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Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie? Reply with quote

SleeplessOne wrote:
this is an interesting take; I'd counter by saying it isn't neccessarily the look of the Land which makes it interesting, it's those indelibly memorable scenes which elevate it.
Oh I agree. I think it could be made into a great movie. I just don't think it should be treated like other fantasy films, but instead be more character-driven. I think people are worried about the wrong issues, such as how to portray this or that visually, when they should actually be worried about how to portray it emotionally, because that's exactly what SRD does.

Has anyone else seen Dragonslayer? It's a great movie, without the technological fireworks of LOTR. What makes it great is focusing on a single character (or two, counting the girl) and his story.

If a studio tried to make this "the next LOTR," I think it would fail miserably, and miss the point.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie? Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:

If a studio tried to make this "the next LOTR," I think it would fail miserably, and miss the point.

Yes. Might, possibly, not "fail" monetarily---no accounting for that kind of thing---but definitely miss the point. It's different kind of books, poses different kinds of problems, therefore requires different kinds of solutions.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Studios aren't looking for the next LOTR any more, they're looking for the next Game of Thrones these days.

The Chronicles sometimes comes up on the short list ... by people who don't make movies.

What will be the next Game of Thrones?

However, since the Chronicles doesn't offer up too many chances for a gratuitous royal sex scene, I can't see it being the next GOT.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm ... as far as movies go, I'm not sure studios are looking for an R-rated sexfest. R-rated movies don't really do as well at the box office, unless they're getting an R for violence, not sex. GOT works on HBO, but wouldn't work at all as a series of movies, both for pacing reasons and the explicit sex.

I think studios are certainly looking for the next LOTR. In fact, I plan on seeing the "next LOTR" next week! Woo-hoo! Can't wait.

[Edit: I notice that the Silmarllion is on the list in the link above ... a bit ironic to describe it as potentially the next GOT.]
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:

What will be the next Game of Thrones?


Quote:
The "Scandinavian noir" of high fantasy, the Covenant novels are glazed in existential mopery. Opening in Seventies America, anti-hero Thomas Covenant is a depressed father and husband lately diagnosed with leprosy. Abruptly summoned to a far-off fantasy realm, his first act is to sexually assault a 16-year-old girl. This is grim, gritty fare that would feel twice as smart with the real-world scenes transplanted to Northern Europe, and the stark script delivered instead by severe-looking Danes or Swedes.


Yay! Now we can dump Starfare's Gem full of square-jawed Finns and Estonians who quaff vodka in every turn and introduce Linden and Thomas to the secrets of the sauna culture! Instead of sulking in the hammock, they can grumble in the hot steam and hit one another with birch twigs, not to mention ice-hole swimming during the Soulbiter scene!
Here it'll probably be stamped as PG-13 for violence, and in the States R+ for naked Giants conga'ing on the rimed deck after bathing.

Ananda will supply ur-viles.

For a maximal gloom effect, it could be filmed in Lapland ere the snow season. Perfect for The Last Dark!

ETA: sea-songs for the crew! That's clearly Honninscrave singing, in the beauteous, mesmerizing tones of Old Giantish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqk-PHdSkz4
This after a couple of barrels of diamondraught.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdT269Peyik
OR they can even utilize prior footage, 'tis clearly Foamfollower defending the Land in the Illearth war against the nefarious forces of evil darkness in this über-famous video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--i3pwGGabE
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The First Chronicles is a highly intellectual work that IMHO in key respects owes more to Dostoevsky's genre of existentialist fiction than to Tolkien, and in which the struggles of the main characters within (and with) themselves are fundamental to the story. A question to think about is how many of these inner struggles can be satisfactorily conveyed through film, and whether there would be a need to economise in order to ensure that Covenant's battle with his inner Despiser is successfully conveyed.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Some kids English assignment on TC Reply with quote

This was posted a while ago. Some kid made LFB into a short (2:2Cool flash animation as part of her Engligh class assignment. She missed a lot but kind of cute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl8ksjUxTrU
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to super-necro-bump, but there were like 40 new posts since I last looked at this topic.

amanibhavam wrote:
IrrationalSanity wrote:
I agree Daughter could be a good movie. Also Mordant's Need. If I were to do a Covenant series, though, I still think 2nd Chrons would be a more natural start. A little prologue, and a few flashbacks, would be enough background for almost most viewers (except maybe the THOOLAH crowd. Wink ).


No, no, no, no, no, no.
Cut Foamfollower, Mhoram, Lena, Bannor, and the rest? Hile Troy? All the fundamental actions and crimes committed by Covenant that make his whole journey to redemption necessary? A 'few flashbacks' could not replace all that. Arguably, the best characters are in the FC.


Mhoram is one of my favorite characters in anything, ever (yet weirdly maybe not my #1 in all the Covenant books) and he actually affected my real life, a lot. With his non-judgmental attitude and...if they weren't literally fighting a demon god thing for literal survival, he would be a pacifist I'm sure.

That being said, cut themmmmm. They can appear as ghosts in Andelain and either stand there with no lines, or have the most important lines in the movies, with no announcement on who the fornication they fornicating are.

They do this all the time in GoT and nobody seems to mind. I mean the asoiaf books introduce 37 new characters, with unnessecarily complex backstories and identities every paragraph. GoT cuts the vast majority of these, but there are a lot of scenes where extras stand around, who, if you were a big enough nerd for asoifiarf, which I am not, you could place a name to, even though they have no lines.

Someone mentioned Annie May, so I'll throw this in too. In Annie Mays lately, particularly the ones adapted from comics, they have just started putting a totally ooc box in front of new characters with their name, their sexual preference and their "power level". This could be done here as well.

_____________________________________
|Thomas Covenant |
|Rapey |
|OVER NINE THOUSAND/QUESTION MARKS |


Now all that being said (hopefully it was clear I was joking, but who can tell at 4am) I think the FC would, maybe not translate better, but would be more, or really the only appealing, series to make into movies. If they were giant hits then make the rest but...

The first series is the only one with giant war battles. A lack of those = nobody caaaaresssss. Gotta get that dolla dolla bill yall. In fact, either Lena wears a swimsuit and replaces Atiaran, Atiaran is much younger and retains her role, or Covenant becomes a blonde with big cans and a tiny skirt.

Now all kidding aside, I've had a very pristine mind's eye view of the scene in IEW where Mhoram, Verement(?), and Callindrill(?) form a forbidding at the gorge(canyon?) and would love to see it in a movie. Plus the battle after but less so.

Maybe I am being too literal, but how would they translate the forrestals/elohim into a movie? IIRC it's not just that they have melodious speaking voices, and sing all the time, but literal visible musical notes hover in the air around them, like wraiths.

Which brings up another thought, some of the most crowd-drawing/viewer loving scenes don't actually exist in the books, yet would need to be IN the movies. For example, the implied scene of Caerroil(?) Wildwood(?) killing the raver and his entire army like it was nothing.

I think the coecrei(?) stuff wouldn't be so bad either. Sin City has the pussy version of Irreversible's bashing someones head to pieces. In Sin city they don't show it, in Irreversible they do. And the daily show had footage of someone smashing someones head and exploding it from some martial arts movie in their ending credits for like 10 years. So Hiram(?)'s fate wouldn't be all that far out of line with acceptable media.

That being said, this would probably have to be an R movie? R for rape? Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to see the first chrons made into a movie. I have even tried to put together a team to at least do a few scenes to get some interest, either live action or animated. I am not an artist, or an actor.

I have also thought recently about getting some funding to create a 10 minute scene, using actors and talent from the Watch. I'm sure we can find people who can do the video and audio recording, make costumes, find settings, and do the acting. The question is which scene(s) do we do.
I have several I'd love to do.

I don't think we would have a problem with SRD if we approached him thru Romeo, told him what we were doing, and that it was for the Watch rather than us trying to sell it, etc.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg wrote:
For example, the implied scene of Caerroil(?) Wildwood(?) killing the raver and his entire army like it was nothing.


Oh, that would be good. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it could be done well. There's too much internal conflict going on. Any film adaptation would be a pale imitation in my opinion. As others have already said the Gape Cycle would make a great tv/film series, though.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject: Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie? Reply with quote

Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg wrote:

Which brings up another thought, some of the most crowd-drawing/viewer loving scenes don't actually exist in the books, yet would need to be IN the movies. For example, the implied scene of Caerroil(?) Wildwood(?) killing the raver and his entire army like it was nothing.


That scene is sorta depicted in the book, peripherally, although Mhoram is more-or-less trippin' at that point.

I've attempted maybe two thirds of an adaptation (script) of LFB which I periodically come back to and re-work, and it has struck me that some of the coolest (and most potentially expensive) stuff would be flashbacks to scenes like the Ritual of Desecration.

Even something like the downfall of the Giants is actually relayed anecdotally (but would serve any kind of series/movie well by being actually depicted).
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie? Reply with quote

SleeplessOne wrote:
Even something like the downfall of the Giants is actually relayed anecdotally (but would serve any kind of series/movie well by being actually depicted).

... depicted, and narrated by Foamfollower.

"... They put away their tools."

I wasn't written that way. But that's how it should be adapted for film.

Then, two movies later, when Covanant narrates the same tale with the same words ... kleenex time.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie? Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
SleeplessOne wrote:
Even something like the downfall of the Giants is actually relayed anecdotally (but would serve any kind of series/movie well by being actually depicted).

... depicted, and narrated by Foamfollower.

"... They put away their tools."

I wasn't written that way. But that's how it should be adapted for film.

Then, two movies later, when Covanant narrates the same tale with the same words ... kleenex time.


Not sure you could do it that way without introducing the whole subplot a lot later in the story than it stands, and the absence of the Giants (plus the appearance of a Raver Giant) probably needs explaining as SRD doled it out - could certainly take that approach, but I like where the Sarangrave/Seareach sits in the story as it is; as it underscores Troy's escalating dread nicely ..

Runnick/Tull might make for monotone narrators, but realistically they'd only need to 'introduce' the subplot before the visuals would take over the story ..
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The First Chronicles would make an epic movie. Budget of $100 million could get most of the effects done with today's (cheaper) technology.

Imagine the cinematic armageddon of the Fire Lions coursing down Mt. Thunder. The Forestal Wildwood eradicating Foul's army. The destruction of the Illearth Stone. Thomas Covenant piercing Foul's penumbra with the White Gold!

It would be epic, I say.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think trying to do the entire first chronicles in one movie would be too rushed. There's just too much in there to try and cram into even a 3 hour epic.

I'd love to see an HBO series - with the first chronicles spread out over maybe 8-9 episodes.

Then, depending on ratings, do the 2nd chronicles as another 8-9 episode season.

Not sure about the last chronicles. There's just so much standing around talking, for long periods of time, in the last chronicles. And the time travel... hard to make that play well on the screen IMO
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akasri wrote:
I think trying to do the entire first chronicles in one movie would be too rushed. There's just too much in there to try and cram into even a 3 hour epic.

I'd love to see an HBO series - with the first chronicles spread out over maybe 8-9 episodes.

Then, depending on ratings, do the 2nd chronicles as another 8-9 episode season.

Not sure about the last chronicles. There's just so much standing around talking, for long periods of time, in the last chronicles. And the time travel... hard to make that play well on the screen IMO


Yes you are right. A cable network series would be better than a movie. I hadn't thought of that. I do read George R. R. Martin but I haven't seen the Game of Thrones TV series. Something like that with the First Chrons would be epic.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie? Reply with quote

I've long thought a cable network series would be the best option for a tCoTC project, given an appropriate budget - a season-long arc for each book would probably be about right.

As to the OP's question; no, it's definitely not unrealistic to attempt a visual adaptation of tCoTC - but capturing the nuances that make it such a thought-provoking series would take a damn good, clear-headed script-writing team (and director/s).

Sure, Covenant/Elena/Bloodguards in an oar-less boat on an unrippling underground lake lit by rocklight with silent waterfalls in the background is gonna look amazing on the screen; it films itself, there's some wonderfully cinematic scenes in the chronicles.

But it's the more cerebral aspects of the story that would be difficult (but by no means impossible) to convey.
One small-but-good example: Covenant's 'bargains'.

Covenant's bargains are some of the 1st chronicles best/cleverest writing; Donaldson evokes TC's duplicity brilliantly, not shying away from his protagonist's cowardice or deceitfulness while also giving the reader a chance to at least partially empathize with him through our understanding of the character.

These bargains are played out mostly in Covenant's mind. A good screenwriter would probably work out a way of having this depicted and scripted, but they'd have to be careful of avoiding it all becoming too expository (or an 'info dump' as I've heard it coined of late).

If you're devoting 13 episodes to these books, then you can't just skip over these parts; Covenant's psychology is *the* most important theme in the story.

There's not much of this kind of stuff in Game of Thrones; Tony Soprano is more analogous, but that show had the advantageous conceit of Tony visiting the shrink every other episode ..
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I wouldn't be in glorious heaven if this were made into a cable series. But there are some obstacles worth discussing. For example, the lack of sexual encounters in the story. Big cable series seem to succeed (and so are green-lit) when they have several protagonists, soap-opera drama, and juicy hookups on a frequent basis. The Chronicles lacks.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Not that I wouldn't be in glorious heaven if this were made into a cable series. But there are some obstacles worth discussing. For example, the lack of sexual encounters in the story. Big cable series seem to succeed (and so are green-lit) when they have several protagonists, soap-opera drama, and juicy hookups on a frequent basis. The Chronicles lacks.


Plus when you factor in that the only two sex acts in the first chronicles are rape and incest... that makes it a bit difficult

But TcoTC wouldn't be what they are if you threw in some random Stonedowners having sex, or having a hot love triangle between 3 of the Lords... it's just not that kind of story.
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