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TLD First Impressions
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The creation myths aren't meant to be taken literally.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..Thanks to the moderators for allowing me in. I blew thru the Last Dark in 2 and a half days. My truck needed repairs allowing me a huge chunk of time to get into this..the Last of the Last...schitt!..I'm gonna miss Donaldson's work,,Maybe a few more,,The Man Who just for s and g?,,whatever.

I liked this Last. As the climax of the Last as well as the whole T Covenant series it hit on all cylinders and delivered a full payload. Donaldson has a magic, a subtle magic , of making the reader a part of the story, as well as the Author, like the fog of Sarangrave, a part of the story..IMHO, the author does as he advises in the story..He does the unexpected...

I've previously noted how I felt the author seemed to be making his themes easier or more accessible in the Last Chronicles. Yet he may have gone to the ,,forest for the trees way of perception. He makes his points so obvious and easy, that perhaps we miss them for seeing something else.

Any parent of a teenager knows the truth Donaldson paints Jeremiah with. More than once I wanted to reach into the pages and yell and scream at the kid.But,,can you sense the Pretense of the kid,,as something we all share with the 15 yr old, no matter how olde the reader may be?.And then mix in the moment of Compassion..when Jerry finds Compassion and becomes an adult thus..at the freekin hands of Moksha..There is a Surreal concept called " magnificence"..Donaldson demonstrates it there and thus achieves it...Beauty!

The concept of ..no matter how dark and doomed things may seem,,there is Truth on the other side of it, the author repeated 3 or 4 times. He was giving us the end with that. Yet as usual,,I began to question the authors ...sadism. Jeremiah warns more than once.." yes, they keep attacking,,and attacking. Thats what they do.."..The author seemed to be attacking me; I'm going to keep doing this until you..feel this. I cried " Uncle" several times as I took a break to see how many pages where left to read to the end...

..and then the Epilogue..after beating the crap out of me,,reducing me to pulp, mere page splatter oozing to the book jacket in search of another collectable,,the author scoops me up off the pages and wrings every last freekin tear drop out of me proving me not to be a Brawny quicker picker upper.. That epilogue was a 1 almost two box of Kleenex Tissues.,,on a scale of Two.. Well Freekin Done SRD..

Constant hitting the dictionary
Just enough induced mysteries
lots of redux
Lots of Surreal:..subjectivity of Time,,pretense nature of Man,,personal identity issues, etc etc..
Perhaps a bit pedant in places yet it serves a greater purpose.

A wonderful Creation about exploration, discovery and Creation.

Hello everybody
MEL
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi lurch, good to see you!

You mightn't remember me, you kinda disappeared around the time I signed up. Glad you liked TLD, plenty to talk about and chew over.

Look forward to hearing more of your impressions.

u.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Melon. Good to see you as well,,actually for me, its good to see anybody. .to be honest,,my memory isn't all that good. Age . But I am glad to see new folks joining in. Lots of new posters which is good.

I disappear. I can't apologize. But while gone I got and read all the...The Man Who ..series Donaldson penned under a pseudonym. So,,I've been reading Donaldson all along.

I have to say..I thought..The Gap series, was Donaldson's best,,but the Last Chronicles,,now fini..is an incredible bit of work. As you say..lots to chew over. Like the Giants have it,,I'm all ears...

MEL
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurch! Wave xoxo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always good to have you back, Lurch!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d !..Sea !...('Wave')
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verily was it said that SRD does not believe in doing all of the work for his readers. It seems that in order to make the Chrons work we will have to construct a theoretical edifice on a scale with the works themselves. [I was going to say on a scale with Linden's ability to procrastinate but realised that not even SRD could approach that degree of magnitude.]

[u. - could not reply to your suggestion of Vraith for the role of Iago 'in another place' because I had refered Murrin 'in [yet] another place' to my 'last post' as the....er....last post in the first place. Or something. But pertaining to the suggestion, isn't Iago a mendacious bastard about which not a decent word can be said............]


[Sorry V. if you catch up with this - couldn't resist it Laughing ]
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone.

I've just gotten into the TLD forum, and have yet to catch up on all the posts yet. But I thought by way of saying "Here's Johnny!!" I would post something somewhere. It seems to be the place for recording first impressions before reading everyone else's impressions, and so that's exactly what I'll do.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think it would be absolutely arrogant of me to pass judgement on something that took decades to write after reading it only once, and after only spending only minutes thinking about it. This is a "first impressions" topic, so all comments are fair, but then again, all of them deserve more fuller consideration as well. Nothing said about a first impression should be considered damning.

Overall, it was a very good story. I think if I didn't burden it with expectations, I would be quite happy for having read it. I liked the surprising twists and turns the story took. I thought all of the characters got a chance to be who they are. There were some sniffles moments, which is not usual for me on a first read: I take that as a measure of the story getting the reader involved and invested. I was riveted from end-to-end.

I would not say that the story dragged. However, the number of physical battles was a lot to get through, and I found myself impatient to move past them. I wanted the story to have more dimensions than hack-and-slash.

What I really missed was getting into Thomas Covenant's head. I was hoping for more, especially around the final resolution. However, I am open to the idea that, having had it all said already, and so well, maybe I should accept that there was nothing more to be said.

The final outcome was a pleasant surprise, pleasant because it both was unexpected and yet also well-expected.

wayfriend once wrote:
No one can say what she, or Covenant, will accomplish before Donaldson is through. But they will accomplish as gods.

I have absolutely no complaints about the ending, except that I wished there was more time spent examining what Covenant thought about it: how he got the idea, how he imagined he might accomplish it, what it was like while it was happening, and how it felt once it was done. As I said - perhaps I should allow that it had all already been said. Or it was said and I didn't pay attention.

As for everything else - I think we should remember these words: Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope. The alternative is despair. And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us. I think Donaldson gave us fair warning about exactly what kind of ending to expect. Anything worth saving won't be destroyed
by choices like that.
A very fair warning.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Hi everyone.

I've just gotten into the TLD forum, and have yet to catch up on all the posts yet. But I thought by way of saying "Here's Johnny!!" I would post something somewhere. It seems to be the place for recording first impressions before reading everyone else's impressions, and so that's exactly what I'll do.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think it would be absolutely arrogant of me to pass judgement on something that took decades to write after reading it only once, and after only spending only minutes thinking about it. This is a "first impressions" topic, so all comments are fair, but then again, all of them deserve more fuller consideration as well. Nothing said about a first impression should be considered damning.

Overall, it was a very good story. I think if I didn't burden it with expectations, I would be quite happy for having read it. I liked the surprising twists and turns the story took. I thought all of the characters got a chance to be who they are. There were some sniffles moments, which is not usual for me on a first read: I take that as a measure of the story getting the reader involved and invested. I was riveted from end-to-end.

I would not say that the story dragged. However, the number of physical battles was a lot to get through, and I found myself impatient to move past them. I wanted the story to have more dimensions than hack-and-slash.

What I really missed was getting into Thomas Covenant's head. I was hoping for more, especially around the final resolution. However, I am open to the idea that, having had it all said already, and so well, maybe I should accept that there was nothing more to be said.

The final outcome was a pleasant surprise, pleasant because it both was unexpected and yet also well-expected.

wayfriend once wrote:
No one can say what she, or Covenant, will accomplish before Donaldson is through. But they will accomplish as gods.

I have absolutely no complaints about the ending, except that I wished there was more time spent examining what Covenant thought about it: how he got the idea, how he imagined he might accomplish it, what it was like while it was happening, and how it felt once it was done. As I said - perhaps I should allow that it had all already been said. Or it was said and I didn't pay attention.

As for everything else - I think we should remember these words: Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope. The alternative is despair. And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us. I think Donaldson gave us fair warning about exactly what kind of ending to expect. Anything worth saving won't be destroyed
by choices like that.
A very fair warning.


Welcome to TLD Commenting, Wayfriend. I have been anticipating your thoughts on TLD... I'm pleased you liked it. Look forward to more of your thoughts on it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's good to see you here, WF. You fulfill the prophecy of one who will bring Balance (not to the Force, but to the for/against TLD argument.)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get most of the comments and generally agree that SRD left too many questions that he couldn't possibly hope to answer in TLD in the number of pages available. Perhaps there should have been a 5th book, however, we're left with loads of stuff to ponder which perhaps is what was intended?

The story hasn't ended of course and we can all speculate on what happens in a renewed land with ur-viles as forrestals (nice) with moksha still around and of course Foul (inner despiser) tucked away in TC for now. Imho our own personal Fouls can at best only be hidden away somewhere in our psyche and cannot be eradicated. Therefore at some point in our imaginary future Land there will be a reappearance of Foul.

After a week or so to contemplate the last chrons as a whole (and reading the many eloquent and well written posts on here) I'm coming to terms with the style of the ending. Yes, its far too cutesy but having initially thought I'd wanted a victory for Foul ie an escape from the Arch, I now find myself quite content in the open ended conclusion. I'm going to invent my own tale in my head of the return to the land of the ramen and the ranyhyn (TC still won't ride or will his inner Foul force him to ??)

At the end of the day imho the whole 10 book saga is about hope and despair and learning to live with them both as best you can. In that respect the story is different for each of us, is it not?

I think we can all agree that we have enjoyed the ToTC journey and learnt a few things about ourselves along the way. I know I have.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
It's good to see you here, WF. You fulfill the prophecy of one who will bring Balance (not to the Force, but to the for/against TLD argument.)

Sadly, I think I am going to stop reading this forum for a while. All the hate, and my inclination to counter it, feels like it could ruin what was for me a good and important experience. I want to contemplate it enjoyably for a while. There's a place for people to share their disappointment here, and that's all good, but I want to share my enjoyment with someone.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just sticking my head in here to say that the only reason I haven't posted in this forum yet is because I am still finishing AATE. I am just crazy busy and don't want to rush the books, but savor them. Which I'm doing.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
I want to share my enjoyment with someone.


I enjoyed TLD! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horrim Carabal wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
I want to share my enjoyment with someone.


I enjoyed TLD! Very Happy


So did I! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfriend - welcome to the arena! The debate [as I have said elsewhere] surrounding TLD is I think the best I have encountered on the Watch so far [re the Chrons] - it has reinvigoratet the TC part of the Watch beyond all recognition and reminded us all of why we are here in the first place. It is not, not, not a place of hate! There is dissapointment for sure; but this is balanced against appreciation and satisfaction in spades. I reread the last two chapters last night after a 2 week or so break and found they were not so bad as I thought. Yes - they gave us the easy end where perhaps we were tough enough to have taken the hard - but surely there is a place in all of us that can swallow the lump in our throats for once and say "Ok - just for once lets pretend life is like this and go with it". There is a little bit in all of us that is happy TC makes it out allright in the end. I defy you to say otherwise Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Therefore at some point in our imaginary future Land there will be a reappearance of Foul.


True, and knowing that drives me nuts.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Quote:
Therefore at some point in our imaginary future Land there will be a reappearance of Foul.


True, and knowing that drives me nuts.


Well, at the end of TPTP doesn't Covenant come to the realization that Despite can never be (even SHOULD never be) destroyed? He had an opportunity, did he not, when standing over the ruins of the Illearth Stone with Lord Foul in his power, to end him. He chose not to.

Seven books later, he again chooses to absorb Foul instead of destroying him.

Foul is a part of the natural order, he can be overcome but never completely eliminated.

What I want to know is, what about Moksha? He's the more immediate threat to the New Land, as I see it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure I agree that TC had an opportunity to end despite at the conclusion of TPTP in the manner you suggest HC. Did TC not realse the folly of trying to put an end to malice - with malice. ie It couldn't be done. It would be like using petrol to put out a fire. Thus the Despiser could only ever be diminished, not destroyed and to pull off that trick only Love and Laughter and Hope could hope to succeed.

If we look at the Land as allegorical we have to see despite and evil continuing in some form or another - even after the Awsome Trio's rebuilding. To not have included it would have rendered the rebooted Land as a sterile Utopia - a 'Star Trek' characature of the real thing with nothing to drive it forward and a banal pointlessness beneath it's outward perfection.
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'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

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