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Repost: Guilt (TCTC fanfiction / revised)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Repost: Guilt (TCTC fanfiction / revised) Reply with quote

Revised 01-2013

Notes: This story is set in the past of Pitchwife and Gossamer Glowlimn (The First of the Search), about a year or two after the death of her father, and traces its origins to the tale he narrates Linden aboard Starfare's Gem.

I've understood that the custom of their culture is to change one's personal name, at least partially, upon life-altering events (f. ex. Latebirth beginning to call herself Lax Blunderfoot in Fatal Revenant). The names used in Wounded Land and onwards appeared to me like something both would have adopted after their marriage, which is why I've decided to call them something else, while yet striving to avoid anything out-of-character. Hence, Pitchwife is named Crookback and Gossamer Mourn Kinsloss, the latter of which I thought appropriate for someone who had just lost the last member of her family. Aside from this tweak, have tried to keep them in character.

Click the links for content.

Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3


Then return to drop a comment.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[del]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[del]

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a lot I'd like to say, not to pile it up to much, I'll just start with something and add later. So, don't worry, this is not all. Also, this is all my personal opinion (quite obviously, though I try to be objective).

The first thing that I don't really like is the formatting. The paragraphs are very short, and thus frequent and numerous. So all the text looks, well, like a wall of text. A really tall wall of similar-looking text. Also, it could maybe be better to separate it into somewhat smaller chapters, it may also make it easier to grasp. And, if possible, you can add some pictures in - not like what you tend to draw, something quick and sketch-like, not like what you usually call sketches and most people call works of art they may be unable to repeat with a month of time.

Perhaps I'm too much concerned and maybe not entirely correct about it. Of course, this has not a thing to do with the quality of writing. However, the text does look monotonous and impenetrable, just at a glance at it. I'm afraid some of the potential readers could look at it and go away scared.

Especially hard to digest combined with the choice of words, and the choice of words is actually one of the best sides of this story. "Beyond the ragged ghoul-shapes of the sails, the sky was painted with a musty greenish-gray tinge, the sea beneath churning with unfathomable, black wrath." But this upside is a downside simultaneously, as it is with SRD's own books - these words are admirable in their beauty and complexity, but harder to grasp for many people. So, other means of making the text easier to get into and not get out till the end of the story are particularly important.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks, all feedback welcome, but mightn't the formatting be a tad personal? Wink This is best for my own eyes; they get fatigued if trying to follow huge paragraphs with little spacing in-between the lines. I also write with an external program with perhaps larger fonts than some others, so the text appears different to each of us. With online texts, I furthermore do the same as Deer, copypaste them into Word and alter the formatting myself for better visual appearance, like changing bright yellow fonts into somethin easier to see. ;D

The chapters admittedly might be a bit shorter, but they divide the story into the best logical units I could create at that time.

I'm writing on my mobile, and long answers aren't convenient to type with this, returning to the matter with better time... However....

Language: a very deliberate choice to bring a kind of archaic feeling to the narration, esp. as it's from a Giant's point of view who even normally talks like an Oxford dictionary. Laughing Thought it might raise issues. I'll tell about the effects of my mother tongue (far more complex and verbose than English) to my general prose/poetrry writing later.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think relying on what is personal when posting a story may end up, for example, with a main character who is basically yourself, but flawless and admired by all the characters from the original story, outshining them easily, beating all the villains and solving any problems without breaking a sweat Wink Well, that's a really drastic example, but people often enjoy some things personally that other people may not really enjoy so much. Not to get your eyes fatigued, you may certainly edit the text in any form you like, and change the formatting to the one fitting exactly this forum best as the last thing before actually posting.

Don't expect people to do it themselves, like you and Deer. Because they're neither of you and ignoring a story is easier than downloading it and changing the formatting themselves. I suppose you want your story to be read, so expecting people to go extra lengths is, softly saying, risky.

As for the language, you don't have to defend you choice. Myself, I admire how you were able to weave rare and beautiful words into your story. I compared you to SRD himself - what higher praise could you get on this? I meant only that it may furtherly complicate this for some people, so at least the other obstructions should be dealt with as much as possible, the word choice should stay)

And high praise to you for being so interested in this, to the point of writing from a mobile)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've had a lot of bus riding and waiting in various places with some kind of free wifi today... Still on my mobile. Laughing

Hmm... With this story, finding suitable smaller segments where I might be able to insert chapter breaks could be a little challenging. After all, there are only a few scenes; most of the story happens within a handful of hours. This might work better with a fic with several, quick scenes. One split I can think from the top of my head could occur just before the Swordmainnir quench the fight, another mayhap in chapter 2 just after where Pitchwife's about to suffocate. There might be a chance to turn 3 chapters into 6 or 7, but probably not more without breaking coherency.

Just as a comparison: If you look at WF's paragraph lengths, they're about the same as mine.

I'm kind of curious about the formatting problem since I've used the same pattern and overall chapter length for years, and you're the first to mention anything about it. Wink (Not a newbie when it comes to either fanfic or original content.) Usually I hear about the 'big words' or a too-slow pace (Glad you liked the overall style of narration, however; prolly read the last post a bit too hastily and thought there might have been more problems with it Embarassed. You're too kind to compare me to SRD; nowhere near his league I'm afraid. Embarassed). Laughing

Trying not to fall into the trap of writing Mary Sues, unless for a parody. Cannot stand too perfect characters whom everyone adore. Wink

Well, adding more later. Smile Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, now that I have access to a proper computer again, I can continue this...

I've cut it into six chapters instead of three. Haven't scanned through the text in its entirety since January and my recollections have become threadbare around the edges, but this indeed contains rather few options for logical breaks. I don't know how much of it you've read, but it ought to be briefly noticeable it consists only of a handful of scenes.

As for illustrations, could you maybe elaborate a bit; I may have missed something in the wording? Had intended to add 2-3 B/W shaded drawings along this style, but haven't been able to rekindle my inspiration much due to the same reasons that have prevented me from re-editing the story. (Seem to be suffering from a mild case of artist's block anyway.)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, looks better, but should be better still)

And it's not much surprise people complain about 'big words' and slow pace - it does make reading much harder for many, but it also adds to the style, and in this particular case also helps to be closer to the original books. Chapter breaks are often ignored because it's usually not the kind of thing to catch the eye, such things are more likely to be regarded, if at all, by professional editors, not by readers. And, like I already said, the "wall of text" look doesn't help anything.

And the illustrations... your "quick" sketches tend to look like something most people won't dream to draw in a few weeks with twelve arms (though that may turn out more of a problem than help Smile) When i say "something quick", I mean minutes. Like these illustrations I love - though much of that may be because of the books. They are for Kir Bulychev's stories about Alisa (Alice)



Taken from here http://rusf.ru/kb/pict/index.htm http://rusf.ru/kb/stories/vojna_s_liliputami/pict.htm

You can make even more sketchy, and smaller. If you can Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran through the 1st post (chapters 1-2) and joined some paragraphs, thus reducing the overall length in Word by 1-2 pages. There's a fair deal of Pitchwife's internal monologuing mixed within the dialogue, etc. which, however, requires its "breathing breaks" to sound coherent. As in the following:

Quote:
[...]How...gods, by all the salt-seas and the worms of the deep, how had he not espied... How... Had...had she been standing there all this time with the others?

Crookback felt a sharp jab of pain in his chest, as if bundle of bare nerves had been torn out. The air in his lungs seemed to turn to lead, squashing his innards and making breathing impossible.

Someone nearby banged a drum a couple of times and began singing loudly, "Ol' Aegir Fishwhiskers had a huge poo-oo-oot full of dia-mon-draaaught! An' he invited every man and soo-oo-oot to quaff a—"

He...he had to...h-had to... By gods, he had to get away hence before she noticed, before...

The Giant slumped involuntarily forwards in a paroxysm of wheezy coughing. Clutching at the front of his sark as if prying holes into it would help air reach his lungs, he rocked back and forth upon the stool, gurgling up globs of phlegm till his eyes started to water.

...Had to get away before the faces began rising up from the shadows again... [...]



Editing the rest sometime later; they may contain more destroyable newlines than a chapter with chatter and song lyrics within. I doubt that this will bring an inrush of new readers, however. Wink People, in general, don't seem to be interested in this sort of thing here, as opposed to other fandoms, where fanfiction's usually the first thing sprouting up when a new forum appears online. It may have something to do with the demographic's general age and high expectations of quality. Albeit that even I would absolutely refuse to read about someone's half-vampire, 1/3-kitsune, 1/π Mary Sue called Nagahime Moonblossom Raven-Angel Silverwing being transported magicckkally into the land and revealed to be the extraordinary Black Gold Wielder, a shield against all of Lord Foul's machinations. Twisted Evil Short parodies may work in The Bad Writing Game, but I guess that's about all of it.

Afraid I can't sketch anything like what you posted within a couple of minutes. Someone with a better eyesight may be able to do that. Anything I post online has met least a few hours of work. Lovely sketches, tho. Very Happy

So did you have anything else to add outside the realm of formatting? Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doh! And I just converted this to .mobi.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Doh! And I just converted this to .mobi.


Sorry. Laughing Didn't change/edit any of the actual story content yet, merely removed some white space. So all present in your .mobi. If and when I get the inspiration, I need to reserve quite a lot more time for possible plot edits, and that probably cannot happen within the next couple of weeks yet.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone else responded to this thread)

As for the reasons - yes, somehow it ended up like this, maybe there are also the reasons people don't expect to find fanfiction here, let alone good fanfiction, generally slow activity, perhaps some others. But a very large part may be how differently people may imagine the Land, and that's where nearly nothing suffices.

The thing you wrote about the Mary Sue - I actually have an idea of a story that is not exactly designed to be like in the Bad Writing, and has a Mary Sue Twisted Evil

Spoiler:
Well, perhaps not that scary - it's supposed to be about a typical Mary Sue getting into the Land somehow - about why exactly such a thing won't work, or at least my opinion on that.


I may have a lot to say, apart from formatting, but, it's pretty hard for me to give advice on that part. The main problem is perhaps that the things I don't really see happening, removed, may pretty much ruin the story or make it completely different. To phrase what bugs me perhaps the most - the Giant society doesn't feel much like what it is in the Chrons to me. I understand this may largely have to do with the lack of factual information, and with how you rely on the Nodic mythology to fill the gaps, but to me it seems that is close in style, yet different in attitude. Nordic mythology is harsh, cold and humorless in its feel for most part, how does that fit the Giants? And it shows in the story here largely, characters and interactions almost all seem to be tinted with that. However, like I said above, that's my view on that mostly.

As for the sketches - can't you resize them anyhow while working? I often resize the view to very small while making large outlines, and to very large while working on details, can't you just make it in whatever size you need for your eyes to see properly? You can make such a full drawing like one of those wonderful details you make in abundance)

And, really, how bad can it get - lets check. Look at the sketch samples I posted for you. It should be: sketch 1 - an insectoid alien, sketch 2 - two pirates and a schoolboy, sketch 3 - a pretty housewife Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(In a hurry again, so only a partial response, sorry...)

Yes I acknowledge there are some issues relating to the dark tint in the character interactions and which I should fix, particularly young Gossamer's reactions just after her father's demise... Yet then again, this is written from a depressed person's point of view, who mainly concentrates on his gloomy recollections and reveries, while at the same time struggling with constant physical hurts. So a bleak cast is supposed to brood over everything, except for the very end. Besides, from what I've understood, not all of the Giants romp around delivering free hugs to everyone...melancholic old Sevinhand, somber Honninscrave, tormented Seadreamer, Gossamer herself who rarely even smiles, blunt Galewrath whom we actually never see laughing, and then we have eight hard-tempered Swordmainnir in the last chrons, plus an entire Coercri full of lost souls who decided to utter farewell to hope... So either SRD has a fair deal of 'atypical' Giants too, or I'm reading his books completely wrong. Wink Oh, and Gnarlfist, who in his 'self-wrath' killed himself... So how many bubbly, perpetually happy canon Giants do we have left, who did not sink into bogs of glumness at some point?

And, well, SRD provides very few details about the Giantish customs. The best depictions of the caamora ritual sit within the last pages of Fatal Revenant, no earlier than that. Nothing about Gianthome itself anywhere. So, it's always a gamble when one grasps the risk of creating extraneous settings by themselves. Either people like the additions, or they don't. Perhaps another reason yet why I should refrain from writing more, since it would again require inventing things out of nowhere.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, looks like this thread is turning into a dialogue between Effy and I.

Obliterated two-three pages of whitespace from the rest of the chapters.


Laughing I can see well enough what's in your pictures, and I can zoom in/out on my graphics program, but minute schedules just don't work for me. Details swallow hours and hours on the resolutions I use (5000+ pixels to at least one direction), and the inking commonly requires cleaning up. Been a while since I've done croquises either on actual paper. In multi-character pictures extra time trickles into finding suitable perspectives, and good proportions and balance, facial expressions often take several starting-from-scratch efforts...


What kind of a Sue did you mean to elbow into the Land? Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostheart wrote:
...
Yes I acknowledge there are some issues relating to the dark tint in the character interactions and which I should fix, particularly young Gossamer's reactions just after her father's demise
...


Good to see this, perhaps I'll return to this topic later, after that fix.

Frostheart wrote:
...
Besides, from what I've understood, not all of the Giants romp around delivering free hugs to everyone
...


Yes, of course that's individual. It's not like they have happiness enforced on them) It's more that the story seems to lack it at all, it appears to be almost all bleak and angsty.

Frostheart wrote:
...
So how many bubbly, perpetually happy canon Giants do we have left, who did not sink into bogs of glumness at some point?
...


At some point.

Frostheart wrote:
Yeah, looks like this thread is turning into a dialogue between Effy and I.
...


Way was here Smile Maybe someone else can come. Or, in a questionably "someone else" way, I may come as my alts)

Frostheart wrote:
...
Obliterated two-three pages of whitespace from the rest of the chapters.
...


Better already, the text takes less space and looks less scary)

Frostheart wrote:
...
Laughing I can see well enough what's in your pictures...
...


The funny thing is that what I said was absolutely correct) Though not possible to see from the pics. The first one is actually an insectoid alien and a space pirate who uses morphing to pass as a humanoid woman in a parallel reality similar to the Dark Ages. The second is him again, with one more pirate and a boy who learned where to get morphing pills from him and "gratefully") uses that to keep the pirates from stealing dinosaur eggs. The third is a woman who was raised as a spaceship constructor and a specialist in martial arts, but pretty much resents that and prefers to sit at home with her family, cook and take care of the household.

Frostheart wrote:
...
I can zoom in/out on my graphics program, but minute schedules just don't work for me. Details swallow hours and hours on the resolutions I use (5000+ pixels to at least one direction), and the inking commonly requires cleaning up. Been a while since I've done croquises either on actual paper. In multi-character pictures extra time trickles into finding suitable perspectives, and good proportions and balance, facial expressions often take several starting-from-scratch efforts...


Well, you can make something and cut it into a load of little pieces then)

Frostheart wrote:
...
What kind of a Sue did you mean to elbow into the Land? Laughing


Thank you very much for that link) I have much progress - at least in my head for now - with the story, largely because of reading all that) And the variant I'd like to use is the Black Hole Sue Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read some, but it is as long as giants are tall and I am no enjoyer of giants! Nonetheless, the parts I read were good, but my main complaint is how often you made me look up words! You are an evil woman!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see you here)

Maybe you could do that like I tend to, I prefer to just read and look for the words later, or forget that at all) Especially on the first time I read something. I guess the general meaning from the context, it's also an interesting thing to do on its own.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, A, how would you read SRD in general? Jag vet att Svärdens Första och vänner har äventyrer också på svenska, but how about the third chrons; don't think they've been translated? Surely his prose wallows far deeper than mine in the pit of complexities. I do exactly the same as Effy: decipher the meaning based on the context and only check expressions that begin pestering me. I'd never be able to unglue my nose from the dictionaries if I did it elsewise. Laughing


Quote:
It's more that the story seems to lack it at all, it appears to be almost all bleak and angsty.



Then again, omitting the few necessary fixes that await implementation, I might argue that I managed to create exactly the atmosphere I chased after. Both main characters bear a great weight of sadness upon their backs, Pitchwife even more so. A depressed person may behold even small, everyday annoyances as just another pair of heavy feet stamping on their fingers while clinging to the last ledge poised upon a great chasm of darkness (ho perkele, my purple prose's just soaring today, innit Rolling Eyes); happy thoughts become rare and the glee of others may even feel irritating. Many isolate themselves on purpose. This is what PW's been going through for a year or two here, failing in his attempts at shrugging off the self-blame, sinking in slightly deeper with every tread. It needs to show.

In illustrations, precisely the detailing devours most of the time. If I didn't end up adding skin texture and body hair and a zillion accessories besides a full background to nearly everything, I might be faster, but then again might soon lose inspiration. Though, not sure what good spending tens of hours illustrating a fanfic on a board with such a lack of general interest in the whole genre would do.

Auugh is your Sue stomping her way into Foul's Creche to reprimand the Despiser himself? Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: drawing speed. Posting an example that has about three nights (after work + and misc. boring householdy activities) put into it, and even so it's a complete mess. So no minute doodles for me. Sad Don't recall when I sketched the bluelines; perhaps sometime during last Dec while listening to dead crickets with this. Exhumed it from one of my temp folders nonetheless. While it does relate to the tosh above, probably converting it to some random 2nd chrons crackshippiness, since still quite skeptical about the whole point of beginning to illustrate this.



Besides, now that Effy's gone, discussion will likely die anyway.
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