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Is there anything left to say?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Is there anything left to say? Reply with quote

I'll admit - I'm a slow reader. But I got there, without spoiling the ending, and I enjoyed this quite a bit. I was a HUGE fan of the first series. Not so much of the next. And mixed reviews on the final series. And there were times I doubted the ending could work for me. So glad I was pleasantly surprised.

But now what? It's fairly clear that the lead story of Thomas, Linden, and Jeremiah is essentially complete for now. Would there be any point to telling further stories of The Land?

We've seen other characters make their way into The Land (Troy, for one example), so it's conceivable that another person could begin their own journey within The Land 2.0, but is there truly another story worth telling that we haven't heard to date?

I'm also a fan of the Bourne books, and the Jason Bourne series was excellent, but the new Van Lustbader stories are pretty good too, and all about a new Bourne. I don't find it inconceivable that a new character could capture lighting in a bottle once more, although Covenant is a very difficult act to follow.

There's also the possibility of opening the doors to other writers to do a short stories book, as many writers have done before, and enrich the history, although I believe SRD closely guards his Land and would never consider this direction (I could be wrong).

Regardless, rambling over. Any thoughts?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Is there anything left to say? Reply with quote

Atom wrote:
So glad I was pleasantly surprised.

The Land 2.0, but is there truly another story worth telling that we haven't heard to date?

I'm also a fan of the Bourne books, and the Jason Bourne series was excellent, but the new Van Lustbader stories are pretty good too

I believe SRD closely guards his Land and would never consider this direction (I could be wrong).

Regardless, rambling over. Any thoughts?


YEAH! Glad you were pleasantly surprised! THOOLAH will likely be along any time now to try and ruin your final pleasure.

There may be stories worth telling...but I believe what has been said so far by SRD. There won't BE any more.

Funny you bring up Ludlum/Lustbader. I haven't read any of the Van. L. Bourne books...but I probably will eventually.
Why? I don't know. I've read quite huge number of words by both of them. I don't think, in all those words---which must be in the several millions---I have seen a single word, or phrase or chunk that made me say "Wow! That was insightful, or wise, or beautiful, or original, or innovative, or poetic, or...lots of things.
But I've read a lot of them. I mean, a LOT.
Yea, I'm sure I'll get the continuing Bourne eventually [I almost did at local library a while ago...but there were gaps, and I like things in order.]

But SRD is a different kind of writer.
And if SRD has ANY say in the matter, and can prevent it, you will NOT see any "Land" books by other authors. [unless he changes his mind...and if he does, I'd start looking to see if there was brain damage of some sort, cuz he's seemed pretty adamant.]

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,,of course, there is always things, words, left to say. One thing to say is...Its Our turn..the readers turn to find and explore our ( natural ) talent, and create a future with Hope and Love that develops that talent. ...You may abandon the search for another. Thats okay. As Linden repeats, we are not our failures,,we are our successes.
No one is obligated to tell Donaldson,," hey Steve, I finally took up the piano and am having a blast! Thanks for the reminder of what is important in life."..But whatever it is that you have a talent for, enjoy doing, have fun creating with..some how Humanity will know and that is what counts.

The author liberated his characters to a natural future and he also liberated Us to our own ,,whole, natural talented, at peace with our selves ,,future that is waiting for Us. There is more than plenty to be said about that.

So ..if you are already missing The Land..can't quite come to grips that ..TCoTC is OVER,,Done..KAAPHLUMPED...the very best you can do about it is ...find your Jerry and deal with it as TC and Linden have shown. ....The story has been about You all along.

...except if you are THOOLAH,,then the story was never about you. Notice there were no kresh in TLD..cuz all the hate'in dogs died before we got to the luv'in stuff...The Last Bark...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried to think of angles for a new story line, and while there are some possibilities, none I could come up with seem to have any potential as worthy successors in terms of psychological character evolution through the story. Sure, there's still moksha running around, the croyel are a bunch of really nasty and clever baddies, and Covenant's could have more struggles integrating Foul, who still hopes to break or slip out and resume his schemings.

Yet I think SRD has pretty well tied things up. I have the sense that SWMNBN was to a large extent a power source for Foul. The smack she delivers not only stuns him, it takes away her stolen power from him. That's why he's so reduced. With her free and gone, I don't think there's any way for Foul to become the force he had been, even if he could somehow separate himself from TC. No, we're free to speculate on the future of the Land, its peoples, and its world, but any putative future stories would be faint shadows of the Chronicles, not worth the telling. Jeremiah's already got a good handle on how to get rid of moksha once and for all. I would think the elohim will know how to deal with the croyel, especially since it seems they won't be the self-absorbed surquedrious incarnations of useless "wisdom" that they have been up until this point.

I'm guessing Kastenessen has really turned around, having been shamed at receiving benison from those he sought to destroy. He will ask for and be granted a new Appointment, becoming the new Guardian of the One Tree. This will give him a chance to atone for so horribly breaking his old Appointment, keep him from having to see so much beauty around him that magnifies his own ugliness, and also put him in a place where he might again commune with his love, Emereau Vrai, in the person of the former ur-vile Loremaster.

Other than that, my guess is, Covenant and Linden live long, happy lives together, have children together, and eventually die and are buried in honor. Jeremiah continues to learn and grow, eventually joining the Council of Lords and becoming High Lord, perhaps living as long as Kevin did. The New Forestals work tirelessly for the healing of the Land and the Earth, and with Jeremiah's aid, the One Forest is recreated in the Land, except with room left for human habitation, since the humans will have learned to live in harmony with the Forest. Maybe there are even new cities built such as Doriander Corashev of old, but without the clearcutting that characterized humanity's approach to the Land at that time. Certainly the Land has more dealings with the outside world, with the Giants paying frequent visits, and perhaps other mariners stopping in, some staying. That could create some potential for plot tension, I guess. But otherwise, it's going to be smooth sailing, which is nice to live in, but doesn't make for grand, dramatic stories, not ones that sell, in any case.

Just my $0.02.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I have thought about ways new stories could happen, and the scenario that seems best to me goes something like:


It is several thousand years later, and the Land is invaded by an armada from overseas. The Council of Lords has rallied the population and is fighting with, seemingly, everything they've got. At times, they seem to have the upper hand, but then the invaders get stronger and start to turn the tables. A small group including Lords, descendants of the Covenants and of Jeremiah, and others, start to become suspicious of the High Lord after he makes a number of strategic decisions that appear counterproductive. His response is to mount a surprise raid to arrest the dissidents. Some few escape and go into hiding.

Our heroine (I'm making her female just because) goes on a quest to find a way to find the means to overthrow the corrupt High Lord and his minions and to end the war. In the process, she discovers some truths that shake her to her core.

The Land had several millenia of prosperity and peace unknown at any time in its history. Covenant and Linden raised a family and participated in the life of the Land, often sitting in the Council and providing their wisdom. Jeremiah engaged in a long study of Kevin's wards and other lore, eventually rising to High Lord. His work, along with that of Caerwood ur-Mahrtiir and the new Forestals, results in the restoration of the One Forest. While the population grows, it remains in harmony with nature and the Earthpower, health sense fully restored among the people.

No one, not Covenant, not Linden, not Jeremiah, realizes that Foul has passed himself into the firstborn of Covenant and Linden, and continues to do so generation after generation. Hiding within them, not noticed at first even by his hosts, feeding on Earthpower and nurturing his eternal hatred, he slowly gains influence over his hosts. These experience at first strange thoughts and uneasy feelings, but these thoughts start to become stronger and stronger within them with each generation, until they start to become obsessions. Foul slowly takes over each new heir more and more, until finally the time comes he gains complete control and has access to Covenant's ring. Yet he cannot just break the Arch and go, since he has become fully corporeal. He still must find some magic that will let him separate himself from his body completely while breaking the Arch in order to be free.

Meanwhile moksha, forgotten by Jeremiah and everyone else in their focus on healing the Land, nourishes himself for some centuries in the fading effluence of Mt. Thunder (which itself is cleansing and healing), and then makes common cause with the croyel to gain control of a powerful nation state to make war on the Land and its people. He and then encourage technological advances along the lines of our Industrial Revolution, except that instead of fossil fuels, they use Earthpower in distorted form as their power source. Perhaps they discover another Bane that helps them do this.

When moksha's army arrives, Foul in the heir of Covenant's form recognizes his former servant and arranges to meet with him in what is billed as a peace negotiation. Actually, Foul convinces moksha of his true identity in this private meeting and the two plan how to conduct the war so that it never ends. This is to be a distraction for Foul's search for the means to escape. He is getting close to finding this. Our heroine and her friends have to find a way to stop him and defeat him for good this time. She is also a Covenant and a descendant of one of Foul's hosts by another line and must face the imprint of Despite in herself. Her closest companion is a boy who is descended from Jeremiah and has inherited his gift of making Doors, but it needs to be unlocked before he can use it. In confronting moksha he discovers the Raver within himself and must confront him within before he can deal the the Raver without.

Eventually, the two succeed in making a Door in the Arch of Time that compels Foul and moksha to leave while preserving the world intact. The Creator then deals with them, but He is aided in this by She Who Has Been Named. He manages to inform the protaganists of His success by speaking to them through the open Door before it closes. Without those two, there are still some on both sides who seek only power, but the majority decide they want peace and eventually capture the others, or let them fight it out, or Jeremiah's heir makes another Door that draws all of them to a spacetime where they can fight it out while the rest of the people involved make peace.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some questions that we would need to think of answers to before proceeding with a new storyline like the one suggested.

1. Would the croyel have been destroyed when the Worm drank the Earthblood and precipitated the Earth's destruction or wouldn't they? In any case, what reason would Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah have for allowing such beings to survive and be carried over into the restored Earth?

2. What kind of beings have Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah become as a result of the restoration of the Earth? Are they still mortal? If so, do they still only have the life expectancy of ordinary mortals or will the lore they have acquired and the Earthpower of Andelain prolong their lives to comparable lengths to those of the Old Lords? Do they have the capacity to reproduce biologically and do Covenant and Linden want to, given that they already have Jeremiah?

3. Why would they, or the people of the Land, want to re-establish an hereditary High Lordship rather than the meritocratic Lordships and High Lordship that the New Lords established? As liberal Americans in their previous lives, and given Covenant's personal friendship with the meritocratic New Lords, it is probable that Covenant and Linden would prefer the latter.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
Some questions that we would need to think of answers to before proceeding with a new storyline like the one suggested.

1. Would the croyel have been destroyed when the Worm drank the Earthblood and precipitated the Earth's destruction or wouldn't they? In any case, what reason would Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah have for allowing such beings to survive and be carried over into the restored Earth?

2. What kind of beings have Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah become as a result of the restoration of the Earth? Are they still mortal? If so, do they still only have the life expectancy of ordinary mortals or will the lore they have acquired and the Earthpower of Andelain prolong their lives to comparable lengths to those of the Old Lords? Do they have the capacity to reproduce biologically and do Covenant and Linden want to, given that they already have Jeremiah?

3. Why would they, or the people of the Land, want to re-establish an hereditary High Lordship rather than the meritocratic Lordships and High Lordship that the New Lords established? As liberal Americans in their previous lives, and given Covenant's personal friendship with the meritocratic New Lords, it is probable that Covenant and Linden would prefer the latter.


1. I don't think the croyel would have been destroyed. Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah had their hands full just preserving time, the World, and its people. The croyel would survive by default.

2. I think they could have the lifetimes of the Old Lords if they want to.

3. It wouldn't be a hereditary High Lordship. When I talk about "heirs," I mean descendants who inherit their ancestors abilities. They would have an excellent chance to rise to important positions based on their merits. I definitely think Jeremiah is future High Lord material if he wants the job.

This was really just a trial balloon. I wouldn't want another series unless it could do justice to the ten books that have come already. I enjoyed all of Terry Brooks' books in the Shannara series, but felt that a) he told a good story but didn't tell it well, and b) the very last series (chronologically) ended with somewhat of a let down. I would hate to see anything set in the Land other than a tour de force of inner and outer drama done with the craftmanship we've come to expect from SRD.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hurtloam wrote:
I definitely think Jeremiah is future High Lord material if he wants the job


I strongly agree with you, hurtloam! Certainly Jeremiah has the skills to remake the Land into a paradise of Earthpower, and his continued mastery of the Staff of Law further augments his promise for such an office.

On the other hand, he may outgrow even needing the power of the Staff after a while and just pass it on to the Haruchai or native of the Land that is High Lord at that time.

(Hurtloam, I also subscribe to your notion that Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah have at least become longer-lived being after the Earth's remaking. That just "feels" right)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question.. Land 2.0 has a paradox.. There are two white gold rings in the world.

Unlike before they were controlled by limited human beings. But after the remake..

well...........
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cord Hurn wrote:
(Hurtloam, I also subscribe to your notion that Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah have at least become longer-lived being after the Earth's remaking. That just "feels" right)


Yes, there are two important reasons for thinking that this would be so.

1. The three of them have engaged in a prodigious exercise of lore, and we know that it was through their exercise of lore that the New Lords and the Old Lords acquired superhuman longevity, with the degree of longevity being related to the power of the lore.

2. Covenant would probably want to keep Lord Foul in check for long enough to at least make some progress on redeeming him.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just getting back to the initial post, I'd love to see a side book on the Ranyhyn and their time travel abilities/exploits and sacrificial tendencies (for the good of the Land of course).

The Covenant/Ranyhyn relationship was a brilliant theme throughout the whole 10 book saga. As others have said the Ranyhyn are akin to dragons in other fantasy books.

Something surrounding the great horses as a central theme would be great. Gildens Fire was a marvellous insight into the Haruchai. Sadly though don't think there will be anything forthcoming from SRD though Sad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ozrics wrote:
Just getting back to the initial post, I'd love to see a side book on the Ranyhyn and their time travel abilities/exploits and sacrificial tendencies (for the good of the Land of course).

The Covenant/Ranyhyn relationship was a brilliant theme throughout the whole 10 book saga. As others have said the Ranyhyn are akin to dragons in other fantasy books.

Something surrounding the great horses as a central theme would be great. Gildens Fire was a marvellous insight into the Haruchai. Sadly though don't think there will be anything forthcoming from SRD though Sad
Yay, Ranyhyn.
Was surprised and impressed they got so much "screen time" in the Final Chronicles.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
ozrics wrote:
Just getting back to the initial post, I'd love to see a side book on the Ranyhyn and their time travel abilities/exploits and sacrificial tendencies (for the good of the Land of course).

The Covenant/Ranyhyn relationship was a brilliant theme throughout the whole 10 book saga. As others have said the Ranyhyn are akin to dragons in other fantasy books.

Something surrounding the great horses as a central theme would be great. Gildens Fire was a marvellous insight into the Haruchai. Sadly though don't think there will be anything forthcoming from SRD though Sad
Yay, Ranyhyn.
Was surprised and impressed they got so much "screen time" in the Final Chronicles.


The title of the book would probably need to be something like "The First Horse Rite"
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While there may be no point in continuing the main storyline, stories that happen in the same universe could be attractive: a nicely embellished story of the Brathair's struggle with the Sandgorgons, Kasreyn's life story, a story that takes place in the Haruchai country in the Westron range etc.
Or something involving Insequent, who are essentially the Marvel superheroes of the Land, with each of them having a different kind of ability...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amanibhavam wrote:
a nicely embellished story of the Brathair's struggle with the Sandgorgons, Kasreyn's life story, a story that takes place in the Haruchai country in the Westron range etc.
Or something involving Insequent, who are essentially the Marvel superheroes of the Land, with each of them having a different kind of ability...


ALL of these sound really interesting! Thumbs Up
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Giants' arrival in the Land, their settlement at Seareach and the subsequent establishment of Revelstone.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
The Giants' arrival in the Land, their settlement at Seareach and the subsequent establishment of Revelstone.


This, too! Thumbs Up
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Is there anything left to say? Reply with quote

+JMJ+
Atom wrote:
It's fairly clear that the lead story of Thomas, Linden, and Jeremiah is essentially complete for now. Would there be any point to telling further stories of The Land?

No. Just no.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember that back then SRD said something to the effect that The Last Chronicles would be a decisive end and that there could be no sequels after that because the Land wouldn't exist. I now see that that was so not true.

Basically the only reason it would be hard to continue from TLD is that the balance of power has tilted so far on the good guys' side that just about anything could be handled trivially. But the setting as a whole is extremely high-powered, and gaps of tens of thousands of years between series are the norm, which gives a lot of leeway.

Since I'm in an imaginative mood, here are some possibilities for sequels:

- The demimages (mentioned briefly earlier) are invading! Where is our bored divine trio?
- Linden vs. Covenant: Marital strife on a deific level.
- It looks like the ur-viles weren't so altruistic after all, and Vain was a poison pill meant to gradually corrupt the eventual Staff of Law. That's why the Staff's fire turned black until Jeremiah managed to fix it. But now Jeremiah is dead, and his successor isn't nearly as powerful. And the ur-vile Forestals have been busy with their insidious work for a long time.
- Evil Insequent.
- It is possible to do rituals to summon people from the same universe. Lord Foul's worshippers do this to their god, who is thus separated from Covenant. Trouble ensues.
- The Worm eating all that Earthpower changed the balance of things. After a while the amount of available Earthpower started to fall, and now Jeremiah can't use any of his best tricks and is growing weaker by the century. Evil is returning and uses a different sort of magic. Help!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LF getting separated is the only semi-ok sequel idea I've heard...
It could go somewhere because LF knows 3 things he never did before---love, mortality, and uncertainty [both ways...of self, and unpredictability of things] due to his time within TC.

But please...don't let it happen. Anyone who wants to do it, first do a reboot of and a sequel to "In Search of Lost Time." [Remembrance of Things Past---the title for old folk].
If that doesn't kill you, go ahead with "The Wrap Party Chronicles of Thomas Covenant."

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the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
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the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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