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SWMNBN

 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: SWMNBN Reply with quote

I think that SWMNBN was the Creator's heart. The Creator from earlier chronicles was the mind of the Creator, split from its heart. Foul's 'deeper purpose' was to trap SWMNBN in the Earth when the Arch was destroyed, to destroy the Creator's heart.
If SWMNBN was named then it would make her recognise herself as the Creator and that would break the Arch.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. It's definitely not a solution in search of a problem, because we have never been given a reason why SRD said that learning her name would break the Arch (or be as bad as breaking it). So the problem is real, and needs some sort of solution.

I think She is supposed to be Linden, from clues in AATE and TLD. After all the other women exit She, Linden enters Her and She declares, "I am myself." So Linden has a moment like Covenant, wherein she accepts the dark part of herself. But the form of this acceptance is the reverse or counterpart of TC's acceptance. Rather than accepting Her into herself (as TC did with LF), Linden goes into She. It's still an identification with a 'deity' of sorts, but it takes the reverse form. And because of this, She can be let go to escape the Arch (because She is not contained within Linden, like Foul/Covenant). I think this represents Linden forgiving herself for all the harm she has caused--her sin, her evil acts--which gives her the ability to let it go. Her failures don't define her, as she tells Jeremiah.

So why would this break the Arch? Why could she only admit that She was Herself when the Arch was in the process of breaking? Perhaps it's because of the necessity of letting it go. Instead of letting her pain be trapped in time--a situation she experienced in the real world where she couldn't really move on productively in her life, where all her love was either directed at memory/ghost or an unresponsive son--she allowed it to escape this temporal trap and start looking forward to the future again. If she couldn't let it go, she would never have been able to endure admitting that She was Linden (herself). Holding on to the pain is what created the Bane.

Also, on the way out of the Arch, She strikes Foul. And since Foul is really the dark side of Covenant, then there was a part of Linden that didn't forgive Covenant, that still blamed him. I wish this had been developed in the text. It's not exactly clear what Covenant did to Linden except dying and leaving her alone. Well, he also left her to deal with his ex-wife, without explanation. But all this is very much in the background, the subtext. I wish there had been some discussion or confrontation out in the open, instead of all this being completely symbolic.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read TLD I experienced the sinking feeling that many on The Watch have expressed. About a year later I reread it, this time aloud, to my girlfriend. While doing this I experienced the story quite differently. The many things that seemed wrong before no longer seemed to be. Objectively I still think TLD is a weak conclusion to the chronicles and Donaldson could have done a better job, but I have now seen another side of it. [/list]
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simanent, I have thought on your proposal a while, and I see that it runs counter to some other things, but not some others. We know that the Creator has left (in an inheritance sense) the world to Covenant+Linden+Jeremiah. At the end, they embody the Creator. Perhaps She fleeing the world is the last vestige of the original Creator leaving ... but if so, then this inheritance necessitated breaking the Arch. Which is not a bad thought, I suppose. But I would have to wonder why Lord Foul left She alone, if She was an integral piece of the Creator. It seems like an opportunity for the Despiser to me.

Donaldson was asked about the role of She in relation to the main characters at the Elohimfest earlier this year. No one wrote down the answer, but hopefully the video will be available at some point.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always felt SWMNBN to be the feminine side of the Creator. Her presence is essential to creation. Her loss leaves the Creator unable to create, and to herself, the loss of her identity is such a profound agony that it turns her into the monster she is through all the Land's history up to that point.

As to the opportunity for Foul, I think he's been using her all along: sucking off her emanations as his power source. Thus her smack down of Foul not only is a physical blow of titanic proportions, it leaves him unable to recover, because She's taking his power source away with her.

As to She as a dark side of Linden, because Linden is so closely associated with TC, She is projected into that world from Linden's psyche just as Foul is from TC's. In TC's case, the Creator is the opposite projection from Foul, but dwells outside the world. For Linden, the opposite projection to She is She herself, but hidden, revealed only when She is restored to herself. Why that difference should be there other than as a plot device is anyone's guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She, as the Creator's heart is a good description when viewed in geographical terms. When Linden healed the Land at the end of White Gold Wielder her spirit grew and expanded to become the very mountain -
Mt.Thunder - also described as being like two hands joined in prayer. Linden's healing hands ?

The Soulsease River flows into the heart of the mountain, and seen from this side of the Land the Sunbirth Sea rises beyond that. The birth of the Sun seems a fitting end to a "Last Dark".
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