Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Last Chronicles - worth it?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Entire Chronicles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
michaelm
Kevin's Watchmaker

Male
Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 1454

Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: location, location
3559 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Covenant's Novels1 Earthblood1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: The Last Chronicles - worth it? Reply with quote

I have read the first and second chronicles a few times and thoroughly enjoyed them. The last chronicles don't see to have had the same critical response and in some ways seem to have attracted in general more negative reviews.

Without giving any spoilers, what are your thoughts on the final chronicles compared to the first and second - should I just read them because they are TC books, or should I approach them with trepidation?

Or something else?

I'd be interested to hear opinions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5383

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5599 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Watch!

Very good question. And I'm sure that you'll be getting many different responses. The range of opinions on the Last Chronicles is vast.

You are correct though that opinion on the Last Chronicles tends to skew to the negative side, to say the least. I think some of the primary things that people were disappointed with in the LC compared to the FC and SC could be summarized as:

-The lack of colorful and interesting secondary characters in the vein of Mhoram and Pitchwife.
-The pacing never seemed to hit a consistent stride; it would be slow-moving at times, followed by abrupt jumps of action.
-Not to spoil anything, but I guess it would be fair to warn you that many here were, to say the least, a little let down by the ending.

However, do I regret reading it? I don't think so. The main positive of the LC that I can say is that I still enjoy SRD purely as a writer. There's just something about his writing that I just always enjoy reading his words. And it is a Covenant series, so if you enjoyed reading about the Land, you do get more of that.

So I donno. I guess you just have to go for it and make up your own opinion. Big Grin

Read them because they are TC books, but also approach with trepidation. Wink

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ananda
All hail Eris!

Female
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 2447

Thanks: 54
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts

Location: Sweden
4338 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army1 Oath of Peace1 Love


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're just a few more books to have read in your life, so if you don't mind spending money on books you may not love, reading them won't hurt you, I think. I don't regret reading them, but they weren't really very good in my opinion. The main thing about the last chrons for me is the writing style becomes so redundant. There is just so much repetition and so little going on by the end that the fine line between the metaphor of the land as a therapy tool and the high fantasy gets shifted over into feeling like a voyeur in a group therapy session in my opinion. On the other hand, some people really enjoyed it and thought it was brilliant, so if you end somewhere in the middle, you will have still enjoyed it.

There are a few fun new characters and stories, too. In the end, it is just more fantasy and, if you like fantasy, just read it and enjoy it for whatever you get out of it. So, why not just read them! At the very least, you can then post in the last chrons forum and be moderated by Savor Dam who will shepherd you in pun format.
_________________
Monsters, they eat
Your kind of meat
And they're moving as far as they can
And as fast as they can
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 11756

Thanks: 21
Thanked 109 Times in 105 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
65777 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that many hold negative views of the Last Chronicles because the books weren't what they wanted them to be. However, if you aren't the author then a book is never what you want it to be.

You should read them because they are Covenant books but approach them with an open mind.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aliantha
18k or bust!

Female
Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 17551

Thanks: 28
Thanked 73 Times in 72 Posts

Location: Arlington, VA
14467 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Aliantha Berries1 Andelain1 SRD's Green Rock


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think that the thing that put most people off of the Last Chrons -- Runes, in particular -- was the lack of the almost-poetic narrative voice they associated with the Chrons. But that was because Covenant is dead, and Linden is a different kind of character (pipe down, THOOLAHns!). She has a much more practical, hard-edged mien, and she lacks Covenant's desperation. So the narrative voice SRD uses for her chapters is less lyrical, more clinical.

Once we got to Fatal Revenant and Covenant is back as a PoV character, the narrative voice turns lyrical again. I swear I heard a sigh of relief sweep the forums here.... Wink

Anyway. The first two Chrons hold a special place in my heart. I enjoyed the Last Chrons and will probably reread them at some point, but they're not going to hold the same enchantment for me. I'm glad I read them, though. Smile
_________________



EZ Board Survivor

"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)

http://www.hearth-myth.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
michaelm
Kevin's Watchmaker

Male
Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 1454

Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: location, location
3559 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Covenant's Novels1 Earthblood1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. I'll probably read them anyway, but was interested in people's opinions - glad to hear some of the reasons behind the why and the comments on how they are different from the first and second.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MsMary
The Cheat

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 06 Mar 2002
Posts: 6948

Thanks: 12
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts


34057 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Andelain1 2010 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinswatch wrote:
Welcome to the Watch!

Very good question. And I'm sure that you'll be getting many different responses. The range of opinions on the Last Chronicles is vast.

You are correct though that opinion on the Last Chronicles tends to skew to the negative side, to say the least. I think some of the primary things that people were disappointed with in the LC compared to the FC and SC could be summarized as:

-The lack of colorful and interesting secondary characters in the vein of Mhoram and Pitchwife.
-The pacing never seemed to hit a consistent stride; it would be slow-moving at times, followed by abrupt jumps of action.
-Not to spoil anything, but I guess it would be fair to warn you that many here were, to say the least, a little let down by the ending.

However, do I regret reading it? I don't think so. The main positive of the LC that I can say is that I still enjoy SRD purely as a writer. There's just something about his writing that I just always enjoy reading his words. And it is a Covenant series, so if you enjoyed reading about the Land, you do get more of that.

So I donno. I guess you just have to go for it and make up your own opinion. Big Grin

Read them because they are TC books, but also approach with trepidation. Wink

-jay


I agree with all of this.

I don't regret having read them, but I'm not in a hurry for a re-read.
_________________
The Cheat is GROUNDED! We had that lightswitch installed for you so you could turn the lights on and off, not so you could throw lightswitch raves!
***************************************
- I'm always all right.
- Is all right special Time Lord code for really not all right at all?

- You're all irresponsible fools!
- The Doctor: But we're very experienced irresponsible fools.






__________________________

THOOLAH member since 2005

EZBoard Survivor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frostheart Grueburn
Swordmain

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 1827

Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts

Location: Gianthome
1910 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Giant1 Giant Ship1 Mount Thunder


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If huge, strong, somewhat rubenesque but definitely rabelasian ladies tickle your taste buds then have at least a peek... ;-D

It does have interesting minor characters!
.Spoiler:
At least I found Stave far more developed than his ancestors...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5383

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5599 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand by my statement that there lacks interesting minor characters.

However, I agree that there is a interesting minor character.

Big Grin

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Frostheart Grueburn
Swordmain

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 1827

Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts

Location: Gianthome
1910 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Giant1 Giant Ship1 Mount Thunder


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinswatch wrote:
I stand by my statement that there lacks interesting minor characters.

However, I agree that there is a interesting minor character.

Big Grin

-jay



Spoiler:
Mahrtiir. Rime Coldspray (plus she's not such a fountain of tears as Gossamer... Razz ) the kick-arse grandma...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5383

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5599 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoiler:
The First of the Search could kick Coldspray's ass any day of the week!


Razz

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ussusimiel
Ghurning

Male
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 5346

Thanks: 69
Thanked 66 Times in 63 Posts

Location: Waterford (milking cows), and sometimes still Dublin, Ireland
7868 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Unfettered1 Member of THOOLAH1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My advice would be to approach the Last Chronicles as if they are a separate series altogether. It is a difficult thing to do and I found the writing, plotting, characterisation and pacing to be so significantly different as to render it well nigh impossible for me to reconcile the LCs with the 1st and 2nd Chrons.

Approach with care and if you are not enjoying them stop reading. At that stage, maybe dip into the Runes forum and sample some of the discussions there. That may whet you appetite to read some more, even if only to be able to be part of the discussion. There are certain things in the LCs that illuminate and explain stuff from the 1st and 2nd Chrons that it is cool to learn and know about.

u.
_________________
Tho' all the maps of blood and flesh
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 11756

Thanks: 21
Thanked 109 Times in 105 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
65777 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostheart wrote:
If huge, strong, somewhat rubenesque but definitely rabelasian ladies tickle your taste buds then have at least a peek... ;-D


I am always ready to peek at giantesses. Mr. Green
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frostheart Grueburn
Swordmain

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 1827

Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts

Location: Gianthome
1910 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Giant1 Giant Ship1 Mount Thunder


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinswatch wrote:
Spoiler:
The First of the Search could kick Coldspray's ass any day of the week!


Razz

-jay
Spoiler:
But she specifically told she never were the mightiest of the hird! Razz how do you know Ironhand Glowlimn did not mentor her, though?

People complain about Linden weeping, but the First does that about s much. Count the occasions!



Now, about Hashi...
Spoiler:
Few ken that he is an Insequent whose sole purpose was to materialize whenever the giantesses bathed, and peek at them from the bushes. At one point Bluntfist's keen eyes spotted him, and...for some reason, there's a page missing from my edition of AATE atthis point. Anyone aware of what befell?.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18871

Thanks: 11
Thanked 216 Times in 199 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
43219 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: The Last Chronicles - worth it? Reply with quote

michaelm wrote:
I'd be interested to hear opinions.
Dude, you just walked into a vegan forum and asked if baby seal burgers are tasty. Smile
_________________
    FEAR:
Yet hearken well, aspirant bold!
I, tho' a stranger, but whilom friend,
Hold the odds against thee now.
Straightly be adjured, witling:-
- The Finding of the Gnosis, or, Apotheosis of an Ideal
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
michaelm
Kevin's Watchmaker

Male
Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 1454

Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: location, location
3559 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Covenant's Novels1 Earthblood1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: The Last Chronicles - worth it? Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
michaelm wrote:
I'd be interested to hear opinions.
Dude, you just walked into a vegan forum and asked if baby seal burgers are tasty. Smile

Or at least asked about the club sandwich...?

(Sorry, my jokes are really bad...)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vraith
LibTard, Mr. Reliable.


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10195

Thanks: 17
Thanked 94 Times in 91 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
28308 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: The Last Chronicles - worth it? Reply with quote

michaelm wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
michaelm wrote:
I'd be interested to hear opinions.
Dude, you just walked into a vegan forum and asked if baby seal burgers are tasty. Smile

Or at least asked about the club sandwich...?

(Sorry, my jokes are really bad...)


That is SWEEET! A man after my own taste.

_________________
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-------------------------------------------------------
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 11756

Thanks: 21
Thanked 109 Times in 105 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
65777 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostheart wrote:

Now, about Hashi...
Spoiler:
Few ken that he is an Insequent whose sole purpose was to materialize whenever the giantesses bathed, and peek at them from the bushes. At one point Bluntfist's keen eyes spotted him, and...for some reason, there's a page missing from my edition of AATE atthis point. Anyone aware of what befell?.


Some secrets are worth keeping. *innocent whistle*

michaelm wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
michaelm wrote:
I'd be interested to hear opinions.
Dude, you just walked into a vegan forum and asked if baby seal burgers are tasty. Smile

Or at least asked about the club sandwich...?


This is classic.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
michaelm
Kevin's Watchmaker

Male
Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 1454

Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: location, location
3559 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Covenant's Novels1 Earthblood1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well glad to know that my bad taste jokes don't offend too much... Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 17384

Thanks: 37
Thanked 173 Times in 166 Posts


20105 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pretty hard on the LC, but it does have a few amazing scenes, perhaps one or two per book.

However, the problems are deep, systemic, and irredeemable. It's not simply a case of people wishing for a different story, or having unreasonable expectations, or nostalgia for the earlier Chronicles. It has problems that would be an issue no matter which series or author this was. It's not just the anti-climactic, jump-the-shark, too-easy ending. There are 200 page spans where the characters do nothing but sit in one spot and recover from trials, while feeling angst-y. There are plot mechanics that are contrived for the sole purpose of keeping the reader ignorant in order to shock and awe later ... reasons that strain credulity in terms of the story itself, and blatantly call attention to the author's manipulation of the audience. There is a bewildering host of "bad guys," most of them largely off-screen for most of the time, and not a single one of which has a satisfying resolution to the conflict they add to the story, thus needlessly complicating things for sheer effect.

The main character of this story is there for less than half of it, perhaps less than a quarter of it. But apparently, it's his story. There is another main character who doesn't even become conscious--and thus, an actual character--until 75% of the way through this story. And then he adds nothing to the tale, except for some whining and then the jump-the-shark ending. There are other significant characters who add nothing except pointless death scenes (at least three), not to mention all the insignificant characters who exist for the same pointless reason.

The equivalent of the Sunbane this time around--the large scale threat to the Land (or one of them)--is barely noticeable (literally!), and hardly impacts the plot at all, except as a personal obstacle for Linden. But she can overcome it pretty easily, and does so repeatedly, like an afterthought.

The history of the Land is entirely rewritten to incorporate a race of characters invented solely for the LC, but we're supposed to accept that they were there throughout the Land's history the entire time. As expected, this produces (or exacerbates, calling attention to) significant plot holes and inconsistencies which even Donaldson himself has admitted.

Donaldson also admitted that the ending could have been written better. So the author that has been telling us for years that he writes his stories primarily for the ending, admits that he messed up the entire point of writing this Chronicles, namely, the ending.

So, you've been warned. Laughing
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Entire Chronicles All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch