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peter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't as yet HC - I'm continually fighting to keep up with my reading and aquire books faster than my ability [or available time] to consume them. I have however secured a copy of 'Gardens of the Moon' and perhaps now would be a good time to engage in a bit of fantasy [beyond that which my normal day to day thinking entails Wink] prior to the iminant release of TLD. I will indeed let you know my thoughts before long and it will be interesting to juxtapose the two readings as foils for each other.

[I had intended to read the book on holiday in Canada - alas that holiday was cancelled a matter of days prior to departure due to airline company failings, and in the heat/tumult of sorting that out plans went awry. We did re-book for five days in Abu-Dhabi, but I spent most of that time floating [asleep, but under my wife's watchfull eye] in the hot waters of the Arabian peninsula Laughing Thanks for reminding me about the Erikson books - I'll get to them indeed now. Hope all is going well in your world.]
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
Thanks for reminding me about the Erikson books - I'll get to them indeed now. Hope all is going well in your world.


No problem! As for my world, no trips to Abu Dhabi...but I do live in Canada so I get to "vacation" here 24/7! Very Happy

As for real vacations, I'm afraid a week in rural Connecticut is the most glamorous I can afford right now! lol
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same boat exactly here HC! Last year was I think the last foreign venture untill I win the lottery or my boss doubles my wages to meet rising costs! This year it's rural SW England [but boy have I chosen some nice 'restaurants with rooms'] Rural Conneticutt sounds just like it would hit the spot for me too! Smile Have a good one when it happens and I'll re-post when I get into the Erikson.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am half-way through 'Gardens of the Moon'. Woah! You need a memory like a steel trap to take all this on board - but it's good! The reviewer who likened it to hanging on to the belly of a flying Dragon by your fingernails got it as close to correct as it gets; it's all I can do to keep the plot [almost] under my belt - and thats with only constant re-readings of earlier bits and use of the glossary's etc! I think this thing is just going to get bigger and bigger and whether I'll be 'on-board' for the full 10 novel trip is a thing I'll wait to decide upon untill the end of vol1. I'm hoping for a move away from deep political intrigue toward inclusion of a bit more standard fantasy fare at some point - but I suspect this might not occur. It won't be a problem if the politics becomes more managable as the novel/s progress, but at the moment my general confusion is at a high peak and enjoying it as I am, I would doubt my ability to sustain it over 10 books. Let's wait and see though. I'll post again toward the end.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
Am half-way through 'Gardens of the Moon'. Woah! You need a memory like a steel trap to take all this on board - but it's good! The reviewer who likened it to hanging on to the belly of a flying Dragon by your fingernails got it as close to correct as it gets; it's all I can do to keep the plot [almost] under my belt - and thats with only constant re-readings of earlier bits and use of the glossary's etc! I think this thing is just going to get bigger and bigger and whether I'll be 'on-board' for the full 10 novel trip is a thing I'll wait to decide upon untill the end of vol1. I'm hoping for a move away from deep political intrigue toward inclusion of a bit more standard fantasy fare at some point - but I suspect this might not occur. It won't be a problem if the politics becomes more managable as the novel/s progress, but at the moment my general confusion is at a high peak and enjoying it as I am, I would doubt my ability to sustain it over 10 books. Let's wait and see though. I'll post again toward the end.


Definitely don't give up until after you read the second book. The first is by far the most confusing and weakest writing. Ten year gap between the two, and it shows.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Cam, I read about that gap; some errors of 'continuity' snuck in as well I believe. But fair advice re continuing and given that I can detect good potential for a deep and involving reading experience, advice I shall heed.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a good series, tending towards greatness, but personally I didn't care for some of his choices near the end, plot-and-character wise. Still, I'd encourage you to stick with it.

My favorite bit of writing he did is the intro section to Toll The Hounds.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
Cail - [just in case you keep an eye on this topic] - Have you read AATE yet? Just re-read your original post here and wondered whether you had decided to continue with the 3rd Chrons or not, and if so what your take on the 3rd book was. [Sorry if you've spoken elsewhere on this - I'm not very good at hunting stuff out here.] We're coming to the end of the road what with TLD but a few short weeks away and I wonder if this influences your position on continuing at all. Like you, the third series didn't do it for me, but I have stuck with it [possibly out of a combination of desparation and bloody-mindedness], and now the end-game approaches I'm looking forward to getting it done. I don't know If TLD can pull off a master-stroke where [in my view] the other 3 have failed - but SRD is a master at his art and anything has to be possible!
I haven't. I started it, got a couple hundred pages into it, realized it was awful, and put it down. That was about 2-1/2 years ago, and I have no desire to pick it back up, nor do I have any desire to read TLD. I'd have to re-read FR and Runes in order to refresh my memory, and I can't see suffering through those again.

After trying to read Mirror of Her Dreams and a couple of the detective books, I'm convinced that the 1st & 2nd Chrons, as well as the Gap books are the flukes.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:

After trying to read Mirror of Her Dreams and a couple of the detective books, I'm convinced that the 1st & 2nd Chrons, as well as the Gap books are the flukes.


Wow...couldn't disagree with you more.

SRD's writing style is remarkably consistent. I've enjoyed everything the man has ever written, whether Covenant, Mordant, Axbrewder, Gap, the short stories, everything.

I have no idea how someone could like the Covenant books and reject his other writings. For me, he's one of those authors who you either love or hate, not pick and choose books or series.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After trying to read Mirror of Her Dreams and a couple of the detective books, I'm convinced that the 1st & 2nd Chrons, as well as the Gap books are the flukes.


Eleven books is rather a lot of flukes, don't you think?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to join the parade of those diverging from Cail's opinion. Hopefully this is a safe thing to do this far from the Tank...

Teasing aside, one has to recognize that SRD consistently starts series in ways that challenge the reader and chase off many...but sticking with it consistently pays off.

The 1st and even the 2nd Chrons can be rough going, but all of it lead up to amazing climaxes. So it is with Mordant and with the Gap. So it is with the Last Chrons.

Take it from someone who has already read TLD. It is all worth it. I have always said Trust SRD...and that trust is amply justified with what he has done in the last volume of the series.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savor Dam wrote:
I have to join the parade of those diverging from Cail's opinion. Hopefully this is a safe thing to do this far from the Tank...

Teasing aside, one has to recognize that SRD consistently starts series in ways that challenge the reader and chase off many...but sticking with it consistently pays off.

The 1st and even the 2nd Chrons can be rough going, but all of it lead up to amazing climaxes. So it is with Mordant and with the Gap. So it is with the Last Chrons.

Take it from someone who has already read TLD. It is all worth it. I have always said Trust SRD...and that trust is amply justified with what he has done in the last volume of the series.

RAFO!
Sorry, I'm not interested in suffering through hundreds of pages of dross to get to the payoff.

LFB, TWL, and TRS may have been challenging, but there's a story in all of them. Things happen, and the story moves forward. Both RotE and FR, as well as MoHD and whatever detective book I started have nothing interesting happening. There's no progression whatsoever, just Linden talking to herself. Oh, and time travel. It's like someone combined the back issues of Psychology Today with the Xanth novels.

I've read 2-1/2 of these LC books, and there wasn't a single moment that held a candle to the Celebration of Spring, the caamora, Tull's tale, the escape from the Sandhold, or pretty much the entirety of TPtP. What we got instead was hundreds of pages of internal whining. It's like nothing but outtakes from the worst parts of TOT. Oh, and time travel.

If Donaldson can't captivate a fan in 1,400+ pages, the problem isn't the fan's. Donaldson chose to make Linden the focus of the story. I have no interest in her whatsoever.

More to the point, I don't care about any of these characters, and I certainly don't' want to spend hundreds of pages reading about their doubts and insecurities. Seriously, we got to understand Bannor, Pitchwife, and Foamy - and even minor characters like Korik, Borilar, and Trell - without having to suffer through chapter after chapter of internal dialog.

It's a different style of writing, and I don't care for it. It's Donaldson telling us what he wants us to get, rather than using the characters to act out the story. The characters in the LC are secondary to whatever point Donaldson's trying to make. That's a pity, because the man has proven he can create and write for amazing characters.

Oh, and time travel. The cheapest cheat in sci-fi/fantasy.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've all spent a lot of time talking about this issue, but given the fact that many of us are doing a Grand Reread, it's probably the best time for comparisons. We're not talking about feelings of nostalgia, memories of fond childhood experiences, and the imaginary failure of anything new to live up to that exaggerated memory. I can say with recently refreshed memory that the 1st and 2nd Chronicles were orders of magnitude better than the Last Chronicles. Sure, that's a matter of opinion, but it's not a matter of opinion to note that they are very different. Even Donaldson admits that his style has changed somewhat. Nothing wrong with that, in itself. Change is great. But to say that he has been consistent in the face of this drastic change is an untenable position, in my opinion.

My experience in the reread has been that every book got better until White Gold Wielder. Sure, the ending of WGW is awesome (if you ignore the massive deus ex machina to get there), but the rest of the very long book only has one other scene worth reading, imo. No, not the Banefire (which is not really shown; it's "off-screen"), but the Gibbon-raver showdown. That was cool. However, hundreds of pages of riding on sleds and fighting dubious ice creatures was boring.

My point is that our perception of Donaldson's stories always paying off with the last volume isn't necessarily true. I don't doubt Savor Dam's claims, and I have high hopes for TLD. But I agree with Cail that a payoff in the end can't redeem 1500+ pages of disappointing material. It has been a freakin' chore to get through Runes and FR. Actually, it's really only a problem with the 2nd half of each book. The 1st half of Runes has a cool opening, a decent reintroduction to the Land, but then fizzles out with a pitiful Staff Quest. Given that we've seen this done before in the very first book--done much better--it's disappointing that we're given a substandard repeat. Time travel can't rescue this storyline.

Then the 1st half of FR is brilliant. This is the only time in the LC that I thought it was up to the standards of the past (heh).

While the writing is considerably better, I think the story gets lost in the writing. AATE is just an exercise in excess. A bloated carcass of a story.

I agree with Cail that very few of the characters are worth learning about (not that we ever learn much about Mahtiir, Bhapa, Phani, Liand, etc.). However, I like Linden and don't mind her psychodrama. Her quest for her son doesn't bother me as much this time around. But everyone else is a plot device. Especially Anele, the Masters, and the Insequent.

I disagree with Cail about Mordant's Need. I thought that was a great story with amazing characters.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
I haven't. I started it, got a couple hundred pages into it, realized it was awful, and put it down.


I didn't know where to post what I wanted to say but this thread and reply to this quote is where I am going to start. I held off the LC till TLD was released. ROTE was so-so. The first half of FR was great. The second half was blah. The first 80% of AATE was by far the worst writing SRD has ever written. Really really terrible. I decided I was this far in and wasn't going to give up though I will admit that I started skimming some. I don't blame you for quitting. Then bam, the last 20% (Spoiler:
after they split up
) was really good again.

First Esmer is a pure plot device and makes no sense whatsoever. I don't get his motivations. Can't stand him. Anele wasn't much better. I think the story could have been written without either one of them.

My problems were the whining/introspection got way too excessive with nothing happening. Hell, I was with The Harrow who every 20 pages would say something to the effect of "let's just do something already".

The Spoiler:
Lost Deep
part was okay, but then Spoiler:
SHE
appeared out of nowhere and there was the never ending chase. After that, they were back to sitting around doing nothing - just in a different location.

SRD decides to get rid of all the characters I wanted to learn more about Spoiler:
The Harrow, The Ardent, Liand
except for Spoiler:
TC and Stave
. The real sad thing is that I was more invested in The Harrow's horse than any of the Giants, the Humbled or the Cords.

Even though the last bit was really enjoyable, I still feel like we have way too many enemies on the board. And has Spoiler:
Lord Foul
done anything?

It's almost like someone was doing a bad SRD impersonation for the most of the book and then he took over near the end. Hopefully, the quality of the end of AATE goes over to the TLD.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Last Chronicles were a decent read but I didnt feel the emotional attachment this time.

By the end of the First Chronicles I had fallen in Love with this imaginary place called the Land. It became dear to me.

Then came the Second Chronicles where the over-riding theme was "How do you hurt someone who has lost everything? Give him back something broken". You hurt with TC as he discovered the Land was not what it was but there were things that gave you hope that the Land as it had been known could be recovered. Finding that the Haruchai and the Giants had not forgotten the Land nor had they forgotten TC was a gladness. The last Chronicles were able to evoke emotions for me of happiness, sadness, anger.. etc etc

The Last Chronicles gave me little to 'feel' for. The Giants were nameless faces throughout the books. The 'people' of the Land were not really a part of the book at all. I didnt 'know' this new Land or its peoples. Even when the 'dead' visited this time, they seemed to have their own agenda and I didnt get the connection with them as I did when the dead visited TC in Andelain.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm kind of there with you, Soulbiter.

I'm having a hard time getting through TLD, to be honest. It just isn't grabbing me like the First and Second Chronicles books did; I couldn't put those down till I was through, which is so not the case with this series.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoiler:
The Last Dark is good -- very good. Lots of great things going on. Lots of real highs that TC and LA experience, even when everything they know about The Land is falling apart. Great book, and great ending to a Great 10-book series.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please refrain from TLD spoilers in this forum. OhYeah, I've given you access to TLD forum, and you may visit and post your comments there.
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