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AATE, Part 2, Chapter 1: Those Who Endure

 
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danlo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: AATE, Part 2, Chapter 1: Those Who Endure Reply with quote

Holding Jenn against him, danlo sat leaning in a wrought iron chair next to a small table with a copy of Against All Things Ending upon it curiously open to: Those Who Endure. His mind was full of gratitude as his innate claustrophobia could never have enabled him to handle the deluge, skurj and vitrim soaked madness of dissecting She Who Must Not be Named deep in the bowels of Gravin Threndor. It was Jenn who had restored him to common Watcher after incalculable years of imprisonment in the Arch of Administration, and now he sat pondering his analysis dumb and numb and not knowing where to turn.

For some reason danlo's splintered and dessicated mind reeled him back to an ancient chapter he once spoke of in this forum: Hints in The Runes of the Earth where he remarked that the Creator's descriptions of the topology and geologic formations of the Verge of Wandering were remarkable and highly detailed as he had never really heard of the Creator venturing out into his own world. And, here, wherever he was, wherever the silly fat man with the ribbons had deposited this hodgepodge of miscreants, Giants, Humbled, Ramen and so forth, was incredibly well detailed, as well.

As Bloodguard Bob removed Jenn from his embrace and tried to awaken her from her creepy/crawly hangover danlo's thoughts turned to water. "Hellfire!" he muttered, "I've been at this coffeehouse too dam long, and after this third cup I'm completely dehydrated!" Water it's all about water--The Insequent had scryed that the Chosen's fate was intermingled with water, the skurj had be consummed by torrents of water the Lurker's reach was limited by water and everybody passed out on the redbrick of this sidewalk from partying until they puked was in dire need of water.

Razz OK that was fun, better than making some lame disclaimer and begging Wayfriend or someone else to come in and rescue me. In a way I wanted to do this chapter, in a way I had, as moderator, to come in and fill . So: Ardent drops everyone somewhere in the lower land southeast of Landsdrop and Mt Thunder where it would take time for the company's scores of enemies to reach them so at least they can recoup. Linden can't wake up, everybody else slowly begins to wake up only to find they have no food or water. Mahrtiir send his Cords out in search of water and when they finally return from finding a non-polluted stream they contrive a means of beginning water back to everyone using the Giant's armor as vessels. Stone and Sea! Everything in the chapter is about rock and water!

I have to take off right now to pick up my foster boy at school, suffice to say, right now, that we, sort of, find ourselves back in the open air (albeit rather grim circumstances) with the echoes of the multiheaded SWMNBN screaming in our brains, Covenant listing the unconscious Linden's accomplishments, caesures abounding on the lower Land, the Ardent explaining the Insequent's visionary dead-end, how his pride and naivette helped bring about the Harrow's demise and that now, at the ends of his days, he must summon what little strength he has left to disappear in order to reappear...Huh?
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danlo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not done yet--- but, for now, I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from the chapter, if not one of my favorite quotes from the book. After Covenant gets his bearings, accounts for the exhausted company, recounts Linden's exhausted state and questions the Ardent's motives Mahrtiir informs him that he has sent his Cords off to search for water and senses that a caesure is moving to the south. Mahrtiir then rips into Covenant about sacrificing Elena to SWMNBN and Covenant indicates that he isn't done with the bane or Elena for that matter. Branl recounts Elena's pass misdeeds and her own responsibilities and, to some degree makes Mahrtiir see reason.

Much of Mahrtiir's anger towards Covenant is due to his blindness and helplessness, but Covenant knows Mahrtiir still has a very important role to play, he indicated as much to him above Revelstone before Linden incarnated him, and he wants to encourage him now-to let him know what it was, but his frayed memories do not allow it, still that's a good thing,

Quote:
But the knowledge would shape his decisions, affect everything about him. Directly or indirectly, it would change the whole company. And Covenant would be responsible for the change. Linden and her friends would be guided by insights which they should not have been able to glean, except by their own efforts. In effect they would no longer be free.

But Covenant had been spared by his impose mortality, for good or ill. He was in no danger of saying too much---

Hellfire, he muttered in silence. No wonder only people like roger and creatures like the croyel wanted to be gods. The sheer impotence of that state would appall a chunk of basalt---if the basalt happened to care about anything except itself. Absolute power was as bad as powerlessness for anybody who valued someone else's peace or happiness or even survival. The Creator could only make or destroy worlds: he could not rule them, nurture them, assist them. He was simply too strong to express himself with the constraints of Time.

By that standard, forgetfulness was Covenant's only real hope. No matter how badly he wanted to remember, he needed his specific form of ignorance; absolutely required it. Nothing less would prevent him from violating the necessity of freedom.


I don't know why, but what I highlighted just cracks me up. There's tons more to explore in this chapter especially the company's fate and the Insequent's true design. But wow, the whole Elena thing had me going back to the last dissection, jumping back and forth to TIE, past dissections of The Power that Preserves and falling asleep while reading Collusus last night. Collusus really IS an extraordinary chapter with Ravers in Ramen form, Bannor and Salty frozen, Triock and Elena Foul-Wife's confrontation with TC. I always forget that chapter for some odd reason even though the cover of the Del Rey paperback depicts it. Too bad the incredible Lord Mhoram's Victory overshadows it so much.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Danlo,

Funny, I remember that very line jumping out at me too. I also remember being very interested in what Donaldson had to say in this chapter about knowledge, time and action. (Well, not just in this chapter, given 'the Necessity of Freedom' is a constant theme in the Chronicles.)

For me, it's not 'just' a bad case of 'non-interference' that TC is suffering from, but a severe dose of 'dimensional incompatibility'. The sheer vastness of his experience and learning during thousands of years in the Arch cannot, like himself, be condensed into linear language or action. I think SRD does a great job in portraying the frustrating effects of this; the way 3d-TC appears a little 'loopy' to his companions and the way he falls in and out of 3d-lucidity.

I found it very easy to resonate with these themes of time and knowledge, and also appreciated Donaldson's exploration of the weight of decision-making. It's funny how as kids, we're taught that knowledge is power, that it's a good and admirable thing to learn as much as you can. I think it is, but I also think we gloss over the difficulties, particularly when it comes to being an adult in a constantly-accelerating world where simplicity and certainty are the bedfellows of news, politics and religion.

I often feel an unpleasant combination of impotence and frustration when listening to news or political debate, particularly when it comes to statements of certainty that involve prejudice and the imposition of power over others. Nausea and sadness settle in my stomach and sometimes beautiful images of chaos float through my mind. Every day, we humans chop complexity up into manageable lumps and put infinity into containers so we can carry it around with us. I know this is necessary in order for us to live our lives - silence and its sister, inaction, may well represent reality but they don't do the grocery shopping! - still sometimes I wish we'd remind ourselves we did chop something up!

Anyway, I digress. Believe it or not, my intention was merely to pop in and say, 'Yo Danlo, right on with the rock thing.' Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SdS wrote:
we humans chop complexity up into manageable lumps and put infinity into containers so we can carry it around with us


You should be an author Shaun! I love your manipulation of words and am seriously tempted to use that line as my new signature. Also, thanks for keeping me company as I continue, as I've named it on a KW group on facebook, 'the world's most massive and incoherent dissection'. Razz

I'm tring like hellfire to approach Those Who Endure from as many angles as possible and it's tough. Aside from the Insequent's intent and TC's head it's pretty straightforward. OK for general recap sake:

Boom--book two of AATE, this big old company has somehow escaped the horrors of the Lost Deep and is lying around passed out trying, somehow, to recover. The humbled, Stave and Mahrtiir are standing Watch while the Cords are roused and everyone else sleeps. Covenant and Mahrtiir don't seem to care about sleep, Covenant's new found mortality and mission and Mahtriir's fustration and emnity don't allow it. The Ardent, who plopped them here in this hot, unforgiving scrap of Lower Land is unconscious as well. OK they're alive, as are other debatable things such as : Jeremiah and the croyel stuck to his throat. And the terrors, disassociation, guilt, ect...going on in Linden's wiped out pretty head are enough to fill pages. Somehow out of this lifeless rubble they have to shake themselves back to reality, find sustenance, renewed purpose and solider on.

But LOOK! We're now 1 and 1/2 books away from the shattering conclusion of this fantastic 10 series! So let's get EXCITED!!!!

What's up next for me? Strictures of the Insequent, more on the Ardent's purpose and doom (?) More water, but no food...and DAM I never knew the Haruchai were that strong!! Those giant stone-armor carapaces filled with water must, as Mahtriir tried to indicate, weigh a ton! Feel free in the meantime to broach some other aspect of the chapter.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my fourth and final part; I figured if I was four days late that I needed to address this chapter for four, or more, days straight. Sure I've left some things out like Galt holding the krill to the coryel's throat, what the croyel muttered and how it sustained Jeremiah, how the company recovers and trudges to the stream and the argument of mistrust between TC, Stave and the Humbled at the end and all the detailed efforts to attempt to pull Linden out of her deep, deep, depths of despair that, to paraphrase Wayfiend two dissections ago, SWMNBN jabbed at with a pointy stick because Linden's personal wounds were so raw this left her open to another psychological rape worse than the na-Mhoram could have ever dreamed of. And, when I considered the Ardent again I realized I basically covered the main points.

THEN I got all disjointed when I tried to assess the Insequent as a whole and in particular their geas and their stricture. AND even stranger that when I googled the definition of geas Dictionary.com came up with no answer, but Wikitionary gave an example of geas' usage by quoting a sentence from The Wounded Land p. 162! Shocked then went on to define it as "enchantment, sorcery", but wasn't it really used, in the Harrow's case, as insurance or restriction? Dictionary.com defines stricture as "restriction" but the archiac is probably more of what SRD had in mind: "the act of enclosing or tightly binding." Then I thought about the Ardent again and said, "...wait a minute that's the exact opposite of his nature, his ribbands open, envelope and stream forth." Huh?

So did the Insequent completely screw-up by electing the Ardent for this task? Well he is, kind of the opposite of the type of leader you'd expect them to chose; acolyte, young, naive, greedy and as he alludes: responsible for the Harrow's death frozen in fear by the specter of the Demondim and their thuergies? Yet all the other Insequent were either too afraid or unwilling to assume his role...in anycase perhaps they, like the Auriference simply don't do well in abysmal enclosed spaces. So am I missing something or was it the Ardent's fear that caused the Insequent's stricture to unravel? In any case because Linden "...did something they didn't expect" (unleashing the flood with the ur-viles) she compromised their entire collective vision rendering them usless to aid the Land any futher? Or are they not completely useless? Some mysteries still seep around like: The implications of the Harrow's death and beyond, why the Ardent rate's Jeremiah's importance that much higher than the rest of the company and what, if anything, he can offer them once he returns from his judgment.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*opens I Shall Wear Midnight's Feegle Glossary*

Quote:
Geas: A very important obligation, backed up by tradition and magic. Not a bird.


Ahem. When you look at the Irish etymology entry for geas on Wiktionary, I think this gives a lot clearer image of the definition than the actual entry.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/geis#Irish

Quote:
geis

a solemn injunction, especially of a magical kind, the infringement of which led to misfortune or even death
a tabu, spell or prohibition
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes much more sense-it would not have occurred to me to look at up the Irish etymology entry. Razz I guess the fact that you responded at all means that my final entry wasn't total foolhardiness. I'm just worried about getting the right stuff covered---I, probably, over-analyze the Insequent: at one point I was listing all we have encountered or have heard about; Theomach, Vizard, Harrow, Mahdoubt, Ardent, Auriference , then attaching their different qualities and abilities and THEN trying to see how they might intertwine to form a ball held together by stricture. If not a ball, then a Jenga construct where, if you yank out the "Ardent" the whole thing falls apart.

But that, if you want to take the analogy of the Insequent's stricture as a set construct, implies that Jeremiah might be able to mess with them...I'm pretty sure we'll see the Ardent at least one more time, but what about the rest of them? Is there purpose and aid done after that? Will we ever see them again?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again Danlo,

Just wanted to drop you a line to say I've been reading and enjoying your updates, (rest assured you're not 'writing into the wind' Very Happy), but haven't contributed further because I need to re-read the chapter and don't own the book. (My first read was courtesy of the library and too long ago for me to retain the details. Heck, two days is too long ago for me to retain details Laughing)

I fear I went off-topic with my first post because I wasn't familiar enough with the chapter and don't want to do so again, especially in this place which seems full of Chronicle Scholars. (It can feel a bit intimidating contributing sometimes!)

Also wanted to say thanks for your nice remarks about my scribing. I do write. Unfortunately, my specialty is 'failing to deliver manuscripts', such that this link always hurts to watch Crying or Very sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=_dNkf6uFZIs

Anyway, great dissecting work. Carry on!

P.S. Hi Zorm. I hope you're feeling better. I believe you were Pneumonia-struck for a bit there.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm hugely interested in languages and etymology, and geas was something the meaning of which I already knew.

I also do follow and enjoy these dissections, even though I rarely contribute anything. When it comes to this chapter, however, looks like I'd also have to re-read the entire thing; I recently glanced through it while, er, hunting down details of the Giantesses' armor, but a person's memory can only hold so much. Laughing

Shaun: Thank you for asking, yes, I'm a bit better off. Still having a nasty cough, and probably'll have to wait for a fortnight or so before I can resume my (bi)weekly hikes.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorm wrote:
Shaun: Thank you for asking, yes, I'm a bit better off. Still having a nasty cough, and probably'll have to wait for a fortnight or so before I can resume my (bi)weekly hikes.


Two weeks eh? That sucks. Luckily, it's not like artists/writers go nuts without their exercise regimes. Oh... hang on.
I'll just go get a list of asylums in Finland for you.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaun das Schaf wrote:
Two weeks eh? That sucks. Luckily, it's not like artists/writers go nuts without their exercise regimes. Oh... hang on.
I'll just go get a list of asylums in Finland for you.


Laughing Laughing
Well, it's wiser to start with something lighter right now. I'm not ready to spend a whole day in a damp, cold forest no matter how beautiful the landscapes. Especially if the sky is spitting down a) icy water b) sleet c) hail d) snow or f) all of the previous in quick, alternating succession.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ Finally finding some time to sit down and do this chapter some justice. ]

danlo, thanks for starting us off, but whoa, that thing at the beginning, I hope you got that out of your system. Smile

The quote about knowledge, impotence, and basalt also caught my eye. Clearly that's one of themes that runs through all Donaldson's stories of the Land. What impressed me when I read it is this: what a marvelous thing Donaldson did when he let Covenant forget what he knew as the Arch of Time. The first time I read about that, I thought, How convenient. Covenant's amnesia seemed like merely a way to let the plot go forward with questions still unanswered. But now I see that there's a lot more that's critical about this. It's all tied up with Linden and the others and the Necessity of Freedom. And, perhaps, it's part of the Final Answer.

That bit at the end, "Covenant's only real hope," tells me that Covenant sees an outcome. What's interesting is: although it's important to the story for Covenant to have forgotten what he knew, he does remember the fact that it's important that he forget it. (If you can follow that!) Once again, I see this as confirmation that the Timewarden had a plan all along, and that being resurrected (and forgetting) was a part of the plan.

Question The second part of the book is called "Only the damned". Which refers to, "only the damned can be saved". So, the more damned things appear for Linden's intrepid Army, the greator the chance for salvation, I suppose. In a way, this title is meant to give us hope, I think.

Arrow Covenant reaffirms, in this chapter, his relationship with his ring.
In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
As soon as the Ardent had brought the company here from the Lost Deep, Covenant had claimed Linden from Stave. Neither the former Master nor any of Linden’s friends had objected when he had seated himself spread-legged against the boulder so that he could hold her, curled into herself and unconscious, against his chest. Then he had lifted the chain holding his ring over his head, and had settled it around her neck.

The Humbled had expressed their disapproval; but he told them, “I never wanted all that power. When I died, I finally succeeded at giving it away.” He had tried to surrender it several times before then, and had been refused. “I don’t want it back. Not like this.”

Covenant had vowed he would never use power again. He seems to be reaffirming this here. That, and that the ring is now Linden's ring.

It seems that Covenant is going to acheive the Final Answer without using any power at all.

Except ... that "Not like this" at the end seems to leave the door open a little bit, doesn't it?

Idea No one seems, as yet, to have touched on the the "Blame" scene in this chapter. As it can't have been thrown in for no reason, we should consider it.
In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
“The deed of her undoing was yours. Do not protest to me that you merely requested Anele’s sanity and service. I will not hear you. I grant that you did not or could not foresee what would follow.” The Manethrall seemed to bite down on each word, restraining an impulse to shout. “Still the deed was yours.”

Mahrtiir points out that Covenant is to blame for Elena's death-after-death, being fed to SWMNBN. Not for no reason: he sees it as an omen. More, he sees it as perhaps an "evil means" from which no good can be accomplished.

And Covenant agrees.

Both men are aware that the outcome of Covenant's actions could not be foreseen. And both of them, accurser and accusee, hold Covenant resposible anyway. Donaldson, here, is making sure he covers all of the readers possible objections, all potential points of view, so that the reader is convinced of his responsibility. He leaves no doubts.

But why?

This seems like a Hamako moment to me. What we learn here, I hypothesize, we will apply to something else that will happen later in the story. Donaldson readies his reasoning now, so that later, he can weild it more effectively.

Somewhere, somehow, something important will happen, and naming the responsible individual will be critical to how it develops.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
“No. Mahrtiir is right. Elena doesn’t deserve more torment. We all make choices, and none of us can guess how they’ll turn out. But we have to live with the consequences anyway. I didn’t know what would happen when I asked Anele to speak to the Dead, but that doesn’t make me any less responsible.”

“And did the Dead not choose?” countered Branl. “Did Elena Law-Breaker herself not choose?”

Covenant nodded. “They did. She did. And she paid for it. She’s paying for it right now. But that doesn’t change what I did. I asked for help. My part in this doesn’t go away just because I didn’t choose the kind of help I got.”

One other final point added here. Responsibility is not zero sum game. Others are responsible for their actions, but that does not detract from your responsibility for your actions. One doesn't preclude or diminish the other. Responsibility is not spread around, getting thinner the more it covers. Responsibility is always served to each person as much as is needed.

Exclamation I just found this funny after having recently reread the Dark Tower series.
In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
But when Branl found none, the Manethrall said unsteadily, “I cry your pardon, Timewarden. I am answered."

[...] As if he were delivering or receiving a blow, he rasped, “Master, I find that I must cry your pardon also.

Perhaps Donaldson has been reading some King between chapters.

Arrow Just need to throw out something pro-Linden here.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
Like Jeremiah in the aftermath of his maiming by fire and Despite, she had found a way to survive when every other form of continuance had become unendurable.

If anyone is seeing a weak, pathetic Linden here, think again. Her catatonia is not about her falling short, it is about the unendurability of her dilemma. "She has found a way to survive", where maybe no one else could have.

And more.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
And Covenant grasped a truth that she might not recognize, even though she had experienced it before. When she returned to herself, like a butterfly she would unfurl different strengths than those which she had possessed earlier. She would be an altered woman. Even she might not know what she had become.

Wow. Different strengths. She had experienced it before.

We need to watch Linden now, that's for sure. She had been a stone; who will she be now?

Idea This bit is curiously intriguing to me. It's when Covenant is speaking to as-yet-catatonic Linden.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
“But you won’t take credit for any of that. You’ll say you didn’t do it on your own, you had help, you couldn’t have done it alone.

“Well, I’m not going to argue with you. Of course you had help. We’ve all had help. It doesn’t diminish what you’ve done.”

What I find intriguing is that this seems to be a bookend with the "deed" argument earlier, between Covenant and Mahrtiir.

It seems to me that the notion expressed here is a corollary of the other: if one's responsibility is not diminished because others also had a part, then neither is the credit one is due.

Arrow This also sounds like Stephen King's writing.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
Water, he insisted in silence. Water was the answer. How? He did not know.

Out of the blue, the answer comes to Covenant. Convenient. When King writes this way, I take it as King not wanting to bog the story down in details. Mystical knowledge floats in, and things move ahead ... don't think about it.

Except that's so not Donaldson. Which can only mean ... this is some spark of knowledge that he had retained from his Timewardenness.

Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation This, I think, is the most critical clue we have found in a long time. I have highlighted it as I think is appropriate.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
“And I only have hands I can still use because you healed them. For that alone, I’m so grateful I don’t know how to contain it.”

Everything that he required of himself while life remained in his body depended on his ability to grip and hold.


Oh, that's fun to think about! The krill? The Staff? Of what are we speaking here?!?!?!

But ... again ... looks like Timewarden has a plan.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the distinct impression that when TC said he didn't "know" that Elena would be offered up to She, it was a bit of a lie hidden in truth. I think he didn't consciously "know" but that it was something he expected. Something perhaps buried in his Timewarden Consciousness that he accesses when he is doing his waking dream thing and doesn't quite remember when he wakes up. Do you think Mahrtiir felt he was completely answered and accepted it?

It also felt like TC was accusing himself of more than the thing with Elena when he said:
Quote:
“No. Mahrtiir is right. Elena doesn’t deserve more torment. We all make choices, and none of us can guess how they’ll turn out. But we have to live with the consequences anyway. I didn’t know what would happen when I asked Anele to speak to the Dead, but that doesn’t make me any less responsible.”


It felt like an admission of his blame in telling Linden to 'come find me' and the chain of events that led from that, too.

With Covenant not using power again, I thought he already laid that notion aside? I can't think of where, but I thought he said something about him being a different person then and that he was not opposed to it now? At any rate, he has wielded the krill and expressed his power through that already.

It was interesting the way he left the door open for re-taking the ring, though. It was a bit of a speech about not wanting it, that it belong to Linden now with a disclaimer that counteracts the entire speech at the end.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi danlo,

You covered a lot of ground with your dissection. There isn't much I could add. Except, maybe you can answer a query I have about Mahrtiir, and why Linden Avery was unable to restore his sight.

I can't recall if this has been explained previously.

Quote:
When the sun gilded his forehead, however, and warmed the begrimed bandage that still covered his eye sockets, he shrugged slightly. Stiff with disappointment, he turned to face Covenant and Linden.


It just seems to me that Mahrtiir talking to Covenant and Linden at this point may have been asking this same question.

EDIT: oops, silly me! the answer to that question was in the next chapter.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wanted to add ...

I absolutely love the way that this chapter ended.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
As soon as the water reached his biceps, and he guessed that the streambed was about to drop away, he released Linden’s legs. Clamped his hand over her mouth. Pinched her nose with his truncated fingers.

Took a deep breath and dropped with her into the darkness.

When she finally began to struggle for air, he did not let her go.
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Wow.

It reminds me of this other chapter ending.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
Pausing only to bring down the master-rukh in molten rain so that the surviving Riders would be cut off from their strength, he moved into the inferno.

That is the grace which has been given to you.

A small clear space like hope opened in his heart as he folllowed his dreams into the Banefire.

To bear what must be borne.

After a time, the blackness in him burned white.
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If anyone can point to what words in these passages make them such powerful endings, please say. I can't. I can only feel it.

Now read it this way.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
As soon as the water reached his biceps, and he guessed that the streambed was about to drop away, he released Linden’s legs. Clamped his hand over her mouth. Pinched her nose with his truncated fingers.

You will not fail, however he may assail you.

Took a deep breath and dropped with her into the darkness.

There is also love in the world.

When she finally began to struggle for air, he did not let her go.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Wanted to add ...

I absolutely love the way that this chapter ended.


it was really good, wasn't it? It is very bare and tense with imminence (did I make this word up? I mean imminently to happen) in the immediate now while holding out some prophecy for the future and totally using the groundwork of the past relations and prophesy we already know of. If the reader hadn't read the second series, would it mean so much, I wonder, to add the 'there is also love in the world' bit?

Edit: was curious if I made up a new english word.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
If anyone can point to what words in these passages make them such powerful endings, please say. I can't. I can only feel it.


I was same with this chapter.
Actually, to be honest, up until this chapter I had only been enjoying the Last Chronicles at face value. It hadn't really grabbed me on an emotional level, as have the previous Chronicles.

But my heart went out to Linden's condition, as she slept cradled in Covenant's arms; ragged, exhausted, and caked with dirt.

Funnily enough, the opening scene to the chapter reminded me of the ending scene to the Bond movie - On Her Majesty's Secret Service. I seem to remember Bond saying to the policeman that: everything's all right...really...she's only sleeping! or words to that effect.
I'm not suggesting this is intentional, for all I know Stephen Donaldson may never have watched a Bond movie. It's just a personal connexion I had.

One other thing I thought might be worth a mention is, when Covenant, Stave, and Phani, carry Linden to the river and Covenant say's something about.......I'm not getting any stronger......typical Covenant sarcasm!

I was sure I'd heard this somewhere before, and it bugged me for ages. Then I remembered where I'd read it from: Stephen Donaldson's Official Website, on the interview page.

Quote:

But if these new books scare you so badly, why are you writing them at all? Have you finally become ready?

No, I'm not ready.But I am getting older--I may not yet be as old as dirt, but dirt and I are starting to have an awful lot in common--and I finally realized three things. First, I'm probably never going to be ready. Second, at my age, being ready is probably not as important as facing my fears. And third, if I don't face my fears, I'll probably regret it for the rest of my dwindling life. So I decided that it's better to make the attempt and risk near-certain failure than to avoid the challenge and guarantee failure. After all, what's the worst that can happen? I'll blow it; everyone will know that I blew it; and my career will end with a whimper instead of a bang. On a cosmic scale, that's pretty trivial.

Linden Avery, like High Lord Mhoram before her, has a few things to say about the redemptive potential of inadequacy.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krazy Kat wrote:


Linden Avery, like High Lord Mhoram before her, has a few things to say about the redemptive potential of inadequacy.


Maybe a tenuous link


Actually, I think there's room for an interesting discussion in that...after all, inadequacy also is one of the cracks through which despair can enter.
And how does either view of it [or both together] interactSpoiler:
with the idea of the impotence of the god-like?
AND the impotence of innocence?
After all, aren't impotence and inadequacy interpenetrating? [pardon the joke, couldn't resist].

I'm not sure if the spoilered part is actually a spoiler, but I tagged it just in case.

OH...and Ananda...imminent is a word in english, means what you suggest... about to happen. To me it feels like if something is imminent it is in the space between the parts of "Right away would be good, right now better." And it carries some extra implication to me, too. Instead of plain vanilla "about to happen," it's something hinted/forwarned and also something important/powerful.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts on this particular passage tend to drift towards the elements of time - an important feature of the Last Chronicles.

SRD's writing is more drawn out like each scene is stretched to contain ideas other than high adventure. What I'm trying to say is that these scenes seem to suggest more than can be written. For instance, what if the river they are next to is actually solidified only through Linden. It's her dream, and at this moment she is lost in the abyss with She...
The river could actually be miles from where they are. Which makes some sense as the Ramen have to travel near and far to find it.

Although, I am writing this without checking the book...I could be miles off here... Laughing...as usual

reminds of the part in the earlier books when Hyrim and co. reached the Giant's lighthouse and a haruchai went up to the cuppola. It was a short paragraph that disappointed me somewhat. There should have been lots more said about that lighthouse. Haruchia Rolling Eyes
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