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Kevin's 7 Wards
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Kevin's 7 Wards Reply with quote

So, if I remember correctly, only the 1st, the 2nd, the 4th and the 7th have been found, correct? Or am I forgetting any? Sorry if this is stupid, because I'm forgetting something, it's been 10 years since I've read the first two Chronicles, and I'm listening to the First Chronicle now (Up to Ch 15 or 16 of TIW, Amok has just revealed he's the 7th)

So, if I'm not forgetting anything, will we see these other Wards come to light in the last two books? Would they make any difference at this point?

I chose to put the thread in this Forum, in case it reveals something after the first two CHronicles.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They found the fourth ward? Surprised

I don't know...there'd have to be something very important in the other Wards to warrant a search for them... and even then, I'm not sure they could find them without the wards that had all ready been found which are sure to have been lost and/or destroyed.

Spoiler:
Then again, maybe the Masters have all ready found them and have them hidden deep withing Revelstone Razz

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm...it seems to me that finding the other wards would be pretty usless.
The thing is, the wards for the most part aren't objects, they're teachings that have to be studied/mastered, or they don't work right. And who around would have the time and background to learn it all?
And I have a feeling that most of that knowledge would be fairly insignificant compared to the powers arrayed in the world now.
I could easily be wrong, I just intuitively don't think I am.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wards certainly won't show up unless there's a reason integral to the story for why they are useful. I can't think of many such reasons. The Lords are gone, and before they were gone they had abandoned Kevin's Ward-plan for their own path.

One reason that they might be useful is if they contain something that could help fight the Viles or the Demondim or something. But even then, there would have to be a reason to suspect that they did.

Possibly, possibly, there might be something about the krill that they need to know about.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always wondered if the krill was the Sixth ward, like Amok was the Seventh? Or simply that something in the Sixth ward would have allowed the Lords to use the krill to the same effect, as the trigger for Amok?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:
I always wondered if the krill was the Sixth ward, like Amok was the Seventh? Or simply that something in the Sixth ward would have allowed the Lords to use the krill to the same effect, as the trigger for Amok?

The second. Mastering the 6th would allow you to wake the krill, waking the krill summoned Amok [IIRC]
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're correct. And I agree, the other Wards won't show up unless something in them is relevant to an issue that needs solving - krill, Viles, Worm, or whatever.

And as far as the Viles go, I suspect the Harrow knows exactly how to deal with them. Whether or not that helps or hinders all things ending, remains to be seen.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In The Illearth War was wrote:
"I felt the sign of readiness. The krill of Loric came to life. That is the appointed word. I answer as I was made to do."

Amok doesn't mention the sixth Ward, nor does anyone else. Knowing that Amok is the Seventh Ward, and knowing how Kevin set up the Wards, his preconditions sound like they should follow from the Sixth Ward.

But, as Amok eventually reveals, he has some lattitude. Mastery of the Sixth Ward isn't an absolute requisite for his preconditions. Therefore, mastery of the Sixth ward isn't absolutely requisite to the Seventh.

What we don't know, because it is never said, is whether mastery of the Sixth Ward is sufficient in and of itself to awaken the krill. It may be that power-unlocking-passion is the only real requirement. And the lore of the Sixth Ward is only one means among many to discover that passion. It could be that someone could master the Sixth Ward but, lacking the extremity of danger, never finds the passion required.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 7th Wards were eventually found. Check out "Soothtell" in TWL.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relayer wrote:

And as far as the Viles go, I suspect the Harrow knows exactly how to deal with them. Whether or not that helps or hinders all things ending, remains to be seen.


I wonder. Unlike the Demondim and urViles the Viles were not physically created. So the Harrow's knowledge might be useless against the Viles.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the world is "rebooted", like I suspect, those Wards are going to come in might handy for the survivors.
And if the world is at last free from Despite and the Ravers then the threat of any RoD from it's use might also be eliminated.
Remember if it wasn't for those 4 bad guys the bliss that Kevin had established might be still going on today.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:

But, as Amok eventually reveals, he has some lattitude. Mastery of the Sixth Ward isn't an absolute requisite for his preconditions. Therefore, mastery of the Sixth ward isn't absolutely requisite to the Seventh.

What we don't know, because it is never said, is whether mastery of the Sixth Ward is sufficient in and of itself to awaken the krill. It may be that power-unlocking-passion is the only real requirement. And the lore of the Sixth Ward is only one means among many to discover that passion. It could be that someone could master the Sixth Ward but, lacking the extremity of danger, never finds the passion required.


Yea, we don't know. The rule-breaking white gold awakened it [but TC's will/passion enabled it]...and I always wondered: if TC hadn't wakened it first, would Mhoram's revelation have enabled him to awaken it on his own later?
The only thing that seems certain is that Amok had no choice until it was awakened, but once it was he had options.

And that's a good question HLT...without beings like those corrupting/manipulating/horrifying, would anyone find enough passion and hate and desperation in themselves to rend the world? So far, desecration has always been connected with beings from outside the natural world.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
The Wards certainly won't show up unless there's a reason integral to the story for why they are useful. I can't think of many such reasons.

I don't think that's necessarily true. The Clave had of couple of Wards stored away in the Aumbrie, but no important developments ever came of them. Unless SRD was deliberately "sowing the seeds" for the Last Chronicles back then, in which case those Wards might make a reappearance...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
The Wards certainly won't show up unless there's a reason integral to the story for why they are useful. I can't think of many such reasons.

I don't think that's necessarily true. The Clave had of couple of Wards stored away in the Aumbrie, but no important developments ever came of them. Unless SRD was deliberately "sowing the seeds" for the Last Chronicles back then, in which case those Wards might make a reappearance...

Fair point. There may be something to that.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Elohim could be holding a Ward. The Wurd of the Earth.

They might have been waiting for someone to ask for it instead of being asked how to unlock the location of the One Tree. Amok was a bit Elohimish.
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLT,

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
When the world is "rebooted", like I suspect, those Wards are going to come in might handy for the survivors.
And if the world is at last free from Despite and the Ravers then the threat of any RoD from it's use might also be eliminated.
Remember if it wasn't for those 4 bad guys the bliss that Kevin had established might be still going on today.


You are assuming that a rebooted world will be something like the Land we know. There is no guarantee of that.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seven Wards....Seven Words (of power)............coincidence?
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
I believe the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 7th Wards were eventually found. Check out "Soothtell" in TWL.


Basically right.

The First Ward was kept by the Giants and handed back to the people of the Land when they returned after the Ritual of Desecration.

The Second Ward was found in Mount Thunder in LFB.

Akkasri tells Covenant in TWL (I think in one of the chapters just prior to "Soothtell") that the Council of Lords found the Third Ward.

And we know that Amok was the Seventh Ward.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cant remember which ward it was but the woodhelvinen were studing it. they used it because it was based on the earthpower of wood. if the giants had the first, it might stand to reason that ward was earthpower of stone. if both of these are true SRD might make linden's next quest after FR to master the wards for the power she needs. we know she is talented and tooled but the lore is what she lacks at this point.....trying not to give spoilers here
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibbon na-Mhoram answered Covenant's question about the Wards:

Covenant: "Why don't you USE it? [Kevin's Lore]"

Gibbon: "It is lore for that which no longer exists. It has no value under the Sunbane."

The Wards were for lore that predated the Sunbane and didn't anticipate the breaking of the Laws of Life and Death. Also, it was stated in The Illearth War that they were written in the "language of the Old Lords" that required translating (PLOT HOLE: If the Old Lords had a different language how did Linden, Roger, et al communicate with Berek and his troops?)

Bottom line IMO is that the Wards were a plot device that has run its course, and we won't be seeing any more of them.
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