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The old wars against Foul

 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: The old wars against Foul Reply with quote

I'm rereading the series again, leading up to TLD, and I'm planning on taking advantage of this forum to answer or discuss some questions that pop up along the way.

One that struck me in TIW has to do with the old wars against Foul. In LFB, the Quest travels along Landsdrop on the way to Mount Thunder, and it is explained that the area was the ancient battleground between the old Lords and Foul. In TIW, Hile Troy explains further, when Manethrall Rue is giving her scouting report.

Quote:
Think about it. You're right--Every time in the past that Foul has built up an army, the Lords have gone to fight him at Landsdrop. And every time, they've lost. They've been pushed back. There are too many different ways up from the Lower Land. And the Lords have been too far from their supplies and support. Sure, they put up a good fight--and that takes some of the pressure off of the Plans of Ra because Foul is occupies elsewhere, but the Lords lose. Whole Eoward get hacked to pieces, and the Warward has to retreat on the run just to stay alive long enough to regroup and fight the same fight all over again, farther west--closer to Revelstone.


That got me wondering how many times in the past Foul has sent armies up Landsdrop. I am assuming that there were no wars with Foul up to the time of Kevin, since Foul had not revealed himself yet. (Maybe I'm mistaken there, and armies were sent but they didn't know it was Foul.) So once Foul revealed himself, and open war was declared, how many times did he send up and army, defeating the Lords at Landsdrop and pushing them into the Center Plains? And once there, did he then lose and have to retreat back home, to build up and army and attack again?

I think it it is noted elsewhere, possibly later in TIW during the forced march, that the bulk of the army was made up of folks from the center plains, since that is where the main battles of the past had taken place. It just seems that the old Lords must have had some success against Foul in the past, if Foul had to start over again. Also, I don't remember it ever mentioned that Revelstone was besieged in the past, so Foul must never have made it up that far before Kevin threw in the towel. That in itself bothers me. because it is stated that the Land cannot be lost while Revelstone stands. And yet, Kevin abandoned Revelstone to enact the RoD.

Last, if there were multiple wars against Foul, and every time the old Lords met them at Landsdrop, and every time they lost and were pushed back, what does that say about the old Lords and their battle planning? I would like to think that Kevin, being the greatest of them all, would have learned and adjusted his plans at some point.

So, what am I missing? Are there other references to the old battles against Foul that I am forgetting? I realize that possibly Troy himself saying something does not necessarily make it so, since he may not know the entire history, but I don't think this is ever disputed.

One more quibble. How great a commander is Troy if he doesn't have other scouts and pickets out thee waiting to relay a message from the Ramen scouts? How could he make the Ramen run all the way up to the farthest Northwest corner of the land, on foot, to deliver a message? Just having scouts on horses in Andelain waiting for Rue, he could have saved days. Why do the Lords not see that? Why didn't Quaan?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the old battles: I'm pretty sure we have no idea how many there have been. When H.T. says "every time in the past" we don't know if that's 2 times or 20 times. It might make sense to always meet the bad guys at Landsdrop first...at least back then, with those armies. Cuz you MIGHT stop them there, and save the rest of the Land from battle. [among other things]. I say "with those armies" cuz we have good reason to believe that no matter what those armies were like, this one is different. The Illearth Stone grants powers and abilities the old armies never came close too. And those old, weaker armies also faced far mightier Lords.

On Troy's worth and/or worthlessness as a commander, there are discussions around...

This is an early one...I think it points at other ones, too: [FWIW, I think HT was pretty damn good and most of the criticism depends on breaking the integrity of the story]:

http://kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=714&highlight=hile+troy#714
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to correct myself, I think.

Quote:
Also, I don't remember it ever mentioned that Revelstone was besieged in the past, so Foul must never have made it up that far before Kevin threw in the towel. That in itself bothers me. because it is stated that the Land cannot be lost while Revelstone stands. And yet, Kevin abandoned Revelstone to enact the RoD.


In TIW, when traveling through Trothgard, it is mentioned that the last great battle of the war was fought there, when Kevin made his fateful invitation. But thinking ahead to TPTP, when Revelstone is under siege, the Giant-Raver raises "the old dead" around the base of Revelstone to aide in the siege. Assuming the old dead don't move around underground and pop up where they are called (an assumption which might not be correct), that would mean there were some pretty major battles outside of the walls.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the beginning of TPTP, from Mhoram's POV:

Quote:
Deep in his aching heart, Mhoram knew that even this rock could come to an end. In all the ages of its existence, it had never been besieged. But Lord Foul was powerful enough now.


So evidently the old dead can be called up anywhere.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin's reign was what? 1000+ years?
A lot can happen in 1000 years!
That's a lot of generations of Ramen and Land-folk.
I don't think that there is a good tiimeline of event in his time as a High Lord.

When did the Bloodguard arrive?
Sounded to me like it was fairly early on and in a time of peace.
Did LF have a Bloodguard assigned to him?
Was that ever answered?

When were the other Lords slaughtered?
Was that at the very beginning of the wars with Foul?
I always thought so.
If so all Kevin had were younger inexperienced Lords to fight with at first.
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