Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

A Positive Thread About TLD
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> The Last Dark
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14323

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 50 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
15044 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savor Dam wrote:
The tentacles that took Shetra and her Bloodguard, Cerrin, were no apparition.

~ edited for typography


TWL, "The Search:"

Quote:
The surface of the lake was rising. The water became an arm like a concatenation of ghost-shine - a tentacle with a score of fingers.


TWL, "In the Name of the Pure One:"

Quote:
As Covenant climbed back to his feet, he saw a tremendous spout of flame mounting out of the mud.
It rose like a fire-storm and whirled toward the heavens. Its fury tore a gale through the night. Towering over the peninsula, it leaned to hammer the company. The howl of the lurker became a gyre of conflagration.


After Covenant shouted the 6 words of power:

Quote:
Immediately the firespout ruptured.


Doesn't sound very solid to me. But,

TIW, "Runnik's Tale:"

Quote:
Behind the burst, a black tentacle flicked out of the water.


Solid at times, not solid at other times? Confused
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To a parents ear one of the most positive things to hear is..." Mom,,I did it!!

Now try to imagine having child for 10 years without so much as one word out of them..Then one day, the child says..." Mom! I did it!"
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As just a small moment of frank honesty TC and Linden revealing to each other that they really don't like horses..spun me around, but as a honest exchange it was pretty neat.
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The author creates a unique situation or even an opportunity for the reader, right there in the first chapter and so...He allows us to know more than the characters know. Linden doesn't know that TC has killed Joan. Linden doesn't know that the sun won't be "rising". TC doesn't know that Jerry has come out of his graveyard. But WE do. By splitting these two protagonists apart Time gets confused, non linear, and we have a opportunity to be part of an author induced Time Warp..a Donaldson caesure, if you will. How cool is That?

No wasps, no ice, maybe some Pretense. Because we know, perhaps we believe we have the right to suggest and demand. But the author writes about these characters struggles and evolving as well which of course, makes our advise to them non sequitor. So by giving us a perspective of advantage, he sets us up for our own pretense. Only if you go there I suppose.

I liked the awkward perspective offered by the author. Not many authors pull the reader in like that. In movies it mite be called a " dutch angle " shot..out of kelter, askew... He creates a force with in us to anticipate the two getting back together. In a way,,he manipulates us to Feel Good when Linden and Thomas are together again..Which he pays off by having them marry. But its right from the start of TLD where he starts working on that eventuality .
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The huge boulders unwinding to become anthropomorphized Rock Monsters,, new protection against the assault on Despair; What a great metaphor!,,Anybody trying to quit a nasty habit, or addiction knows the Truth of going up against the Boulder Bullies coming out of nowhere. Despair had learned a thing or two over time as well. The added spheres of protection for Foul are excellent invention brought from real experience perhaps.
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Borillar
Elohim


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 209

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Times in 1 Posts


423 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed the writing around Jeremiah's struggle against and defeat of Moshka Raver, and especially when he casts him out at the end. And Stave was probably the best-written character in the entire Last Chronicles.

This is neither a positive nor a negative, but I thought it was strange the way TLD seemed to leave some loose threads, like the escape of Moshka, the continued struggle of Covenant to control the Despiser, Branl's desire to go recapture the Krill, etc. WGW left some loose ends like that, but I wouldn't have expected them in this book when SRD has made it clear that this is The End.


Last edited by Borillar on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikeW
Servant of the Land


Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 15

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


57 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borillar wrote:
I enjoyed the writing around Jeremiah's struggle against and defeat of Moshka Raver, and especially when he casts him out at the end. And Stave was probably the best-written character in the entire Last Chronicles.

This is neither a positive nor a negative, I thought it was strange the way TLD seemed to leave some loose threads, like the escape of Moshka, the continued struggle of Covenant to control the Despiser, Branl's desire to go recapture the Krill, etc. WGW left some loose ends like that, but I wouldn't have expected them in this book when SRD has made it clear that this is The End.


I thought the loose threads were a positive. No story worth reading wraps *everything* up without all of its characters having unfinished business to be conducted after the story ends.

Totally agree on Stave, however.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cord Hurn
Servant Of The Band

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 5472

Thanks: 999
Thanked 57 Times in 54 Posts

Location: Alpine, Arizona, USA
6013 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Plains of Ra1 Furls Fire1 Andelain


PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being "Raman", I appreciate that Mhornym and Naybahn survived the climb from the shore when the tsunami came. To some, this may seem like a minor plot point, but it certainly wasn't for me. Joan would not have been defeated without their efforts and presence, and it didn't sit right with me that they should perish simply because TC wanted to honor his promise to the Ranyhyn about never riding any of them. When I'd finished AATE, I was actually more depressed that they didn't seem likely to survive than I was about the sun not rising.

Mahrtiir's accession was very satisfying to me, and I never saw it coming (even though I have the U.S. edition cover, so I hope that makes u. feel better). As others have pointed out here, the image of Caerwood ur-Mahrtiir being a beacon of hope to oppose the massive juggernaut of the Worm's approach is a stirring image, one of my favorites in the entire series. I also love his singing "It is my heart I give to you, my blood and sap and bone and root" right after the marriage proposal. Nice touch.


Last edited by Cord Hurn on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Cord Hurn
Servant Of The Band

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 5472

Thanks: 999
Thanked 57 Times in 54 Posts

Location: Alpine, Arizona, USA
6013 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Plains of Ra1 Furls Fire1 Andelain


PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other things I loved about TLD, in no particular order:

I appreciate that Frostheart Grueburn survived. Of all the 3rd Chronicles Giants, I thought she showed the most humor and heart, and would have been quite disappointed had she not made it to see the world's renewal.

In contrast, I'm very glad that [turiya Raver did not survive, and that we got to see his demise early on in the book (an effective emotional payoff to keep me turning those pages), even if the way it was accomplished was shocking. While all three Ravers are obviously despicable, I felt an especially high level of hatred for turiya Herem, because he slaughtered the Unhomed.

It was great seeing Brinn showing an uninhibited display of warmth towards TC. Also it was satisfying to see the alliance with Horrim Carabal sealed. And, as others have said, the image of the Lurker distracting the Worm with the help of ur-viles and Waynhim is pretty cool.

Stave is an awesome character, and his portrayal in TLD further solidified that impression of him, and his gallant effort in locating the malachite capstone for the fane, and his rescue by Giants, I found especially stirring.

For all their brave self-sacrifice, I'm very happy that the Demondim-spawn still existed in the world by story's end and found a new purpose, though there sure were darned few of them by that point. I think their absorbing the tormented souls of the women trapped in SWMNBN was a great solution for all involved, and the Forestal sure could use the help. I had been disappointed in Linden in AATE for not heeding Berek and instead denying forgivness to Elena, and am relieved that she made sure to forgive Elena in TLD.

The scene where Kastenessan is bluffed into being herded into the fane is a hoot! Very Happy

I'd have been very disquieted if the problem of "unearned knowledge" hadn't been addressed, because that was the initial qualm I had when reading of Jeremiah tricking information out of moksha. But the problem of unearned knowledge was addressed to my satisfaction in the epilogue.

Good to know that the Haruchai no longer oppose the presence of Lords in the Land, and that all Seven Wards will be located, eventually (I have faith that the new Lords--or should that be the new, new Lords?-- will find a way to use their passions to unlock Kevin's lore while being disciplined enough to avoid Desecration).

There's more about what made TLD great to me that I think I could list, given more time for reflection, but that'll do for now.


Last edited by Cord Hurn on Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Feroce keep coming back to my thoughts. It strikes me how the author gives these,,mud creatures,the most subservient, humble, timid,nondescript of the descendents of Fouls cast off garbage and waste,,their only talent reading memory and by that, the author gives them their self worth and thus their redemption. When faced with two bad choices, the Feroce advise the Group on the wisdom of Jeremiah's 3rd choice offer. There is memory of Light in the water held there. The Feroce are redeemed and leave Valued...And The redemption also ripples to Jeremiah with his talent on seeing structure..But those mud things, which I'm sure have a odor about them as well,,and tho not mentioned, host to plenty of flies and what not, demonstrated a Value, a Worth to Themselves ,,as well as any thing else. A nice beginning to the ripple of redemption portioned out as the author saw fit.
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Horrim Carabal
Unlikely Ally

Male
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 589

Thanks: 25
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
79 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Earthblood1 Glimmermere1 Croyel


PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
The Feroce keep coming back to my thoughts. It strikes me how the author gives these,,mud creatures,the most subservient, humble, timid,nondescript of the descendents of Fouls cast off garbage and waste,,their only talent reading memory and by that, the author gives them their self worth and thus their redemption. When faced with two bad choices, the Feroce advise the Group on the wisdom of Jeremiah's 3rd choice offer. There is memory of Light in the water held there. The Feroce are redeemed and leave Valued...And The redemption also ripples to Jeremiah with his talent on seeing structure..But those mud things, which I'm sure have a odor about them as well,,and tho not mentioned, host to plenty of flies and what not, demonstrated a Value, a Worth to Themselves ,,as well as any thing else. A nice beginning to the ripple of redemption portioned out as the author saw fit.


Great post/point!

I also enjoyed the death of turiya, the marriage of TC and Linden, the forestal vs the Worm scene, etc.

I always enjoy when Covenant and Foul face off, loved the ending as well, with TC asking him "Do you understand" what is about to happen before he absorbs him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
DrPaul
Giantfriend


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 456

Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts


2442 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borillar wrote:
I enjoyed the writing around Jeremiah's struggle against and defeat of Moshka Raver, and especially when he casts him out at the end. And Stave was probably the best-written character in the entire Last Chronicles.

This is neither a positive nor a negative, but I thought it was strange the way TLD seemed to leave some loose threads, like the escape of Moshka, the continued struggle of Covenant to control the Despiser, Branl's desire to go recapture the Krill, etc. WGW left some loose ends like that, but I wouldn't have expected them in this book when SRD has made it clear that this is The End.


I seem to recall SRD saying that The Last Chronicles wouldn't necessarily be The Final Chronicles in which all questions are answered, contradictions are resolved, things ended conclusively. The more I reflect on it, the more I like the idea of Covenant's absorption of Foul as a beginning or opening of a possibility (of the redemption of Foul) rather than a final defeat of Despite.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deer of the dawn
On a mission from God

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 6388

Thanks: 50
Thanked 55 Times in 53 Posts

Location: Jos, Nigeria
10144 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Soaring Woodhelvin1 Oath of Peace1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
Borillar wrote:
I enjoyed the writing around Jeremiah's struggle against and defeat of Moshka Raver, and especially when he casts him out at the end. And Stave was probably the best-written character in the entire Last Chronicles.

This is neither a positive nor a negative, but I thought it was strange the way TLD seemed to leave some loose threads, like the escape of Moshka, the continued struggle of Covenant to control the Despiser, Branl's desire to go recapture the Krill, etc. WGW left some loose ends like that, but I wouldn't have expected them in this book when SRD has made it clear that this is The End.


I seem to recall SRD saying that The Last Chronicles wouldn't necessarily be The Final Chronicles in which all questions are answered, contradictions are resolved, things ended conclusively. The more I reflect on it, the more I like the idea of Covenant's absorption of Foul as a beginning or opening of a possibility (of the redemption of Foul) rather than a final defeat of Despite.

I LOVE a fine balance between answered and unanswered questions at the end of a story... The important questions in TCTC are either resolved, or there is sufficient information plus precedent to allow inferences to work themselves out in a reader's mind.... which shows great respect for and trust in the reader, and allows the story to ramify for days after finishing the book. To me, SRD strikes a gratifying balance.

(I actually can't think of another series I read more than 5 or 6 books into, without giving up on it going anywhere.)
_________________
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle. -Philo of Alexandria

ahhhh... if only all our creativity in wickedness could be fixed by "Corrupt a Wish." - Linna Heartlistener
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you hit on a great observation dd..the respect the author has for the reader while staying True to what he believes is important. It is a fine line to walk and true, nobody is going to make everybody happy with whatever a writer does with an ending. I really liked the ending and the emotional whipsaw epilogue. The author succeeded with me. He reduced me to tears.
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Condign
Ramen


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 83

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts


290 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed the fact that Jeremiah still behaved like a teenage kid. He was easily cowed, easily annoyed, random and quick to anger. On the other hand he wanted to explore his limitations, eager to please, and eager to show off. Despite the lost opportunities I thought were there for his character, he certainly was written as a teenager of his age would act.
_________________
A copious vocabulary is no substitute for intelligence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SleeplessOne
One of the Infrequent


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 535

Thanks: 28
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

Location: Melbourne, Australia
2155 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: A Positive Thread About TLD Reply with quote

Condign wrote:
I enjoyed the fact that Jeremiah still behaved like a teenage kid. He was easily cowed, easily annoyed, random and quick to anger. On the other hand he wanted to explore his limitations, eager to please, and eager to show off. Despite the lost opportunities I thought were there for his character, he certainly was written as a teenager of his age would act.


agree, SRD did a great job portraying a mostly realistic version of a teenager, albeit one with a very unusual history.

Clyme/turiyas demise at the hands of a frenzied Branl was one of those moments which made me gasp aloud, I was genuinely affected by that scene.

Coldspray's dick-joke was unexpected and more hilarious for being so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

was that the one that went right over Jeremiahs head with the " girls" all snickering in the background? I didn't book mark that passage ,,but there was " innuendo" joke by the author that caught me by surprise also..I'm glad I wasn't the only one!
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Frostheart Grueburn
Swordmain

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 1827

Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts

Location: Gianthome
1910 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Giant1 Giant Ship1 Mount Thunder


PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other innuendo? The...hum...Latebirth/Grueburn interlude that Jeremiah eggs on AGAIN sans comprehending (poor boy, so much to learn...)?

"And we would moan. Even among Giants, I am prized for the purity and pathos of my moans."
"I bet you've never moaned in your whole life!"
"Latebirth has not. She is entirely dour. But I assure you I am capable of the most extravagant and heartfelt moans."
"If you proceed to demonstrate, young Jeremiah's ears will bleed."

Apart from Stonemage's magics making 'em swordies too long for easy use, what else was there? Twisted Evil Didn't catch any double meanings in the one where they jested about the stink of sweat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
lurch
Swamp Thang

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 2685

Thanks: 12
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts

Location: Dahm dahm, dahm do dahm obby do
3884 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostheart...Yes, thats the one. Thanks! I've always appreciated how the author uses the Giants for humor and mirth . So , there is the Sword and Moan so far.
_________________
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
pg4 TLD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Cord Hurn
Servant Of The Band

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 5472

Thanks: 999
Thanked 57 Times in 54 Posts

Location: Alpine, Arizona, USA
6013 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Plains of Ra1 Furls Fire1 Andelain


PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Frostheart! I was wondering what joke of Coldspray's SleeplessOne was referring to. I get it, now. Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> The Last Dark All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 2 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch