character, and I like that she's made to be an ordinary-looking person rather than some beautiful heroine. That was a bold move on SRD's part!
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