Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Great Gap Reread
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Gap Series
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:06 pm    Post subject: The Great Gap Reread Reply with quote

Started November 2016, let's see how long it takes me. Haha.

When I read the series for the first time back in college, I remember reading them all over one summer. That was back in...2002 I think?

It may take a little longer now with a 9 month old. Haha.

Almost at the end of The Real Story. Just as good as I remembered it so far. I'll see if I can post some thoughts after I'm finished the first book.

Although I already ran into one of my favorite scenes.

"Captain Thermo-pile"

"It's pronounced ther-mop-a-lee"

Laughing Laughing Laughing

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished The Real Story. Some initial thoughts:

-Just as good as I remembered it so many years ago.
-It's interesting how SRD's writing as changed over the years. The writing for The Gap is just so crisp and dynamic. Compared to the Last Chronicles...
-It's interesting how little dialog is in The Real Story! I forgot about that.
-I like how SRD introduced ideas used later in the series, like the Gutbuster, although Sorus isn't mentioned by name.
-I forgot the Anmion aren't mentioned yet either.
-But the biggest thing I forgot about was how much time and detail was spent on the Angus-Morn relationship. Very complex character, Angus. I never really thought the first time I read through it how much he really cared for Morn, in his sick twisted mind.

Can't wait to start the next book...

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
StevieG
Andelainian

Male
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 3247

Thanks: 8
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts

Location: Australia
4767 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Angus was the main focus of the Real Story, from memory.

Interesting about SRD's writing style. I think it has progressed from the First Chronicles, through the Gap, to the Last Chronicles. The dialog, closely followed by the internal explanation is common in the Gap as well as the Last Chronicles. It's just expanded (a lot) in the LCs. Most of the Gap chapters, especially when the multiple POVs start, have a page or two about the character's current state of mind before the action continues. When reading the LCs, this felt to me like a progression from the Gap style.

The Gap also packs a whole series into a relatively short time span, similar to the Last Chronicles.
_________________
Hugs and sh!t!! ~ lucimay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 53576

Thanks: 71
Thanked 146 Times in 143 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
16966 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also remember the Gap was never meant to be a series. Very Happy It was a short story demonstrating how protagonists can change roles. How what you see from the outside isn't "The Real Story."

--A
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18419

Thanks: 11
Thanked 198 Times in 181 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
41399 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StevieG wrote:
Most of the Gap chapters, especially when the multiple POVs start, have a page or two about the character's current state of mind before the action continues.

Yes, it's as if Donaldson challenged himself to create a story with a dozen or so different points of view in order to understand how it is done. Until then, his fantasy series had been limited by a need to keep undisclosed the reality of most of the characters.

He also really worked at explaining motivations. Most of the time, the characters in the Gap cycle have motivations that would not be obvious. Each POV change provides an opportunity for motivations to be explored. Only by understanding why so many people do what they do does the story have coherence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reading the Epilogue to The Real Story still. Very fascinating.

I love his description of the "two ideas" he needs to make a good story.

And I forgot this was where he mentioned the "Lysol" inspiration for a scene in TPTP. Did we ever determine what that scene was exactly???

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Cord Hurn
Servant Of The Band

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 3904

Thanks: 889
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts

Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
2426 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Plains of Ra1 Furls Fire1 Andelain


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinswatch wrote:
I'm reading the Epilogue to The Real Story still. Very fascinating.

I love his description of the "two ideas" he needs to make a good story.

And I forgot this was where he mentioned the "Lysol" inspiration for a scene in TPTP. Did we ever determine what that scene was exactly???

-jay


Actually, I think we did, High Lord Jay! I asked SRD this very question at Elohimfest '14. His first reaction was, "I said THAT?!? I don't remember..."
And I said, "Oh, you did, it's right there in print." He seemed puzzled for a moment, so I tried to help jog his memory by saying something like, "Could it be the scene where Foamfollower is seen after being immersed in Hotash Slay, so that he is disinfected from all his self-doubts?" (I recall the room of Watchers erupting in laughter at this far-fetched guess of mine.)

SRD then replied [I'm just working from memory on this, so while the quotes are unlikely to be verbatim, they're close enough for relative accuracy--but Cameraman Jenn filmed the entire question-and answer session with SRD, so maybe we can all see it someday Cross Fingers ], "No, I remember looking at the can of Lysol, reading the ingredients for moment, and thinking of the word, putrescence, while I was reading. And that inspired the scene between Covenant, Lena, and Pietten where Pietten is confronted by Covenant as the one who betrayed all the injured Ranyhyn, for Covenant is realizing that Pietten's love for the Ranyhyn has been made to putrefy by what the ur-viles had done to him after the battle of Soaring Woodhelven."

So, seeing the can of Lysol in that convenience store bathroom inspired SRD to write out the confrontational scene in The Power That Preserves chapter 10, the chapter entitled, "Pariah".

In Chapter 10 of The Power That Preserves was wrote:
With his left hand, Covenant held her behind him. "You betrayed those coverts--you betrayed them all. You're the only one who could have done it. You killed the sentries and showed those marauders how to get in. No wonder you stink of blood."

"It pleases me."

"You betrayed the Ranyhyn!" Covenant raged. "Injured Ranyhyn got slaughtered!"

At this, Pietten jerked forward, brandished his spear viciously. "Hold your tongue, Ringthane!" he snapped. "Do not question my faith. I have fought--I would slay any living creature that raised its hands against the Ranyhyn."

"Do you call that faith? There were injured Ranyhyn in that covert, and they were butchered!"

"They were murdered by Ramen!" Pietten retorted redly. "Vermin! They pretend service to the Ranyhyn, but they do not take the Ranyhyn to the safety of the south. I hold no fealty for them." Lena tried to leap at Pietten again, but Covenant restrained her. "They are like you--and that Giant--and the Bloodguard! Pah! You feast on Ranyhyn-flesh like jackals!"


Granted, High Lord, this seems to me like quite a mental leap from seeing a spray can and writing a scene like that, but I've co-written so many technical science papers in my work that I have to admit I can't really grasp how a fiction writer's mind works anymore (assuming I ever could), I can't really grasp how such mental associations are arrived at. Anyway, I hope you found this helpful! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 18419

Thanks: 11
Thanked 198 Times in 181 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
41399 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: Lysol

The Lysol question was asked in the GI a couple of times. (Which leads me to doubt the sincerity of any "I don't remember".) But only Cord Hurn's question has ever elicited the connection to the word "putrescence" and how it applies to Pietten, AFAIK.

It's also worth noting that CH used the same trick on Donaldson that Lester Del Rey used to procure the Second Chronicles. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Thanked by: Shuram Gudatetris, Cord Hurn
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks CH and wf, I remembered we joked about Foamfollower and Hotash Slay being the scene, but I also remembered that wasn't the real answer.

But I don't recall hearing the true answer before. Probably since I never attended an Elohimfest. Wink

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I just finished the Epilogue to The Real Story. Very neat. Also I don't recall reading it after I first read the Gap in entirety, so when SRD summarizes The Ring Cycle in the Epilogue, all of the analogs to later characters in the Gap were lost to me. Now I'm able to see the connections better.

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 53576

Thanks: 71
Thanked 146 Times in 143 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
16966 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I loved the epilogue.

--A
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only a few chapters into Book 2. Slowed down by the holidays.

Still to this day when I read Nick Succorso's lines I can't help but envision him looking and sounding like this:



-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 53576

Thanks: 71
Thanked 146 Times in 143 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
16966 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha, that does not work for me at all. Very Happy

--A
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 16702

Thanks: 35
Thanked 169 Times in 162 Posts


13959 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picture someone like Sawyer from Lost. Or a Han Solo who not only shoots first, but is consumed by rage and jealousy in the end. With scars.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sorus
eternal antagonist

Female
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 11025

Thanks: 20
Thanked 34 Times in 34 Posts

Location: above the soil, and into the wind
19535 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Soar1 Pocket Knife


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy who played Sawyer was one of the top picks on the casting thread a few years back, championed by Elfgirl, who I believe did some Photoshop and whatnot to support the choice.
_________________

Burn your white flags
Refuse to surrender
And raise your red flags
To remember
To remember



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kevinswatch
"High" Lord

Male
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 5377

Thanks: 18
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts

Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
5516 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Raver1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never saw Lost, but I like the Han Solo analogy.

It's simply highly entertaining to read him as Zapp Brannigan. Haha.

"Kif, I have made it with a woman. Inform the men."

"Brannigan's law is like Brannigan's love. Hard and fast."

-jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sorus
eternal antagonist

Female
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 11025

Thanks: 20
Thanked 34 Times in 34 Posts

Location: above the soil, and into the wind
19535 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Soar1 Pocket Knife


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never really watched that show, but I guess I always saw Zapp Brannigan as more of a Captain Kirk parody. That could be totally wrong, though for not having watched the show, I absolutely read those lines in his voice. So who would Kif be?
_________________

Burn your white flags
Refuse to surrender
And raise your red flags
To remember
To remember



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shuram Gudatetris
Luxurator of In-Flux Crust Eruptions

Male
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 634

Thanks: 21
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

Location: Cameron, Missouri
2638 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lego1 Translation1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
RE: Lysol

It's also worth noting that CH used the same trick on Donaldson that Lester Del Rey used to procure the Second Chronicles. Very Happy

Big Grin

It's funny to me that Han Solo was a popular comparison for Succorso, because I've always seen him as Lando. A little different in the face, but same mustache and same outfit from Empire. Oddly enough, this strangely-faced Lando is the same character I picture when visualizing Prince Kragen.

I am currently re-reading the Gap Cycle, too. Almost finished with Forbidden Knowledge. I surprised myself by enjoying The Real Story more than I expected. Angus surprised me a little bit, too. I felt more sympathy for him than I wanted to. Also surprising for me is that I haven't enjoyed Forbidden Knowledge as much as I expected. It's actually been a drag, but I hope I get more into with the next one .

Actually, as I've typed this, I sort of realize why I haven't "enjoyed" FK very much. My perception of Morn has changed. I remember Morn as being more or less heroic in the story, but this time around, she seems much more of a victim, more than I've picked up on in the past. It's depressing.

Not that she doesn't act heroicly, just that her victimization seems much more extreme than I remember.
_________________
Covenant is Linden Frankenstein's monster.

I maxed-out Tetris!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 53576

Thanks: 71
Thanked 146 Times in 143 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
16966 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FK is probably my least favourite. And yes, SRD does make me feel sympathy for Angus in TRS. I've often thought one of his greatest skills as a writer lies in making the reader dislike characters one should feel sorry for, and sympathise with those one should hate.

--A
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Shuram Gudatetris
Luxurator of In-Flux Crust Eruptions

Male
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 634

Thanks: 21
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

Location: Cameron, Missouri
2638 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lego1 Translation1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished FK today, and that last chapter got me super-psyched for the rest of the saga. The stage is set! Wow, did that last chapter change the scope of the whole story, or what? Very Happy

Jay, are you still working on it? I hope you didn't put it down and forget about it. Confused
_________________
Covenant is Linden Frankenstein's monster.

I maxed-out Tetris!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Gap Series All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch