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Anyone here seen the "Requires... Hate" Blog
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SerScot wrote:
This is getting weirdly circular.


LOL

Links to the Watch. I like it. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion,

Murrin's right she wasn't what you say she was.

Spoiler:
Tyrion raped her and knows that he raped her along with the rest of the garrison. Even if she had been a prostitute what Tywin did would have been rape as punishment. She wasn't given the option to refuse and walk away.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SerScot wrote:
Zarathustra,

The blogger has linked to your post. Look all the way at the bottom of the comment section of this link:

http://requireshate.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/ewwww-neckbeard-cooties-the-fanboy-fallacies/#comments

This is getting weirdly circular.
Man, that wasn't entirely obvious. You're talking about the little "lol" in one of her posts? I'm glad I could make her laugh. She needs a good laugh. Glad to be of service.

There must be some software that tells people when text is copied from their blog and used elsewhere. I've never blogged, so I have no idea. But otherwise it would seem a little obsessive and paranoid to scour the Internet for people talking about you.

What is a "neckbeard," btw? She uses it like an insult to describe a certain type of person. An entirely male-centric insult, since (most) women can't grow beards. Gee, derogatory slurs with a male-centric meanings ... nah, she's not a rage-filled man-hating stereotype. Rolling Eyes

[Edit: I just talked to my college freshman son, who verified that he and his friends are familiar with the term (though they don't use it as an insult to describe a certain type of person ... his sample sentence: "Dude, you're getting a neckbeard, you need to shave that shit.") So I'm guessing this girl is in her early 20s, failed out of college (Women's Studies), or got some shitty degree (English, Sociology, Women's Studies) and now can't find work, so she spends way too much time reading fantasy books that fill her with rage, but she can't stop reading them anyway, and blames her problems on rich white straight men. Just a hunch.]
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, the LoL is the link.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, you neckbeards and your mansplaining. Anything to defend your GRITTYDARKMANRAPE CULTURE!

Zarus...aru...ur...MANSPLAINER@ wrote:
Good day, everyone


WHAT A WASTE OF VALUBELE RENEWABLE RESOURCES! YOUR WRITING IS TERIBLE! I SHOULD KNOW, I WRITE A BLOG THAT CONSISTS OF ONE-STAR AMAZON REVIEWS! YOU DON'T GET THOSE EVERYDAY, NECKBEARD1 DIEEEEEEEE!

Seriously, though, it's actually starting to get funny. Nothing like a train wreck for entertainment.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on topic, thanks for the clarifications, Murrin and Serscot!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much all blog software tracks visits and can show you what links were clicked on to reach the blog, so it's no surprise she'd see anything that links there.

By the way, can we please try not to turn this into attacks on the blogger's imagined life and character and stick to discussing what has actually been said. As with most people on the internet, we know very little about her and making assumptions is pointless.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, but since this is about the blog itself, there might be more about how it is written than the actual issues it tries to raise.

So we've pointed out a couple of things: it's not a good place for discussion, the blogger uses a 'special vocabulary' designed to empower whoevers using it, and finally, and this is key, it comes off almost as if the blogger believes there has been no progress in civil rights since the dawn of man.

Is there work to be done? Sure. But the attitude seems to imply that the 19th amendment never happened, and I think that's what goads people the most. Most people know there's work to be done, but they also know progress has been made. Not sure how the blogger feels about this matter, but the constant 'ridicule' (which, granted, you ought to know is there... it's in the name fer Crissake!) seems to indicate that the blogger believes we are still stuck in European middle ages.

Also, apparently the blogger does do reviews on books he/she likes. Has anyone read any of those?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion,

While I don't care for the way the Blogger makes her points I do think she has some good points about the way women and homosexuals are viewed by society. Men and heterosexuals are in a difficult position to actually understand what it is to be much less powerful in a given society. As such while I don't agree with all the bloggers criticisms I can see where they are coming from.

Heck, Abercrombie went on to admit the character he created for the sceen the blogger discusses at lenght was a poorly written characature.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I just quickly point out that the blogger is not American; she's Thai.

I'm from a first world, english speaking nation with close cultural and political ties to America and I still have no idea what you're talking about when you mention the 19th amendment.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murrin wrote:
Can I just quickly point out that the blogger is not American; she's Thai.

I'm from a first world, english speaking nation with close cultural and political ties to America and I still have no idea what you're talking about when you mention the 19th amendment.


Suffrage than.

One can be ignorant on finer points, but I think if you are going to champion a cause, you ought to at least know the outlines.

And what are the points? That some characters are more poorly written than others? Doesn't matter. That some (all? I can't tell) depictions of rape are wrong? How? Because it makes it glamorous (which most books I've read steer clear of)? That it is a mere plot device and as such belittles the suffering actual rape victims go through? (I'm thinking specifically of Pillars of the Earth here). She doesn't want to read about it (so it is a female blogger?)? As near as I can tell, I don't know the blogger's position. That also detracts from an actual conversation.

Can there be things wrong with depictions of rape, same-sex characters, etc. in modern fiction? Not only can there, but there are. But I honestly can not tell what the blogger believes those problems are, I just know that she apparently despises them.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murrin wrote:

By the way, can we please try not to turn this into attacks on the blogger's imagined life and character and stick to discussing what has actually been said. As with most people on the internet, we know very little about her and making assumptions is pointless.
A fair point. I don't know her. I was just relaying my "first impressions." If she wants to come here and correct my assumptions, she definitely knows where I'm at. I was trying to imagine her motivation, what drives a person to be so bitter and hateful. It's a natural thing to wonder about, and in the absence of information, speculation will often fall along lines of previous experiences and expectations. I've known girls that remind me of her, and that experience informs my opinions. She has made herself a target, willingly, enthusiastically, for heated speculations which go well beyond a discussion of texts, and into the motivations of people with whom she debates. This is a context she has created, and as such, it is part of "what has actually been said."

SerScot wrote:
Men and heterosexuals are in a difficult position to actually understand what it is to be much less powerful in a given society. As such while I don't agree with all the bloggers criticisms I can see where they are coming from.
But, if that's her point, the very thing she's criticizing is what's being depicted. The scene I read in her blog entry showed women and/or gays being treated poorly. This book is read (one must assume) by men and heterosexuals. If the social goal here is to open the eyes of men and heterosexuals into a social phenomenon which they are in a difficult positon to understand, then wouldn't depicting those phenomena be one way to foster that understanding? You can't understand something you never see or imagine. Abercrombie presents men/heterosexuals with an opportunity to contemplate these issues, rather than just pretending that they don't exist. For Abercrombie to take it a step further and openly declare within the story--THIS IS BAD--would be doing the readers' work for them. The author's hand can't be that visible without turning fiction into polemics. You can't tell people what to think in your fiction, that's just condescending. It's poor writing.

On the other hand, must works of fiction always be viewed in terms of how they're educating certain demographic categories of people with social phenomena which they're in need of understanding? If teaching men how to properly view women isn't the point of Ab's story, then why must he be judged in terms of how well he achieves this goal? Surely his failure to meet the blogger's social agenda in his writing isn't cause to deprive him of oxygen, even figuratively.

But even ignoring the hate-filled hyperbole, let's consider the implicit expectation that writing must "properly" address every social agenda of every reader--and failing to do so constitutes "contributing to the culture of X" [where X = "rape" in this instance]. No work of fiction can possibly address every social issue which a reader might bring with her as emotional baggage on the mental journeys a writer creates. Perhaps the author has different ideological goals in mind, different social/political/theological/philosophical battles intended for this space they’ve painstakenly created and mapped out for our reading pleasure, points which we risk missing by subverting their work to suit our own one-note battle cry.

It brings me full circle to the woman herself. I don't learn a damn thing about Abercrombie's writing or women's issues by reading her rants. All I see is the red-tinged filter of her own exaggerated personality, a filter so dense and distorting, we cannot possibly expect anything resembling objective treatment of the subject matter. Can anyone honestly say what her point is? What's her objection? Like Orlion, the only thing I can conclude from her rants is that she hates rape so much, that any human who dares depict it in a work of art is worthy of hate himself. Blah ... this is a personality disorder, not a social or literary point.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra,

The Blogger has deleted the post with the link.

[eta]

I was wrong. It's still there.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SerScot wrote:
Zarathustra,

The Blogger has deleted the post with the link.


You mean the post with the link to Z's post? It's still there... as of this posting Cool

Also, Murrin's post in the GRRM forum made it into the butthurt gallery... it's entitled something like "Tears of a white dude, a poor victim of racism and feminists." So jealous! Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow. That's just brilliant!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, hemroids really are pretty painful and irritating.

Wink

Orlion,

I just checked that thread. The Blogger deleted any posts made after 12/18. The link to Zarathustra was yesterday evening.

[eta]

I was looking in the wrong thread it's still there.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SerScot wrote:
Well, hemroids really are pretty painful and irritating.

Wink

Orlion,

I just checked that thread. The Blogger deleted any posts made after 12/18. The link to Zarathustra was yesterday evening.


Hmm... I'm still seeing them, I'll check later on... maybe the deletions haven't caught up to Ohio's awesome internet service yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion,

You're right. I was lookin in the wrong thread. Duh.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
... So I'm guessing this girl is in her early 20s, failed out of college (Women's Studies), or got some shitty degree (English, Sociology, Women's Studies)...

Sidetrack, but I have to protest. English is not a shitty degree. In fact, it's incredibly useful in the right hands. There are plenty of jobs out there that require people who can research large swaths of information, pulling the important bits out and synthesizing it into a usable product -- jobs that need people who know how to communicate properly and effectively (making English a great pre-law school major). The problem is, there's a lot of shitty people majoring in English who, like me, don't want to teach but don't see that there's more to it than just knowing how to read. The jobs are there; you just have to play your cards right. Those lucky or dedicated enough may even end up with a job title like "Writer-Editor" or some such.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syl, I only meant in terms of getting a job. I'd put philosophy in there, too, so I don't hold myself immune from my own criticism.
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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