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Against All Things Ending, Part 2, Chapter 7
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Effaeldm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Against All Things Ending, Part 2, Chapter 7 Reply with quote

This chapter begins in the way we should be used to – with pain, hopelessness and everyone in a situation they see no way of getting out of.

Linden feels alone among her friends, and thinks about the black flame of the Staff and about Covenant's departure.

Quote:
He had told Linden, You have other things to do, but she could not imagine what they might be.


Then her thoughts turn to Jeremiah

Quote:
now she knew how he had concealed himself. She had stood in the graveyard of his mind. In some sense, she understood how he had resisted the croyel’s torments, and the Despiser’s.

But she did not understand why Anele’s gift of Earthpower had failed to rouse her son. That mystery surpassed her. The vigor of his new theurgies was clear to every dimension of her health-sense. It should have sufficed—yet it was not enough.


Possibly not a matter of enough or not, though may be. It was already apparent that Earthpower healing may be resisted - like Anele did, and with reason.

Still, hard to say for now how similar this case is. It is likely that it is, but also it may be that Jeremiah is too stuck in his hiding, that something or someone influences him, or that there is something else in that.

Then, they decide to move, relying on the Ranyhyn. Linden rises he question about possible changes to plans due to Covenant's departure. Mahrtiir suggests a new attempt to awake Jeremiah. But Linden feels it is wrong to try to do it by possession

Quote:
The Ranyhyn warned me. They showed me how bad things can get if I insist on violating people who have the right to make their own decisions


Quote:
They had to heal themselves. My only real job was to help them feel safe so that maybe they would believe that they could risk healing themselves


This one may be particularly important, or just good on it own

Quote:
What does make sense to me is trusting the Ranyhyn


Of course it does - it's one of the things that make most sense in the whole story!

Mahrtiir says

Quote:
Then I see no cause to alter our intent. Earlier we resolved to entrust our course to the will of the Ranyhyn


Quote:
His counsel was a gift. Linden did not want to make more decisions


Again, Linden feels eager not to make any decisions herself

Everyone agrees, and the Giants are delighted to join such "folly"

Quote:
Manethrall, your words are folly. By some measure, they are madness


Which is only good and well, trying to outdo LF in thinking out everything was already proved to have similar results of the unpleasant kind

Stave calls the Ranyhyn, and they arrive. And with one for Jeremiah

Quote:
here is Khelen, young among the stallions of the herd


Interesting, his name reminds of Kelenbhrabanal

Quote:
he appeared to be waiting for some reaction from Jeremiah: some flinch of fright or hint of relaxation. But Jeremiah gave no sign of consciousness


Even a Ranyhyn didn't wake him, that may say more than everything before

The Ranyhyn agree to choose the way

Quote:
The Manethrall barked like one of the ur-viles. Then he bent low over Narunal’s neck, stroking the stallion as he whispered words in a language that sounded like nickering. Linden thought that she caught Kelenbhrabanal’s name, but the rest escaped her.


Again Kelenbhrabanal, there must be something to this almost for sure


They move the way Covenant chose. It may be that they are following him, but may be not, especially since there's no other normal way there. Linden feels wary, and Mahrtiir reminds her of trust

Quote:
The Timewarden has spoken of trust. And you have given your assent. If you now wish to recant, do so. Ask of Hyn what you will. Command her according to the dictates of your heart. I will await the outcome with interest


Quote:
Was that not why Kevin Landwaster had committed the Ritual of Desecration? He had blamed himself for the Land’s plight—and had not trusted any other power to accomplish what he could not


Quote:
the Ranyhyn could have quickened their pace safely. But they did not


This is particularly interesting, especially with the circumstances

Caesures begin to appear. Linden becomes worried for Covenant, and, as Stave describes the geography ahead, she remembers Joan from the first caesure and understands

Quote:
Covenant is going to Foul’s Creche


They remember what the Ardent said about a need for death

Linden is worried about Covenant and wants to join him, but the others persuade her that he had his reasons

Quote:
it is the word of the Unbeliever that you have a separate task to perform. If you strive to preserve him, you may thwart some greater purpose which we do not yet comprehend


She agrees, though saddened

Quote:
Trust was a bitter joke — and she had forgotten how to laugh


She tries self-mutilation, but the presence of Hyn stops her halfway

Quote:
she tried to cut from memory the inadvertent pattern of the grass stains on her jeans into the human skin of her shin and calf


An unusual storm comes, not made, but not natural. It looks like from Bhrathairealm, and is a sign the Worm is approaching

The Ranyhyn appear to be apprehensive of something, supposedly the lurker

When they stop to rest, they wake up to see that the Ranyhyn are not around and some creatures are approaching. Stavу has a description for them, and it doesn't match the skest

The cold reminds Linden of the unnatural winter Elena brought

Quote:
After High Lord Elena’s disastrous use of the Power of Command, when her spirit had been forced to serve Lord Foul, she had used Berek’s Staff of Law to inflict an unnatural winter upon the Land. Standing at the Colossus, she had scourged the Despiser’s foes with snow and ice.

In Andelain, Linden had unleashed something worse. This day’s deranged weather was only the leading edge of a far more savage storm.

Berek’s spectre had said of Lord Foul, He may be freed only by one who is compelled by rage, and contemptuous of consequence.

Had she done that? Truly? Had she already accomplished the Despiser’s release?


Doesn't feel like that. She may have been enraged at times, but can't remember a moment wen she was contemptuous of consequence

The creatures name themselves the Feroce and ask for the Staff Of Law. When they are refused, Linden falls into a hallucination

She thinks she's in the "real world" again, in the situation with Roger kidnapping Jeremiah and others, but memories keep coming up, though she ignores them. Then, she sees the grass - or blood - pattern

Quote:
The pattern—if it existed—was a map


She throws her medical bag away and comes to her senses. Turns out it was the Staff she threw away

She comes to her senses in the middle of a fight with the lurker. She sees that the lurker has the Ironhand and the Staff in his tentacles.

Quote:
She was too weak to shout. Her lungs held too much water. Stonemage, Latebirth, and the other were too embattled to hear her. Trusting herself meant trusting her friends. It meant trusting Frostheart Grueburn.
“Tell them,” she gasped. Her throat felt raw, scorched by flame, scraped by smoke. “Save Coldspray. I’ll help Stave.”


They attack and manage to wound the lurker, while Linden reaches out to the Staff

Quote:
She had fashioned it with wild magic from her own love and bereavement as much as from Vain and Findail


She burns the lurker with the flame. It withdraws and she sees everyone is unharmed

Quote:
Linden felt relief rise in her like a tide.

Relaxing at last in Grueburn’s arms, she hardly noticed that the pain of her cut shin and calf was gone


Now, to the points

Jeremiah is stuck well, and really well. The reasons for this and if it is for better or worse are unknown for now, but no humane means of even trying to restore him in sight, and Linden understands she can't violate him, perhaps he has to heal himself

Kelenbhrabanal is remembered, likely for some reasons, but almost no hints here for now

The Ranyhyn chose a particularly strange path, and go the way Covenant went for now, and a strange pace. Since they're the Ranyhyn, we have to assume there are some good reasons we don't know yet

Linden feels uneasy and it's painful and bitter for her to bring herself to trust her companions, while she's worried for Covenant. She mutilates herself, repeating the grass pattern - and, while in a hallucination, she decides it's a map

The lurker is served by someone new, not the skest. It is also interested in the Staff - is that the old hunger for Earthpower, or something different?

Linden is able to call on her Staff while it's held by the lurker and feels it's made of her emotions as much as of Vain and Findail
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your style in this Eff, [like it a whole lot, actually] almost surgical, cutting as little as possible yet getting all of it.
some particulars you hit and I wonder/hope turn to something:
Khelen and the Patriarch...the name reminder...and a parallel here: LF/Rhan require intermediary [trinity?]...the first deal couldn't be fulfilled without, it seems, the lurker to consummate/execute. Now the last is coming LF/Rhan...and Jerry. What is common/different in Jerry and Lurker? I wonder about this because, although originally I didn't buy the "Lurker killed Khelenb cuz LF couldn't himself" thing, I'm almost forced to accept it...what if the Lurker, like Jerry, was essentially a child then? [hinted at by the fact that the Rhan are afraid of it viscerally, but more ordinary beings think of it just as an annoyance early on]. In the first, LF brought the lurker, in the last the Rhany bring Jerry. [and the rhany and time...K-first bares his throat so K-last bears salvation?]

Linden, rage, contempt: yes...AFAICT, Linden is the opposite of contemptuous, cuz there is a world of difference [especially in a world like the Land, where intentions matter so much] between "caught in the crossfire" and "fuck them, they're in the way." ESPECIALLY since Linden thinks TC is the world-saver by nature, and she is just desperate for one child.

Heh...all that I suppose just shows your efficiency contrasts my blathering and mucking about in the guts.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So glad to see we have gotten back at it! Thank you, Eff. Well done indeed.

As to Vraith's question of what is different between Jeremiah and Lurker...hmmm. The obvious choice would be that Jeremiah has had no great/lasting corruption of the IllEarth stone. If memory serves, the Lurker's helpers appear to have a certain green light about them that made Linden think they were others.

Likewise, in his innocence, Jeremiah might be more maleable (to LF at least) than a creature of age with contact of the IES, who shows more self-directed desires than Jeremy.

Good questions, Vraith.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was one thing in this chapter that really bothered me- Linden's disregard and sort of abandonment of her son to other people for care. If my son had been abducted, I can't imagine not just holding his little hand all the time and making him stay very very close to me. Is it supposed to mean something or is it that the author just didn't think about it like that? He tells us she is thinking of her son often, but she doesn't do things for her son (in the immediate and personal sense).
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ananda wrote:
There was one thing in this chapter that really bothered me- Linden's disregard and sort of abandonment of her son to other people for care. If my son had been abducted, I can't imagine not just holding his little hand all the time and making him stay very very close to me. Is it supposed to mean something or is it that the author just didn't think about it like that? He tells us she is thinking of her son often, but she doesn't do things for her son (in the immediate and personal sense).


Just off the cuff, it reminds me of my relationship with my 18-year-old son. Just as I feel the need to hold his hand, I also feel his need for space between us. Now, Jeremiah is handicapped in a way my son is not, but with physical maturity (maybe even with the relative lack of emotional maturity) comes a need to separate from ones parents. Also, Linden has seen into Jeremiah's mind, and she knows that he is making choices. There is more there in his mind than meets the eye.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Effaeldm, I deeply bow to you for your service to the Watch. You've brought us back. I hope we're back for a while.

Effaeldm wrote:
Jeremiah is stuck well, and really well. The reasons for this and if it is for better or worse are unknown for now, but no humane means of even trying to restore him in sight, and Linden understands she can't violate him, perhaps he has to heal himself.

I quite agree. I think leaving him alone and not invading him is one of her wisest decisions. The Ranyhyn did warn her, and she (maybe "for once" is called for) heeds their warning.

DoctorGamgee wrote:
As to Vraith's question of what is different between Jeremiah and Lurker...hmmm. The obvious choice would be that Jeremiah has had no great/lasting corruption of the IllEarth stone. If memory serves, the Lurker's helpers appear to have a certain green light about them that made Linden think they were others.

Indeed. The prose in this section offers up plenty of reminders of how the lurker arose from the pollution of Mount Thunder and the refuse of the Viles and ur-Viles and Demondim that flowed out into the Sarangrave. It literally grew out of evil.

I don't think Jeremiah fits that description. He's been imprisoned by evil, but I don't think he's made of evil. If he were, how could we hope for his release from his prison? Linden DID go into his mind that once, and she saw that, deep inside, behind the hiding, he is still himself.

Ananda wrote:
There was one thing in this chapter that really bothered me- Linden's disregard and sort of abandonment of her son to other people for care. If my son had been abducted, I can't imagine not just holding his little hand all the time and making him stay very very close to me. Is it supposed to mean something or is it that the author just didn't think about it like that? He tells us she is thinking of her son often, but she doesn't do things for her son (in the immediate and personal sense).

I noticed this as well. I am not sure what to make of it. Because the author doesn't literally adress this point in the prose, I am tempted to think it's an unintended oversight without significance. If it were important, Donaldson would be hinting at it.

To say Linden has a lot on her mind is an understatement. In fact, she's not doing well at all. She's being driven into herself more and more. It might merely be that she has no capacity to care for Jeremiah at the moment. Or that she can't bear to be reminded of another of her many burdens.

----------------------------------------------------------

Question Did anyone else get the feeling that the Ranyhyn chosen to bear Jeremiah was especially chosen because of the honor of that position?

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
"He is cognizant—as are all of the great horses—that he offers to assume a charge both perilous and exalted."

This may explain why the name of Khelen resembles that of Kelenbhrabanal. He is a prince among the Ranyhyn - the best of their best.

Exclamation The brown and grey sky first appears here. Somehow, Linden knows it is the doings of the Worm.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
The Worm, Linden thought. Oh, God. Caesures had not filled the sky with dust and ash. Lethal forces of a different kind were starting to spread—

Exclamation Another important point in this chapter. We begin to see that the area they are heading into has something to do with the "need for death".

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
The insistence of the Ranyhyn on taking the company farther into this region of wars and slaughter and evil appeared to confirm Stave’s guess that the horses were intent on satisfying her need for death. Hers, or Jeremiah’s.

Note that, if this was the "need for death" about which the Ardent spoke, then he wasn't actually speaking about those other things that they were worried about before.

Question "The Stick of Power" -- Anyone else find this funny?

-----------------------------------------------------------

I think one of the stand-outs from this chapter is the weird goings on that includes Linden's pants and her self-mutilation.

She had been wearing those markings on her jeans for some time. But the cuts on her legs she added only recently.

And fortuitiously, it seems. Within the lurker's spell, the two ingredients seem to combine like some sort of magical potion, and produce something that she calls "a map". Not a real map, but a mental artifact which she can use to find her way. Using this "map", she finds her way out of the lurker's spell, and then she uses it to rapidly shake off her confusion and find Stave and her staff.

She cut her legs to bring clarity. The pain combined with the stains, and the result was exactly that - clarity. At the end of the chapter, we are left with the feeling that this "map" helped her climb out of her woes and pains and brought her to a more effective place.

All of which leads one to wonder.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
If she could not trust herself, she might be able to trust them.

Or the map.

It showed the way out.

Out of what? Into what? She had no idea. She could not read the map. She could only follow it.

She knew how. Do something they don’t expect. Everything else will take care of itself.

Because she had only one real weapon, one defense, and had failed to save herself, she hurled her medical bag straight into the teeth of the fire.

Everything is simpler than you make it sound.

Simpler, hell!

The "map" helped her here. Throwing the Staff was the right thing to do.

Maybe it was also what the lurker wanted. But it was the right thing to do anyway. Everything else will take care of itself.

Who knows what the lurker would have done to her if she had kept the Staff. Maybe it would have slain her, or rendered her incapable of regaining her Staff. But by throwing the Staff, she escaped the lurker's attention, and freed herself from the lurker's spell, making all else possible. And she gave the lurker nothing, because it was still hers even when not in her hands.

I think throwing her Staff away was nothing short of brilliant. And it was the "map" who helped her see that. A "map" that was made out of her pain and the Land's mark upon her.

Notice how the chapter ends.

In Against All Things Ending was wrote:
Relaxing at last in Grueburn’s arms, she hardly noticed that the pain of her cut shin and calf was gone.

Whatever it was, it is used up and gone. But signs are pointing to Linden being in a new and better place now.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those grass stains have been bugging me ever since 1984 when I first read Lord Foul's Bane. Covenant got covered with similar grass stains on the first trek through Morinmoss and then Linden got them in the Verge of Wandering.

The Land somehow marked them or gave them what they needed but other than that I am uncertain as to what those stains really are.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much thought provoking stuff in this analysis and responses. I may go on a bit here...consider it warming up due to the fact that I volunteered for the final chapter, thinking it would have a big fun/cool factor and am now praying I can do it justice when the time comes.

Doc/WF...yes, you're both addressing the parts of my wondering. Cuz I am not at all convinced the Lurker was born/made from evil...though that is possible...but, like Jerry, was touched/infested by it early on. Yet not all that flowed from Mt. Thunder was evil. Difference: Jerry had exposure to care the Lurker never did. OTOH: the Lurker, now, is old and some kind of wise...at minimum it fears the outcome the ultimate evil desires.

Ananda/WF...definitely a hmmm worthy thing...but perhaps there IS something that matters/is intentional. Way back at the beginning of these are implications that Linden knows, and knows well, that the best/most effective way of reaching/connecting with Jerry in his condition is to set an environment/situation, then to leave him the hell alone while he works through it. At first, perhaps it isn't entirely conscious/choice [though she does note for all the similarity of Jerry/Anele and self-defense]...but it is almost certainly part of her awareness/intensity/ponderings when a Ranyhyn comes to bear Jerry. She doesn't reach for/touch/tend Jerry...but she does take deep, precise, comprehensive notice of the interactions...and has obvious hopes for the outcomes.

WF...oh yes, I noticed the Khelen/Jerry situation...part of why I wondered/speculated on the Patriarch, time, and this young one.
And Stick of Power was definitely funny.

And of course the cutting...yea...you have something there, it's an interesting twist. Many "real" cutters do it for just those reasons...focus/exclusion. But it doesn't really work for them, or in the end for her...it is OTHER claims/marks that enable her to climb out...

Throwing the Staff...amazing thing, agreed. I think it might imply many things...one of them about trust, chapter title...another about one of the theme of freedom...evil/circumstances/whatever can bind/force you to hard choices. But can it, ever, strip you of what you have made, what is yours? Possibly this is LF's essential flaw: he believes that binding/forcing at particular points binds actors to the path and its end.
This, possibly, connects two statements/axioms: The necessity of freedom, and orcrest and refusal.
[Linden now has several examples of surrendering for victory, btw...Covenant/ring, herself/staff/ring.]

Ok, I guess I didn't ramble for VERY long.





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The Land somehow marked them or gave them what they needed but other than that I am uncertain as to what those stains really are.

Do we believe that the intent of the grass stains, carried on Linden's jeans since Runes, has been fulfilled?

Vraith wrote:
[Linden now has several examples of surrendering for victory, btw...Covenant/ring, herself/staff/ring.]

That's a great point. "Victory through Surrender" is indeed a common theme for the Second and the Last Chronicles.

Now Linden has given up the ring, and got it back. And she has given up the Staff, and got it back.

What's will she give up next? Jeremiah? Covenant? Herself?

Vraith wrote:
Throwing the Staff...amazing thing, agreed. I think it might imply many things...one of them about trust, chapter title...

Certainly we should have discussed the chapter title, and have not yet.

We see a lot of trust in this chapter. Everyone trusts the Ranyhyn to give them direction. Linden trusts the Ranyhyn to discourage her messing in Jeremiah's head. And Linden trusts her "map" to lead her out of the lurker's spell.

What are the implications of this trust?

One that I see is that by trusting her "map", she has also trusted herself (to do something unexpected) and she has trusted her companions (and let everything else take care of itself). Something she has been struggling with since she roused Norman.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Do we believe that the intent of the grass stains, carried on Linden's jeans since Runes, has been fulfilled?


I don't think their purpose has been completely fulfilled, no, but they certainly helped against the Lurker.

They were important enough for Caerroil Wildwood himself to comment about them, and that (to me) is the single greatest clue as to their true importance.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Those grass stains have been bugging me ever since 1984 when I first read Lord Foul's Bane. Covenant got covered with similar grass stains on the first trek through Morinmoss and then Linden got them in the Verge of Wandering.

The Land somehow marked them or gave them what they needed but other than that I am uncertain as to what those stains really are.


Here's a few ideas I have about those grass stains.

Covenant is on the quest for the Staff of Law, so there has to be a connection here with the Legend of Berek Halfhand. Maybe it was the Land, the very earth, that was reaching out to Covenant...or more precisely, the white gold ring.
Even though Covenant had been treated with the hurtloam, I'm sure it was extremely difficult for him to fully open up his sense of touch - his raw emotions and feelings. So the Land, as with the Lords etc, gently reached out to him.
So when Covenant was eventually stood on the slopes of Mount Thunder, the Land had prepared him for an almighty surge of raw Earthpower.

Perhaps even Prothal had come to understand this. He was the High Lord and it was his responsibility to find a solution to their plight.

Covenant, like Berek before him, were touched by love from the Land.



Here's another idea that's way more hairbrained, so bare with me on this one...

Something else has always bugged me in Lord Foul's Bane, and that's the mirrors. I've always thought there was something important about them, and maybe when they are connected with the grass stains, something makes a little sense.

I can only remember there being two mirrors: one was at the Waymeet with Atairan, when Covenant cleans the grit from his eyes. And the other at Manhome, when Covenant shaves off his beard.

What if the grass stains are a form of camoflauge. Not like army soldiers, more like an Indian Tiger. What if Stephen has put his face into the frame - hiding in the grass watching us go by - something like the way Alfred Hithcock did with his films...come on guys! don't laugh. I'm being serious here.

The time I saw Stephen Donaldson in my local bookshop, when he was doing the Fatal Revenant tour, he told a short story about when he was a young lad in India. It was about a time when a killer tiger was prowling their village. It had eaten a few villagers, so a team of men went out to deal with it.

He said he could always remember that awesome sight of the men returning carrying the pole on their shoulders with the tiger tied to it...

Ok, you can laugh now!


As for Linden's grass stains, all the pieces aren't in place yet. Her story is still a bit fragmented. One thing we know for sure, it's a differant story than for Covenant. Perhaps it isn't quite the Land that's whispering to her ...her fate is written in water
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, it's the Kat!

My personal thoughts on the grass stains is that they are not of any significance except as something that Linden thinks about. They aren't like Vain and have a mysterious purpose, they aren't some magical ingredient that the quest needs, and they aren't some form of communication from someone or something.

Linden's in a certain situation, she has certain problems, she's been through certain hells and come back. So there are certain things that she thinks about a lot. Being in this state, the grass stains are something that strike a cord with her thoughts. The stains, and her torn shirt.

In another more cliche novel, the protagonist might watch the sky and notice birds that fly by, because freedom is heavy on their minds. So the birds become a kind of symbol to the character. However -- that's all they are. Just birds.

In the first Chronicles, Covenant was all kinds of resistent to losing his clothes and donning the apparel of the Land. He felt like he was losing his connection with the "real world". So, ones old clothes and their state became a kind of symbol to Covenant.

Linden is certainly in a similar situation. Moreso, in that she thinks that maybe she went on a one-way trip when she came to the Land. Her clothes are what she has left. Clothes she specifically chose to make her "ready" for the Land. The more they deteriorate, the more she wonders if she is ready to face what's coming. Her clothes have become a kind of symbol to her. But they're still just clothes.

I don't think this chapter makes the stains on her jeans more significant. It wasn't, in the end, the grass stains that saved her. It was her thoughts about them that were critical. Thoughts about readiness - "I can do this" - combined with a need for clarity - "What do I do now?" - created a map that showed her what to do: "I am ready to do something, and that something is this."

Stains and pains are just the symbols of things. It was those things, not their symbols, that mattered here.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:

Stains and pains are just the symbols of things. It was those things, not their symbols, that mattered here.

Well said, and [for the moment at least] I think I agree completely. Everyone I've ever known has keys of focus/thought/memory...for myself, it tends to be my hands and the lines and little scars/damages, nails and knuckles...a kind of visual/postural mnemonic or trigger...a way of getting into a mode or mood.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:

Well said, and [for the moment at least] I think I agree completely. Everyone I've ever known has keys of focus/thought/memory...


wayfriend wrote:
In the first Chronicles, Covenant was all kinds of resistent to losing his clothes and donning the apparel of the Land. He felt like he was losing his connection with the "real world". So, ones old clothes and their state became a kind of symbol to Covenant.


What's interesting about what you say, Wayfriend, is how seemingly trivial or insignificant details can make connections and/or associations to other seemingly trivial and/or details in far flung places within the arc of the story...

For example, I like how the inverse of the grass stains, takes place at the unfettered-ones cave in Morinmoss. Covenant is given a clean white linen robe. This of course happens to be separated by time (ie, 40+/- years for Covenant. Lord Foul's Bane to the The Power That Preserves) and not nessessarily by distance (ie, the location in Morinmoss is approximately the same).

That's just me, I guess. I like those little details.
As a matter of curiousity, the unfettered healer in Morinmoss in The Power That Preserves, for me, could possibly be none other than Atairan.
But this needs further investigation, to be sure!
This is why the Chronicles/and Stephen Donaldson's writing fascinates me so much.
Furthermore, there was something to do with the (a very little trivial detail) sound of the room when Covenant was brought to Vespers, in Lord Foul's Bane. The acoustics in the hall were so fine that the slightest movement of a Lord caused a robe to russle with amplified reverberation...and then Atairan had something to do with...a rent in the fabric of space....

I don't have the book with me at the moment so this might not be altogether accurate.
Just some thoughts for nought!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krazy Kat wrote:
As a matter of curiousity, the unfettered healer in Morinmoss in The Power That Preserves, for me, could possibly be none other than Atairan.
But this needs further investigation, to be sure!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but didn't Atiaran incinerate herself trying to summon Covenant when she actually brought Hile Troy to the Land? My recollection is that she died from that.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Atiaran was said to have died. But on the other hand, Krazy Kat is very imaginative. It can't hurt to let your imagination run a little bit.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stains come up a lot. The staining of covenants robe when they rode through that (can't remember which one) forrest was talked about, too. Maybe srd works doing laundry soap adverts between books.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Look for Tide detergent. Now with stain-busting Earthpower™."
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savor Dam wrote:
Krazy Kat wrote:
As a matter of curiousity, the unfettered healer in Morinmoss in The Power That Preserves, for me, could possibly be none other than Atairan.
But this needs further investigation, to be sure!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but didn't Atiaran incinerate herself trying to summon Covenant when she actually brought Hile Troy to the Land? My recollection is that she died from that.


I was expecting that, Savor. And of course I also must agree with you.
Although, I still think that Atairan's death could be looked at from a differant angle. We only know of her death by what we are told through another character in the story. Which isn't very much!
The key of course is the lomilialor

The story of the Illearth War has lots of withheld information, hidden knowledge, and second-hand news.
What I was trying to say was that we know the story, we've read it umpteen times. It's laws and rules can never change. But as Mhoram had said during the siege of Revelstone - There are other mysteries in the Land.

I'll leave it there for now. Thanks for your response, Savor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Unfettered healer in Morinmoss is the woman Llaura was searching for in LFB.
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