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What Is The Problem With Roger?

 
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MokshaTuriyaSamadhi Raver
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:54 am    Post subject: What Is The Problem With Roger? Reply with quote

Well really.

How is having him as the protagonist / major character a bad thing for the 3rd Chrons?

Personally I think it would be brilliant if done correctly.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:21 pm    Post subject: re Reply with quote

Doesn't really bother me a bit. I don't have a lot of thoughts on Roger, I mean, he was a baby, not much to get upset about.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never understood the bad feelings towards Roger. Having the Witch Joan as a mother wouldn't have been to good for him in his formative years, it would be interesting to see what kind of an adult SRD would have him turn into.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it could be quite interesting. He might be quite conflicted in his feelings for his father, since he never knew him, and God only knows what Joan might have told him to justify her actions in deserting TC. It might be fun seeing Roger discover the truth about his dad -- both sides of the truth, of course, the hero AND the rapist. Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to remember Roger was pretty much dumped on Joan's parents. About the only time Roger spent with Joan was when she was dragging him off on one of her newage quests for redemption. I'm sure that's enough to make an unbeliever out of anyone.

It's likely Roger doesn't even know what to think of his father. He'll at least have abandonment issues, even if not directly towards Covenant. If/when he goes to the Land, he's also going to have to deal with people treating his father as a mix between Berek and Christ.

Then there's Linden. I'd assume she'll be in the story, if for no other reason than she has the ring. Some kind of new mother in law.

The stage is set, and I know Donaldson will make a great story out of it.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 11:01 pm    Post subject: Roger ... Reply with quote

I admit that I've wanted to see Roger in the Chronicles for a
long time. I think he's the one great unresolved issue of
Covenant's life ... and I also think he's bound to be one
weirded out kid based on everything that's happened to
him ... so I can see Covenant trying to get him into the
Land to heal him ...

(Which fits into my own personal theory that you have to be
somewhat mentally screwed up to be able to come to the
Land.)

I wonder how old he'll be when he comes into the Land?
The Second Chronicles was written about 3-5 years after
the first, but ten years had passed for Covenant. It's been
almost twenty since White Gold Wielder ... there might be a
nice symmetry if Roger was 30 years old when he entered
the Land ...

Hey, there we go ... Thomas Covenant won't become
Berek ... it'll be ROGER! Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:56 am    Post subject: --Now wait a minute... Reply with quote

You know, correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't that one, huge post about Donaldson reading aloud some of the 3rd Chronicles simply mention Roger Covenant coming to visit Joan in the asylum and Linden being *irked* by him? Why would Linden have a bad sense about him if Roger were to possibly be the main player in the 3rd Chronicles? How do we even know Roger will be a big factor in the plot, much less the main character or that he even goes to The Land? Maybe he’s just possessed, like Joan was, and that’s end-of-story with him. Sure, Donaldson said that TC might become the bad guy in the Last Chronicles, and that would SURE leave a gap to fill in the area of the protagonist... But RC replacing TC in his old role is just about as sure a statement as TC being said to be the antagonist. Currently, it all looks like unanswerable guesswork, to me... *shrugs*
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL .. we specialise in speculation here .. hehe .. lol Wink Wink Razz Razz Twisted Evil Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
LOL .. we specialise in speculation here .. hehe .. lol Wink Wink Razz Razz Twisted Evil Mr. Green


Yup, and sure as hell we'll find we've all been totally wrong when the Third Chronicles finally are published. Not that finding the unexpected would be bad.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:25 am    Post subject: Roger the Badger Reply with quote

Well, I think there is no real reason for the controversial feelings towards Roger the Badger, it's just a long-standing joke, a remainder from the old board. I assume some of us (including me:-D) didn't like the idea that Roger might "steal" the Third Chronicles from TC...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then again...*gulp* SRD did say that the Third Chronicles would be called “The Last Chronicles of Covenant”. Sounds like more than ONE Covenant Shocked ...or, maybe, if TC has become a bad guy, then at the time of the 3rd Chronicles he’s referred to as simply Covenant; like other evil one-word names...not going to list them but you know what I mean. Anyway, they might call it "The Chronicles of Roger the Badger". Lots of little kids might pick it up by mistake. Oh, and TC as a villain could mock Roger's name, since he never liked it from the beginning.

Or, worst of all..."Roger, I am your father!" Shocked
"Hellfire! That's not true!"
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL! Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Foul wrote:
or, maybe, if TC has become a bad guy, then at the time of the 3rd Chronicles he’s referred to as simply Covenant; like other evil one-word names...


Well, that's already the case. Even after falling in love with him, Linden still called him Covenant all the time, not Thomas (I think I'd kick her for this if she was my lover... Wink ). And for the others, he's always Covenant or Thomas Covenant, too, not just Thomas.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right...but you’re referring to within the book. I was talking about the actual "The Chronicles of"-- It has always been "Thomas Covenant" till now, so that must mean SOMETHING. It's not just that SRD sat up and said ‘Hey, I'm tired of calling him “Thomas Covenant" after those last two, so now it'll be "The Chronicles of Covenant" or "The Chronicles of Tom"!’

...Of course, if it were "The Chronicles of Tom", then the narrator would be Joan! Laughing

I guess I also meant that if Covenant were to become the bad guy, then the people of The Land wouldn't call him Thomas Covenant but maybe just plain Covenant--like the change from Melkor to Morgoth. I don't know, I'm probably wrong there... Or maybe it *IS* Roger Covenant who is the main character now, so naturally "The Chronicles of Roger Covenant" just sounds too hokey in comparison to "The Last Chronicles of Covenant". And then that could also refer to BOTH Covenants. SRD killed two birds in one stone, then! Wait...have I fallen to speculation as well Question Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah ya know anything's possible .. but there is something inside that just balks at the thought of a 'The Chronicles of Roger Covenant' ..

.. it sounds so very wrong .. somehow ::shrug::

TC will definitely be the protagonist .. sure Roger might be in it this time .. and if SRD writes it .. it'll be ok .. <for me even personally bareable Wink jk> .. <I think I loathe the idea of anyone usurping TC's fundamental role in the chonicles .. and more especially in the Land>

Anyway ............... everything we have heard .. [ie: the early reading by SRD of a few pages of the 3rd chons .. and every interview with SRD that I've read .. ] there is no reason to suspect TC will not be back and have a fundamental part to play in the next series!!

<here's hoping anyway>
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing I never really understood is why the same antagonism
some people display to Roger was never displayed towards
Linden. We knew nothing of her when the Second Chronicles
began, and she apparently earned a place in the hearts of many
readers. Why do they feel that Roger won't be able to do so as
well?

I think he gets tainted by his association with Joan in people's
minds.

Personally, I wanted to read about COVENANT'S point of view.
The sections that centered on Linden were always my least
favorite parts of the book.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.. in all seriousness I dont hate Roger the Badger .. his inclusion in the 3rd chrons will be brilliant undoubtedly if SRD writes it that way ..

.. I was never fully sold on LA either actually Wink .. and everytime she tried to take TC's ring .. I resented it .. but TC needed her .. loved her ..

So she became a part of the team .. and I accepted her ..

You'd imagine TC loves his son .. just because he hated the name .. doesnt mean he hated Roger .. I am sure the love a father has for his own child will be explored in the 3rd chrons. I personally will probably come to accept Roger more fully .. once I have read the next series!!

I trust SRD .. anything he comes up with will be brilliant!! and I cant wait for him to publish the books!! Roger Linden Joan .. bring 'em on!!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeah and what amy said is right .. this ragging that Roger gets .. is just mainly a carry on from the old board .. where it was a standing joke

.. not overly serious .. just being silly .. having a bit of fun at poor ficitonal Roger's expense is all .. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, completely wild assed theory...

TC is reborn in the land in the body of his son Roger. Kind of completing Covenant's role as a christ figure... there's almost a trinity there...
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