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Obscure question about ravers in Illearth War

 
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Oddity
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Obscure question about ravers in Illearth War Reply with quote

Hello, I'm doing a readthrough of the series and tracking what each raver specifically does throughout the series. I'm currently on the Illearth War. I'm early on and Mhoram just got done telling Thomas Covenant that he tried to find out the Despiser's purpose, but near Foul's Creche he was "badly overmastered." He fled to the Shattered Hills and was touched by a Raver in an ur-vile's body.

He then goes onto talk about ravers in general, but I seem to remember he talks about this at a later time, stating that the Raver found something in him more dire than itself. I really just want to know the name of this particular raver (so I can record it properly in my column notes Razz ) or a direction to where he's talking about this again.

Well, thought I'd give it a try anyway. Thanks in advance.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Answered my own question through reading. It was samadhi Sheol.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that was easy.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't made very explicit, but I've always interpreted the account of Mhoram's first encounter with samadhi Sheol as including an experience of possession that Mhoram was able to break free of, after he had shared the Raver's memories of the distant past.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Obscure question about ravers in Illearth War Reply with quote

Mhoram humbly telling Covenant that the Raver had been 'daunted' is one of my favourite lines in the chrons ..
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... I've got another question.

I made a terrible mistake when I first made my notes, I made columns for each raver but I misremembered two of the ravers. I thought they were moksha Herem and turiya Jehannum but I just figured out that it is actually moksha Jehannum and turiya Herem Embarassed. So basically what that means is this... all my notes on these two might be for the other raver because I misidentified them. I do remember that it was Jehannum for sure who murdered a Waynhim and lied to Soaring Woodhelven.

However, there is one thing I made a note of for what I, at the time, thought was moksha Herem. He was slain by Loric Vilesilencer in Demondim guise and the land was delivered from the first great peril of the ur-viles. This was from one piece of dialogue from the lords. The problem is I don't remember if they called this raver moksha or Herem in the passage I read and I can't find the place where that dialogue was now so I don't know which raver it was. If anybody happens to know I'd be very grateful.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddity wrote:
Well... I've got another question.

I made a terrible mistake when I first made my notes, I made columns for each raver but I misremembered two of the ravers. I thought they were moksha Herem and turiya Jehannum but I just figured out that it is actually moksha Jehannum and turiya Herem Embarassed. So basically what that means is this... all my notes on these two might be for the other raver because I misidentified them. I do remember that it was Jehannum for sure who murdered a Waynhim and lied to Soaring Woodhelven.

However, there is one thing I made a note of for what I, at the time, thought was moksha Herem. He was slain by Loric Vilesilencer in Demondim guise and the land was delivered from the first great peril of the ur-viles. This was from one piece of dialogue from the lords. The problem is I don't remember if they called this raver moksha or Herem in the passage I read and I can't find the place where that dialogue was now so I don't know which raver it was. If anybody happens to know I'd be very grateful.


TIW (Fontana Paperback edition, 1978), p.82. Elena is speaking to Covenant.

Quote:
This is the krill of Loric Vilesilencer son of Damelon son of Berek. With this he slew the Demondim guise of moksha Raver, and delivered the Land from the first great peril of the ur-viles.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is the krill of Loric Vilesilencer son of Damelon son of Berek. With this he slew the Demondim guise of moksha Raver, and delivered the Land from the first great peril of the ur-viles.


I'd forgotten all about that incident in the Land's history. Thank you, Dr. Paul.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: Obscure question about ravers in Illearth War Reply with quote

SleeplessOne wrote:
Mhoram humbly telling Covenant that the Raver had been 'daunted' is one of my favourite lines in the chrons ..
Quote:
Covenant gripped the Lord's gave, and said, "Tell me something, Mhoram. How did you get away - when that Raver caught you - near Foul's Creche?"

Mhoram answered with a conscious serenity, a refusal of dismay, which looked like danger in his gold-flecked eyes. "The Bloodguard with me were slain. But when <I>samadhi</I> Raver touched me, he knew me as I knew him. He was daunted."
Amen. A good number of my favorite lines in the chrons are Mhoram's. Another of the very best being:
Quote:
"You turn from us to save life in your own world. We will not be undone by such motives."

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"You turn from us to save life in your own world. We will not be undone by such motives."

You touch on one of my favorite lines in the Chronicles as well, Fist and Faith!

Mhoram seems more clear-sighted than anybody else in the series, evn if he didn't forsee Trell doing a RoD.

I've always enjoyed that Covenant Ringthane's personal turning point in becoming a hero and champion for the Land begins right here where he's ready to take action for someone and something besides his own preservation.

It's ironic that his decision to save the snakebitten little girl involves him momentarily denying the Land's need, but it's SO COOL that Lord Mhoram sees it will make TC a better defender in the end. It's an awesome quote! Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
"You turn from us to save life in your own world. We will not be undone by such motives."

You touch on one of my favorite lines in the Chronicles as well, Fist and Faith!

Mhoram seems more clear-sighted than anybody else in the series, evn if he didn't forsee Trell doing a RoD.

I've always enjoyed that Covenant Ringthane's personal turning point in becoming a hero and champion for the Land begins right here where he's ready to take action for someone and something besides his own preservation.

It's ironic that his decision to save the snakebitten little girl involves him momentarily denying the Land's need, but it's SO COOL that Lord Mhoram sees it will make TC a better defender in the end. It's an awesome quote! Cool


Great post. Mhoram's decency and wisdom make him, for me, not just the most admirable character in the Chronicles, but possibly the greatest wizard in literature, rivalled only by Ged from the Earthsea series.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
"You turn from us to save life in your own world. We will not be undone by such motives."

You touch on one of my favorite lines in the Chronicles as well, Fist and Faith!

Mhoram seems more clear-sighted than anybody else in the series, evn if he didn't forsee Trell doing a RoD.

I've always enjoyed that Covenant Ringthane's personal turning point in becoming a hero and champion for the Land begins right here where he's ready to take action for someone and something besides his own preservation.

It's ironic that his decision to save the snakebitten little girl involves him momentarily denying the Land's need, but it's SO COOL that Lord Mhoram sees it will make TC a better defender in the end. It's an awesome quote! Cool

Mhoram couldn't "see" anymore. He lost that gift after he figured out the secret as to what had blinded them Kevin's Lore. That was mentioned somewhere in TPTP.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, bikebryan, that Mhoram no longer has his Earthpowerful gift of precisely seeing future events in his dreams, as mentioned in "Variol-son":

In The Power That Preserves, Chapter 2 was wrote:
He was no longer seer and oracle to the Council of Lords. Because of what he had learned, he caught no more glimpses of the future in dreams, read no more hints of distant happenings in the dance of the fire. The secret knowledge which he had gained so intuitively from the marrowmeld sculpture had blinded the eyes of his prescience.


No doubt this explains at least in part why he was taken by surprise at Trell's act of immolating the stone of the Close. However, I believe that Mhoram still retained his ablility to have intuitive insight, and I probably should have used a better description for it other than simply saying Lord Mhoram "sees" Covenant Ringthane's decision to help a snakebitten child will make TC a better defender in the end.

Mhoram's intuitive ability was still strong enough to know that he would receive a sign for when the best moment would be to ride out and attack Satansfist, and that sign turned out to be the attack of the Waynihm on Satansfist's food supplies. He was no longer able to see in an Earthpowerful way, but could still see effectively in an intuitive way.
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