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TLD Part 1 Chapter 7..Taking the Risk

 
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Linna Heartlistener
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject: TLD Part 1 Chapter 7..Taking the Risk Reply with quote

We enter this chapter with Jeremiah's shouts of joy ringing in our ears, "This is it! Malachite! That cliff is riddled with it!"
Our faithful searchers - or, rather, their land-wise mounts - have found sufficient malachite for Jeremiah's construct...
...Jeremiah's construct to shelter or to trap the Elohim.

We are immediately confronted with a new problem:
"It [the malachite] was effectively inaccessible."

Linden takes time to think...
Huge costs or risks of time, power, and life need to be taken into consideration.
Stave and Jeremiah... are perhaps unable to tell whether her mind is frozen in place this time, or running through a sequence of possibilities.
So they urge her on.

Her mind latches on to hints that have been given to her:
"The lady's fate is writ in water."
I love her honest humility in her interaction with Jeremiah when he's cluelessly asking why they need water - instead of saying all the things she could say, she confesses that she's not sure her plan will work.

But we know how her plan plays out:
She DOES find water in the rock - just enough, perhaps - to superheat it and burst the face of the rock...
...in spite of the extreme difficulty of mental effort - following "suggestions" and "oblique implications" within the rock...
...in spite of the mountain metaphorically (or perhaps actually - within the context of the Land) bearing ire and ill will against her...
...and in spite of the schist she has to deal with, some truly obstructionist schist. Wink
Jeremiah offers her strength with earthpower - the gift of Anele - to magnify her efforts.
We hold our breath when we fear her efforts have yielded nothing from that unyielding stone face.
And a natural inhabitant of the Land (our beloved Stave) throws the stone that finally brings it all down.
Then Linden collapses into unconsciousness.

One problem is solved; but that was perhaps only a problem within a problem.
I think Linden has had hints as to where this timeline is going, and has been wrestling over it.
We have the tension between her wanting to be there for her son, and her needing to leave his presence -- that she may find a way to protect him and his work from the Worm, and other enemies.
She has other needs too: purpose for herself, and to give purpose to others' lives, struggles, and sacrifices.

So Linden chooses to brave a caesure to seek what she believes is needed - the lore of Forbidding - from a Forestal.
(How she even concluded this is a story in itself, I'd say!)

She reveals her purpose to Stave first.
Ah, Stave...
Linden's choice to make a request of him rather than command him is beautiful.
And, after Linden says she'll take Hyn and Mahrtiir with her, Stave accepts, agreeing to ward her son while she is away.
Stave even calls her by her first name: "Linden."
Stave speaks of what is in his heart: "But do not doubt that my heart is torn within me. I will know neither certainty nor peace until you return."
He returns her embrace when she gives him a hug.
Who could have anticipated this sort of interaction when, eons ago, we met Bannor of the haruchai?

Mahrtiir is the first to be refreshed and healed through Linden's use of the staff. Her heart is drawn to him, as it was to Anele in times past:
"His condition seemed as explicit as iconography. Uselessness and the loss of his health-sense had marked his mien until he looked haggard, too downtrodden to endure more: as deprived as he had been in the Lost Deep."
And he shall come with her.
At the end of the chapter, he will willingly offer himself to accompany Linden and Hyn into the caesure before she even asks.

Of course, the giants have re-appeared on the scene before Linden regained consciousness - Frostheart Grueburn, Rime Coldspray, Latebirth, Onyx Stonemage, Galesend, Kindwind, Cabledarm, and Bluntfist.
On Mahrtiir's request, Linden extends her power and shares it with the giants.
She regrets that she can only offer them so little healing, so little power.
"Whatever she did for them would not be enough."
Their food supplies are out, too. Problems Linden doesn't let herself think about much.
They get their story, though - of where Linden, Jeremiah and Stave have been - and of where Linden is going and why.
Their reaction is... they have hope.
They honor Linden, lifting her in the air "as if she were the standard around which all of the Swordmainnir rallied."

Not everyone is hopeful and content; as Linden expected, Jeremiah objects.
Some of his objections seem simplistic to me; I am surprised by them.
Doesn't he know of the immense costs that will be paid soon?
But maybe he's on to something.
The risks are also immense, and he speaks of the risk she will alter the Land's History, causing damage to the Arch of Time.
And the risk she won't return - one she hasn't honestly acknowledged to him.
Do his efforts to reason with Linden pull her back to only seeking Caer-Caveral rather than the older Forestals?
Or had she already made that decision?
Nonetheless, she is unable to comfort him, and he withdraws.

The chapter ends with Linden summoning wild magic, hoping gratitude and trust may ward against Desecration.

So that's ...some... of what happened here.
What do you guys think of all this?
Let's carry on this adventure… that we may struggle to untangle mysteries "as complex and - perhaps - self-referential as the wards which guarded the Lost Deep."
(and what's up with that line about the Viles and their wards, anyway?)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice write up Linna. I am brought back to the metaphor of Mystery. How Linden, Jeremiah and Stave eventually crack the impenetrable..eventually solve the mystery facing them. As you point out,,there is an application of , intuition, feeling, sensing and even caring and Love from the newly visioned Linden ( see previous chapter) as the Wall is made to yield its hidden prize, and..as Mahrtiir assumes his role.

The riddle of Time is within this chapter; a neat camouflaged " mystery" associated to the over all parable of the chapter. Time is subjective, malleable, and Linden intends to free up its linear constrictions once again,in order to Save The Land, Save Herself, validate Her Love.

Also, I am brought to a smirk..by the actions of the Great Intuitive Horses, the Ranyhyn. These 6th sensed not only know when to be but where to go . The " funny" ( in a dark humor way)..is how they always trot away from the group once arrived. I can see them just over the knoll or behind a tree or clump of sea grass,,watching their burdens going thru what they must,,what the Horses already know. I can see them saying to each other..".oooh, shes getting warmer...warmer!..Bingo! by jove shes got it!"

Linden is trying a less fearful , more open,, loving and honest approach in this chapter. Like with the Wall of Malachite,,she is successful with small efforts intuitively leading to the next and with some help from Jeremiah and Stave, is successful. The other " Unseen" ,,Mahrtiir's assumption to the role of Forestal,,isn't pointed out directly. It just kinda happens with all the clues..since we were first introduced to him,,falling in place,,and Yes, this is what he was meant to do. How the author lets the realization of Mahrtiir just happen..is so cool. He respects us to experience our own intuition, our own senses; another " intimacy" with the author. Like a mystery, its there but unseen , undetected, until it is required.

Jeremiahs "struggles",,needs more Time filled with Love. Compassion does not come so..freely. Linden's newly enlarged perspective will be tested,,but here, we begin to see the scope of effort its going to take. The " mystery " of the depth of Our patience with Jeremiah ,,begins here.

Lindens faith in her new perspective also tells her not to bring Stave along. The possibilities of haruchai and Forestal not getting along,,seem likely. That she has the " Answer"..the mystery is solved..tells her there is no need for a " weapon" such as a haruchai, in the presence of the Great One. It would have been an insult ...hhhmm..apply to Jeremiah.

The link between the grass stains and the malachite is hinted at here and the " mystery" of their relationship is left to us to figure out.An expression of Hope that lasts ,,prevails,,over struggles, trials and tribulations, in and out and thru Time,,to serve as Reminder of what is possible , even during the darkest moments, ..is a kind of a Love. There Always Is Love.

And for a great Donaldson paradox...Love is the greatest mystery of all.


Thanks Linna for the neat dissect. Write on Time!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, Linna. Sorry to get on this slowly, I wanted to do the chapter justice and had some catching-up to do.

Re-reading the chapter, I find myself correlating Jeremiah with the reader. SRD set up a huge task for himself in bringing Jeremiah out of locked-in syndrome: here is a character who up to now has been little more than a puppet, an infant who is tall and walks and needs to shave. Suddenly his personality emerges complete with attitude. You can almost hear the "MOOoo--oommm". But Jeremiah gets to voice some of the tension the reader feels at Linden's obligatory hesitancy.
Quote:
Jeremiah had reached the end of his restraint. "But why?"

What must be gone through will be so alien, even to those who have followed Cov et al up to now, that in Jeremiah, SRD gives the reader a feeling that someone in this crazy crew gets it. Smile

One of the main themes in all the Chrons is reiterated here, that "Desperation is Power".
Quote:
What choice did she have? What choice did anyone have?
...
When your deeds have come to doom--
...
Power was the only answer.
...
If she could summon that form of strength or desperation again,...


As Stave says, "The deed cannot succeed if it is not attempted." There is no more sitting back and letting things play. Decisions can be made with a kind of confidence, because attempts must be made.
Quote:
Have mercy, she groaned as she stumbled along. I can't do this.
She had to do it.
...
The Land required more of her.


(Jeremiah, on the other hand, is a loose cannon of Earthpower. Lacking the restraint that comes with years and guilt, he has no problem exulting in displays of light and magic. Too bad he couldn't have been around when Covenant was constipated with reluctance to use wild magic!)

The reader's heart leaps when Mahrtiir is brought in to play. His time has come at last! Not only for himself, but "I speak for my people. We must become more than we have been..."

Doesn't everyone.

So off they go, to "save or damn", "Taking the risk, she created a disruption of Time and history that might destroy the world." It must be done, and it is a mark of the change in Linden's character that she does it like Katharine Hepburn in The African Queen: "Damn the torpedoes!!"
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
...and in spite of the schist she has to deal with, some truly obstructionist schist.


Shocked Spew Big Grin


Well played, Linna! And thank you for your dissection!


lurch wrote:
Lindens faith in her new perspective also tells her not to bring Stave along. The possibilities of haruchai and Forestal not getting along,,seem likely. That she has the " Answer"..the mystery is solved..tells her there is no need for a " weapon" such as a haruchai, in the presence of the Great One. It would have been an insult ...hhhmm..apply to Jeremiah.


Good point, lurch. Stave would have no purpose there, as he cannot possibly protect Linden from the ire of a Forestal. His presence would be an admission that Linden has done something to deserve such ire, I should think. Mahrtiir is the perfect choice, as he best understands the Ranyhyn that will guide them and as he has no ability to carry out Jeremiah's wishes for the malachite construct.

deer of the dawn wrote:
The reader's heart leaps when Mahrtiir is brought in to play. His time has come at last! Not only for himself, but "I speak for my people. We must become more than we have been..."


Absolutely, DD, for I know my heart leaped when I read this, and leaped again for the part that follows.

Quote:
Coldspray and her people studied him with darkness in their faces. Some of them still wished to protest, especially Latebirth, who had often carried the Manethrall. Others showed resignation or grief, or waited uncertainly for their Ironhand's reply. But Linden bowed her head and let new gratitude flow through her. Although she wanted Mahrtiir with her, she had been loathe to ask so much of him. His unrequested willingness eased her reluctance.

After a long moment, Rime Coldspray raised her voice into the twilight. "Manethrall of the Raman, I am abashed." Her tone was gentler now, and more sorrowful. "I confess it, Giant though I am. Eyeless, your sight is clear where mine is clouded. We must accede to your counsel."

"Then," Mahrtiir returned, "I bid you farewell for a time. May our absence be brief. For my part, I am certain of you. When you have set your hearts to any purpose, you will accomplish it. So it was said of the Unhomed, and so it is with you. But where their tale has grown with age, yours will shine out, illuminating the last days of the Earth."


That character never seems to run out of inspirational speeches.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD you make a great observation about Desperation is Power..Certainly a motivator to say the least..Finding what works seems to have happened in the last chapter, and in this chapter, " what works' begins to go forward. The Desperation stays in the back ground , low key and only brought forward to remind us..The Worm...As we the reader progress thru the book, we , or at least I, began to feel a desperation ,,but the power of it was all the author's..!! The closer I got to the end, the more desperate I became to see how he was going to wrap this puppy up. Of course there was Jeremiah all along reminding us how far the Worm had progressed..while I'm noticing,,perhaps even slitely panicking ,,how few pages remain to be read. Point being,,not only do the characters experience a desperation and the Power of it..but so does the reader.
This relates to the observation , that How The Story is Told becomes just as much of The Story as any thing else. There is an intimacy offered by the author.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linna..Okay , no one else has taken up the invitation so I'll press on with it..how Linden concluded to go back in time to get the ability to Forbid....
The feroce may have had just enough glamour time with Linden , to plant the seed, before Stave walloped her...I like how the author doesn't just say it straight out,,as well as the other " conclusions" Linden came to while knocked out..How upside down inside out other reality is that?; conclusions came to while knocked out. And then in this chapter , once again Linden enters an unconscious state..to come to realizations..Linden is the message but Mahtriir will be the venue, messenger, the Mercury, ..Together they succeed..adamant Love..

Fascinating that the author has used " state of Mind" ..from the glamour of the feroce, to knocked out , to exhausted to unconsciousness..with Linden ..to have her " conclude" what it is that she has to do...to Save the Land , Save herself. Her redemption is in these other states of mind.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
Do his efforts to reason with Linden pull her back to only seeking Caer-Caveral rather than the older Forestals?
Or had she already made that decision?


It has never been clear to me why she felt that Caer-Caveral was the only Forestal choice for learning forbidding.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the Instinctual Ranyhyn have alot to say about determining who and when Linden goes back in time to work things out with. Also Wildwood is the only forestal who posed the question of ..when I am gone, what will happen....so it would seem likely he would be the one she returns to with ..an answer ,,that also answers the need in the current time..There is always Love. ..

Jerry seems to me just grasping at straws..His litany of " ifs" do not seem to recognize all the other times Linden has time traveled. I'm not sure he would kno tho..But to the point..we do kno. For me..Jerry comes off lacking and Linden already knos this..and that is part of her realization while " unconscious "..Jerry needs to start growing up.,,maturing. Linden can't do that for him. He is the only one who can do it. Further on the subject spoils the next chapter.

Fascinating how Donaldson's " love"..swings from ecstatic to..painful. There is a beauty there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurch wrote:
Jerry seems to me just grasping at straws..His litany of " ifs" do not seem to recognize all the other times Linden has time traveled. I'm not sure he would kno tho..But to the point..we do kno. For me..Jerry comes off lacking and Linden already knos this..and that is part of her realization while " unconscious "..Jerry needs to start growing up.,,maturing. Linden can't do that for him.


Good point, and that's another reason why Linden has to go. Now that she's exploded the malachite out of the cliff, there's nothing more she can do here, and nothing Jerry can object about time travel that his stepmom hasn't already thought of for herself. The best advice to give here is what TC has already said to Mahrtiir two books ago: "Just be sure you come back."
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for a great opening to this chapter, LH.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
We hold our breath when we fear her efforts have yielded nothing from that unyielding stone face.
And a natural inhabitant of the Land (our beloved Stave) throws the stone that finally brings it all down.
Then Linden collapses into unconsciousness.

What I like here is that Donaldson explains precisely how hard this challenge is, and precisely how amazing it is that Linden meets the challenge. It's entirely Linden being great. Yes, there are times when answers to obstacles seem to fall from the sky. But there are times, like this one, where obstacles are met with intelligence and strength and sheer will. It's clear enough that our protagonists are well tested, and that only they can meet the fate of the world.

And, yes, Stave throwing the stone that provides the final impetus is one of those dramatic instants that I love so well in these Last Chronicles. It doesn't even have to be symbolic to be memorable.

In The Last Dark was wrote:
After all, it was only a cliff. It was not the cunning subterfuge and malice of the Demondim, seething to mask the caesure which gave them access to the Illearth Stone. Nor was it the recursive wards of the Viles, coiling themselves into a mad tangle to prevent intruders from entering the Lost Deep.

I think it's important to note that this malachite task is of a kind with the ward of the Viles, the Demondim's Stone, and even with the use of caesures. In all of them, she is working out how things are put together, and how they function. Less importantly, it lends credence that this is a puzzle that Linden can solve - she's solved similar ones. But more importantly, each task completed increases Linden's ability to see how the world is put together. Linden has faced a series of tasks related to learning natural structure. That's very significant. -- But enough said.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
So Linden chooses to brave a caesure to seek what she believes is needed - the lore of Forbidding - from a Forestal.
(How she even concluded this is a story in itself, I'd say!)

A story worth remembering. She was prompted by the message delivered by the Feroce, coupled with their memory enhancement. A message which Covenant wanted sent. Because he was reminded himself by the lurker. Reminded of the cryptic portent delivered by Anele. Who was reading the runes of the Earth. He may have been speaking for the sand, or the rotting wood; or for Salva Gildenbourne.

The Earth itself, I think, provided this clue. Or, at least, the Great Forest did. We cannot discount it's importance (not that anyone is).

But if we consider this phrase:

The forgotten truths of stone and wood, orcrest and refusal.

We can now see that "the forgotten truth of wood" is probably related to seeking the forestals in the past.

Similarly, the "forgotten truth of stone" is probably related to the malachite, which they also discovered in the past.

But what is "the forgotten truth of orcrest" ? AFAICT, it must refer to the orcrest freeing Jeremiah from the croyel.

And "the forgotten truth of refusal"? Is that "forbidding" itself?

Stuff to ponder.

lurch wrote:
The " funny" ( in a dark humor way)..is how they always trot away from the group once arrived.

I think that that is how the Ranyhyn say, Don't look at us, we got nuthin.

deer of the dawn wrote:
Suddenly his personality emerges complete with attitude. You can almost hear the "MOOoo--oommm".

Poor Jeremiah. He's practically saying, Watch me, mom! He finally gets to make a super-duper contribution, and show off his mad skills ... and his mom, whose validation he seeks childishly, isn't going to watch him. Stomp stomp Wah!

deer of the dawn wrote:
One of the main themes in all the Chrons is reiterated here, that "Desperation is Power".

Desperation is an emotion. The stronger the emotion - the stronger the desperation - the more power it unlocks.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
Ah, Stave...
Linden's choice to make a request of him rather than command him is beautiful.

There was a mention in that about a power to compel Stave, which the Mahdoubt had spoken of. This refers to something that I cannot place. "He has named his pain. By it he may be invoked." But I cannot find where that had ever occurred. Anyone?

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
Stave speaks of what is in his heart: "But do not doubt that my heart is torn within me. I will know neither certainty nor peace until you return."

Donaldson makes it clear that there is fondness for Linden in Stave.
An unusual admission for a Haruchai. Stave is evolving.

So much depends on the people of the Land being fond of Linden. And her inspiring them to such fondness. Liand. The Ramen. The Giants. All place her in their hearts. And so much success is made possible because they do.

Cord Hurn wrote:
It has never been clear to me why she felt that Caer-Caveral was the only Forestal choice for learning forbidding.

Well, the text says that she's thinking about the Old Forest forbidding the Ravers. That's the clue she's following. So it makes sense that she would find an Old Forestal to speak to. And Caer-Caveral is the only one she has a relationship with. Perhaps she thinks he's the best shot for granting what she seeks.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
Do his efforts to reason with Linden pull her back to only seeking Caer-Caveral rather than the older Forestals?
Or had she already made that decision?

My thinking is that, indeed, he persuaded her to modify her plan. Because I think she was, as I said above, thinking first about Caer-Caveral.

In The Last Dark was wrote:
I made a promise to Caerroil Wildwood. I don’t know how else to keep it.

I think this is also important to those very two questions. Linden seems to know it's time to fulfill her promise.

But what's astounding is that she's also clearly clueless about how she will fulfill it.

She's gonna wing it!

... I think that Linden is trusting herself again.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way...the relationship between Trust, Love, and Mystery is excruciatingly beautiful....wing it indeed.
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