Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Status Anxieties

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> The Last Dark
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
peter
the aging savage


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 8144

Thanks: 39
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts


36959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Status Anxieties Reply with quote

Silly really, but what is the status of TC, Linden and Jeremiah at the end of the Chrons? They can't go home can they - what are they in the Land? Gods, normal people, what? Do they age, will jerry grow up, TC and Linden grow old together? How does it work?
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 19259

Thanks: 11
Thanked 227 Times in 209 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
44827 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In short, if you die in the real world while you're visiting the Land, you stay in the Land forever.

There is also the possibility that they can become (or already have become) something transcendental - that beings "from outside Time" aren't restricted to mundane mortality in the Land, that they are, in fact, unleashed.

In the Gradual Interview, Stephen R Donaldson wrote:
... But neither Troy nor Covenant actually died in the Land: rather they were transformed; became beings of an entirely different kind. In Troy's case, a series of transformations were involved, resulting in a new Forestal. In Covenant's case, the destruction of his mortality freed his spirit to support the Arch of Time (the fact that he retains some form of sentient identity is demonstrated by his ability to speak to Linden during her translation back to her "real" life). In both cases, huge powers were required to cause transformation instead of literal death. ...

(11/21/2004)

I don't think that there are specific answers provided by the author. But consider that Covenant has merged with both Lord Foul and (in a less explicit, more spiritual way) the Creator. I don't think such a person could not be special.

Personally, I choose to believe that they will be immortal, like forestals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
peter
the aging savage


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 8144

Thanks: 39
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts


36959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that if I over-think it, I get to places where I don't want to be and I guess that the best approach is to find an outcome that satisfies you and leave it at that. TC and Linden's very humanity is what draws me to them and I like the idea that they could retain some of this even in the altered state - they deserve this much at least. Jerry for his part has a life to live, and also requires more than to be frozen in time.......

But given the abilities they displayed at the end the world literally is their oyster and I guess in this respect their potential is unlimited.
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mighara Sovmadhi
A shadow on the heart of the Earth


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 1089

Thanks: 27
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Near where Broken Social Scene is gonna play on October 15th, 2010
10010 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well for some reason Covenant thinks they still need to train, and he thinks the Insequent are their best bet on this score, so whatever task they find for themselves would presumably last a long time. Even if not immortal, I suspect that they will be long-lived.

IDK what would happen when they died but I suspect Covenant would resume his station as the Timewarden, Linden could conceivably do the same, and as for Jeremiah...

I see Jeremiah pulling off some ridiculous but beautiful miracle, like returning to life in the "real" world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrPaul
Giantfriend


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 458

Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts


2457 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something else to remember is that after his resurrection by Linden at the end of FR, Covenant's leprosy is active again and is undermining his eyesight during AATE and most of TLD. His life expectancy would not be very long under those circumstances (and remember, too, that the action in the last two books all occurs over just a few days).

It is clear enough in the epilogue that Covenant is in better shape and is expecting to live much longer than if his leprosy were still active. This and other hints in the epilogue suggest that Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah have all experienced some transcendental transformation. Although we're not shown the specifics of what they do to save and restore the world after the Worm shatters the Arch of Time, we can confidently assume that it would have involved the greatest mustering of Earthpower by any beings other than the Creator - even greater than that of the Old Lords who lived for centuries and millennia as a result of their engagement with Earthpower.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrPaul
Giantfriend


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 458

Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts


2457 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mighara Sovmadhi wrote:
I see Jeremiah pulling off some ridiculous but beautiful miracle, like returning to life in the "real" world.


Why would he want to do that after he has achieved a long and sublime life with his loving mother and stepfather, and a blossoming of his abilities including the overcoming of his demons, in the remade Land? What would there be left for him in the "real" world that could match that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrPaul
Giantfriend


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 458

Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts


2457 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another issue raised by this thread.

In the Rubaiyyat of Omar Khayyam we find this verse:

Ah, Love! could thou and I with Fate conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire!
Would not we shatter it to bits-and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire!


In a way this is what Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah, struggling with Lord Foul and the Worm, have done. It then poses the question - in what ways might they have remoulded the world nearer to their hearts' desire? Which of the banes that Lord Foul planted, or that otherwise arose as a result of his imprisonment within Time, would they have eliminated or changed for the better in the course of restoring the world?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mighara Sovmadhi
A shadow on the heart of the Earth


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 1089

Thanks: 27
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: Near where Broken Social Scene is gonna play on October 15th, 2010
10010 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe to help his sisters Razz

Mwahahahaha, The Chronicles of Jeremiah's Unnamed Sisters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> The Last Dark All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch