Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Recent Ban of a Member
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 19, 20, 21  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
peter
the aging savage


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 8302

Thanks: 40
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts


38670 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The viciousness of the polemic here is reflective of that which is becoming the norm in western society at large and I hate it. Can everyone just stand back a bit and take a deep breath. We are here to be amongst friends not to screw each other up. That doesn't mean we can't disagree or articulate difficult arguments - just that we need to respect each other while doing so. Be cool.

Please.
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 19332

Thanks: 19
Thanked 68 Times in 68 Posts

Location: Australia
37571 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Takes deep breath and blows kiss to Pete 😘

Nihilo ... saying ... tosser .... wasnt why Cail got banned and you well know that.

Kudos on the respect you have given Hashis request.

That is extremely admirable, and that respect shows the kind of human you are.
.......

Agreed Pete ♥️ we can all do better ♥️
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Lazy Luke
Bloodguard


Joined: 06 May 2018
Posts: 879

Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts


1784 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Takes deep breath and blows kiss to Pete 😘


LOL

LOLS sky 😂😂😂
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13598

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76320 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail nihilo wrote:
But allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a brief moment. Given the arc of Cail's last month here, and the conversations he was having about speech restrictions imposed by liberals, and given his choice of the word, "tosser" that got him banned, I'd posit that he knew what he was doing, and carried through to have his point made for him in a dramatic way. Given the reactions of a handful of posters, as well as Jay's reaction, Cail looks like Obi-Wan Kenobi, in that he got more powerful once he was struck down.

Your edict here is another example of exactly what he was talking about.


Truthfully, I don't disagree with you. In fact, if I were just a regular poster here I would be speaking out about the ban, myself. However, I am not just another poster but the mod, which means I have to take into account things such as "community harmony", "community standards", and so on. The best analogy would be that I am the mid-level manager who sometimes has to fire a floor-level employee to help trim our department's budget.

Don't forget--the ban happened while I was distracted looking for a job. I didn't even know about it for 3 days and I let it be known that I was upset about it being done "behind my back".

Now...that being said, let us let that be the last of it in public. For any more commentary we should resort to PM.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2103

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
22196 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Cail nihilo wrote:
But allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a brief moment. Given the arc of Cail's last month here, and the conversations he was having about speech restrictions imposed by liberals, and given his choice of the word, "tosser" that got him banned, I'd posit that he knew what he was doing, and carried through to have his point made for him in a dramatic way. Given the reactions of a handful of posters, as well as Jay's reaction, Cail looks like Obi-Wan Kenobi, in that he got more powerful once he was struck down.

Your edict here is another example of exactly what he was talking about.


Truthfully, I don't disagree with you. In fact, if I were just a regular poster here I would be speaking out about the ban, myself.

However, I am not just another poster but the mod, which means I have to take into account things such as "community harmony", "community standards", and so on. The best analogy would be that I am the mid-level manager who sometimes has to fire a floor-level employee to help trim our department's budget.

Don't forget--the ban happened while I was distracted looking for a job. I didn't even know about it for 3 days and I let it be known that I was upset about it being done "behind my back".

Now...that being said, let us let that be the last of it in public. For any more commentary we should resort to PM.
Let me completely ignore that exhortation... if only for a second.

I am both glad and frankly somewhat heartened to note your personal reaction to recent events, Hashi - as per the parts above that I italicised. I'd have been both surprised and disappointed - from what I know of your typical stance on things - if it had been anything otherwise.

I also acknowledge (but absolutely still don't support in the teensiest bit, a. because it was fucked up, b. plain wrong and c. because I don't have to... I am not a mod) the compromise that you seem - on balance and grudgingly - to have acceded to falling into step with.

Okay that's me done on this... for the time being.
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
sgt.null
jack of odd trades; master of fun

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 41471

Thanks: 44
Thanked 81 Times in 80 Posts

Location: texas
9984 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2007 Watchies1 2005 Watchies1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I've sat on the sidelines on this.
Sorry Hashi, I respect you but this
Has gone on way too long. A member
Was warned time and time again to
Stop with personal attacks. Said poster
Ignored said warnings. Then for some
Bizzare reason it becomes a thing.

Anyone has a problem with what went
On can cart themselves elsewhere.
This isn't a free speech issue. It is a
Community standards issue. You don't
Want to abide by the minimal standards
Here? Join Breitbart. That is as polite
As I'm going to be.
_________________
“life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Thanked by: aliantha
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Ego non semper sapiens

Male
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3291

Thanks: 38
Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts


9809 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record I've spent 30 minutes trying to change my avatar, and I keep getting errors. I'll try again tomorrow.

With that said, let's be blunt. Cail was not the most tactful person here. But the man made good, cogent, supported points. He was acerbic. He was offensive. But his positions were well-supported, and he forced others to defend their positions. I've said before that steel sharpens steel. Cail cut me down more times than I can count, but he also made me consider my positions.

Any political discussion worth its salt needs that kind of foil. I can never begin to be that person. I don't have the time to put into it, nor do I want to be the fly in the ointment that he was. I'd like to have him back. I don't know that he'd agree to it, and I know that he'd never be welcomed back regardless of the enormous legacy he has here.

But we're definitely diminished by his absence.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
ur-Nanothnir
100% Halal


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 1229

Thanks: 14
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: 🐋 Fuck the whales 🐋
5984 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us cease with the Cail discussions, Inshallah.
_________________
I am here because I am a fan of SRD's work. I disavow the blatant communist propaganda that pervades this site.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 19332

Thanks: 19
Thanked 68 Times in 68 Posts

Location: Australia
37571 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2103

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
22196 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sky, I think you missed out on the irony there. Anyhow...

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
For the record I've spent 30 minutes trying to change my avatar, and I keep getting errors. I'll try again tomorrow.
Watch out for having too long a signature (the warning message appearing after ages at the top of the page is very inconspicuous and a profile change just looks like it hasn't gone through). Also watch out for the max size of the avatar pic (200 x 200 max, I believe).

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
With that said, let's be blunt. Cail was not the most tactful person here. But the man made good, cogent, supported points. He was acerbic. He was offensive. But his positions were well-supported, and he forced others to defend their positions. I've said before that steel sharpens steel. Cail cut me down more times than I can count, but he also made me consider my positions.

Any political discussion worth its salt needs that kind of foil. I can never begin to be that person. I don't have the time to put into it, nor do I want to be the fly in the ointment that he was. I'd like to have him back. I don't know that he'd agree to it, and I know that he'd never be welcomed back regardless of the enormous legacy he has here.

But we're definitely diminished by his absence.
This. Absolutely. In spades.

And let us NOT cease with the Cail discussions - at least from a generalised point of view. Are some really saying that "Thou shalt not discuss certain topics"? Isn't that attempted agenda control and thus completely pernicious? As the Tank mod himself said:-
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Truthfully, I don't disagree with you. In fact, if I were just a regular poster here I would be speaking out about the ban, myself.
As I said before, an unsurprising and completely justifiable personal opinion from someone of a libertarian persuasion.

Okay if some are getting antsy and all "move on or get arrested" about Cail's banning specifically, it's surely perfectly justified against any defensible yardstick to generalise the "censorship for the alleged greater community good" issue and make it a conceptual one - especially in a forum with the stated purpose of the Tank. In fact, such a topic really deserves its own thread.

Should tonal style and choice of language (and especially in a text-based debating forum) really result in permanent censorship being applied? How does that stack up against the right to hold and express opinions - which should surely be encouraged? Isn't it enough that people "own" their words? And finally, who actually died?

As Ex has pretty much said above, disruption is not necessarily a bad thing. As both the worlds of tech and marketing theory have realised over recent years, disruption is a massively effective agent for change, evolution and advance. I too have no issue whatsoever in having my thoughts and opinions challenged - and in fact positively welcome such as being potentially illuminating and thus beneficial to me. That's far more positive than being smothered by happy clappy warm and fuzzy groupthink Kumbaya chorusing from a studiedly polite flock...
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Marcus Tullius Cicero
Servant of the Land


Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Posts: 11

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


33 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every community has the right to define and enforce decorum.

Decorum is explicit not intuitive.

Decorum is not respect.

Respect is not a birthright.

A lack of respect is not a lack of decorum unless it is directed ad hominem.

Proof of ignorance and sloth in argument pertains to discourse; it is not ad hominem per se.

One who exposes ignorance and sloth is not responsible for the inference of character drawn from his proofs.

The seeker of illumination may obfuscate this inference only by ignoring the ignorant and the slothful entirely.

Discourse confined to the illuminated serves no purpose.

Praise Kek, may his eschaton be immanentized with all speed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 19332

Thanks: 19
Thanked 68 Times in 68 Posts

Location: Australia
37571 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this Sammy? 😉

Ok TF yes Laughing I missed the sarchasm lol 😂

I hear what you are saying here .. you are all great Cail fans and more power to you. Ive been back at the Watch I dunno about a year now is it?

I mentioned once, that my experience with conservative thinking humans is definitely aggression, ad hominem attacks etc ... and Z replied that, my observation wasnt fair cos it wasnt across the board, it was just with one poster here, Cail.

Now Im not sure I completely agreed with Zs assessment. But he wasnt wrong. Sure Nihilo allegedly thrived having Cail to challenge him. Thats brilliant FOR HIM.

Not all do.

Id had a gut full of it .. it was gratuitous, unnecessary, it was aimed to control the conversation and shut opposition down AND I TOLD CAIL exactly that. I told him here and we exchanged pms precisely about that.

As hominem attacks are absolutely unnecessary, they do not foster debate, discussion, they shut it down. Well tbh it never shut me down because .. I dont take kindly to directions to fuck myself. Im NOT going to go quietly into the night and fuck off because you do not LIKE what I think.

Though apparently this has been a pattern of behaviour over a decade long .. and the result has absolutely been .. that opposing views have been SILENCED, SHUT DOWN, ridiculed, wearied of constant barrage of dismissive rhetoric and personal attacks.

If you or I perpetually treated fellow posters like shit for over a decade .. and the result is a conservative echo chamber. Congratulations thats exactly what you had ..

There was ne er a liberal in sight. I totally know cos a few months back ... where were they? Not so many here, hey?

As for me, pretty much flying the fixed wing liberal view plane solo.

And that was ok ... but not truly ideal. If you WANT an echo chamber do as Sarge rightly proffered .. there are conservative echo chambers that will welcome more like minded souls.

If you want to be a troll join a troll army.

This is a DISCUSSION board .. there are incredibly low and incredibly flexible standards here. You have great mods .. Av has already addressed the issue Hashi raised .. explaining that it wasnt behind his back .. and that he didnt KNOW that Hashi was away job hunting. Why would he?

My take is ... its not about topic censure its about maintaining the stability, operation and function of the board.

If you are against banning, is that the issue? Well suck it up cos its part of the terms of agreement .. and if its an anti banning issue generally... where were your voices when Esmer was banned which I understand Cail pushed for ... or Lord Foul or whoever else has been banned?

But its about your buddy, perhaps Cail is your alpha and as a pack your grieving, I dont know 🤷‍♀️

Though in truth I would have fought for Esmer, the little weirdo .. so I maybe get where your heads are ... but it was Avs decision as admin, and Jay has made it abundantly clear that it was a difficult decision that he too backed.

Id very much like the opportunity to talk with Cail, in case hes in any doubt about his choices and whether they could possibly have been deserving of the outcome.

You guys all talk about consequences of actions .. behaviour. Well you cant continue to breach the rules of engagement and expect that after a 10 long years pattern of behaviour.... you can literally evade the consequences, .. and it wasnt a shocker. there were gentle nudges .. then more .. dude pull your head in, more serious warnings.

How would you as an admin react when consistent cautions are ignored?

If I go to the pub every Friday and act like a complete prick, cause patrons to go elsewhere, get aggressive with fuckers that dinnae agree with me .. Im going to get black listed .. and it wouldnt likely take a fucking decade or more.

Id be out on my ass in short order .. likely the first night I fuck up. No one would give me a ten year waiver. Id be booted out .. and rightly so.

This is the adult world, right?
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'

EZBoard SURVIVOR


Last edited by Skyweir on Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:26 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Ego non semper sapiens

Male
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3291

Thanks: 38
Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts


9809 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the language he uses and his refusal to support his arguments, do you feel the same way about Vraith? I don't believe there's ever been a more profane poster here. And when anyone questions him, he insists he's correct and insults his critics.

What's the difference?
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2103

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
22196 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sky to my mind that's a reasonably argued post (largely)... which I disagree with (largely).

I have heard the name LF bandied around, but have never had or seen any interaction with him on any part of KW, so cannot comment.

I didn't know Esmer had been banned. He was a new one on me anyhow. Dunno if he turned up during my 3 year absence or even before I joined the watch. I just had him down as a deliberately obscure weirdo who added nothing to the debate.

And that's the absolutely core and crucial point to me... "adding to the debate". Sure I get that Cail was acerbic, confrontational and quite deliberately offensive at times - but at ALL times he "added to the debate" and thus enriched and broadened it.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about the shade of his politics or opinions - some I agreed with, some I didn't. This is not an issue of pack mentality - in fact it would be extremely easily arguable, given the events of the days just prior to his banning that the "pack mentality" ALL came from the other side. Anyhow...

If a poster is going to solely post in ancient Sanskrit, or solely post huge pictures that make the BB unreadable, then yep, I'd support a ban for that type of irrelevance or yes, "disruption".

But if a poster enriches the debate and posts his/her opinions, justifies them, or attempts rebuttals of others' arguments again with justification, I am bang on all for it - REGARDLESS of tone used. And of course, regardless of said poster's own political leanings. Supported/justified disruption of others' held ideas and opinions is to me IMPORTANT.

The tone used is to me utterly irrelevant, if the core content is of value - whether it meshes with my own world view, completely counters it, or anywhere in between.

Ex's point above about Vraith is also well made. (And I have absolutely no issue with Vraith's typical tone/style either). But it''s hard to see the difference... in fact, Cail always cited more sources in support of his opinions.
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 19332

Thanks: 19
Thanked 68 Times in 68 Posts

Location: Australia
37571 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you read my posts?

I use bad language when I feel inclined .. so whats that about?

Right? Its not about language only is it? Did you miss the decade of being a dick? Did you miss the ad hominem attacks .. right? THATS to my mind the sum of it.

But hey test it out for yourself .. 🤷‍♀️

Cail once said to me I wasnt EVIL .. and I dont believe Cail was EVIL .. but he was absolutely disrespectful to posters that did not agree with him.

So decorum, respect .. not attacking personally all positive skills to bring to a moderates internet community.
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 19332

Thanks: 19
Thanked 68 Times in 68 Posts

Location: Australia
37571 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching a fucking hilarious movie The Ballad of Buster Scruggs
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
sgt.null
jack of odd trades; master of fun

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 41471

Thanks: 44
Thanked 81 Times in 80 Posts

Location: texas
9984 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2007 Watchies1 2005 Watchies1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do wish people didn't cuss here.
_________________
“life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

Ranyhyn
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 5864

Thanks: 24
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts


17580 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Forbidding1 Giant Ship1 Giant


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
With that said, let's be blunt. Cail was not the most tactful person here. But the man made good, cogent, supported points. He was acerbic. He was offensive. But his positions were well-supported, and he forced others to defend their positions. I've said before that steel sharpens steel. Cail cut me down more times than I can count, but he also made me consider my positions.

Any political discussion worth its salt needs that kind of foil. I can never begin to be that person. I don't have the time to put into it, nor do I want to be the fly in the ointment that he was. I'd like to have him back. I don't know that he'd agree to it, and I know that he'd never be welcomed back regardless of the enormous legacy he has here.

But we're definitely diminished by his absence.
This. Absolutely. In spades.

And let us NOT cease with the Cail discussions - at least from a generalised point of view. Are some really saying that "Thou shalt not discuss certain topics"? Isn't that attempted agenda control and thus completely pernicious? As the Tank mod himself said:-
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Truthfully, I don't disagree with you. In fact, if I were just a regular poster here I would be speaking out about the ban, myself.
As I said before, an unsurprising and completely justifiable personal opinion from someone of a libertarian persuasion.

Okay if some are getting antsy and all "move on or get arrested" about Cail's banning specifically, it's surely perfectly justified against any defensible yardstick to generalise the "censorship for the alleged greater community good" issue [/quote]

QFT!!!

More on topic. Abortions bad! Off topic. Orange man good!! Censorship bad!!
_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skyweir
Lord of Light


Joined: 16 Mar 2002
Posts: 19332

Thanks: 19
Thanked 68 Times in 68 Posts

Location: Australia
37571 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord's Staff1 Oath of Peace1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarge if my cussing bothers you Im ok with reframing but I may slip from time to time.

What is the endgame? What is the point? First are you even reading what doesnt accord with the view you want?

I think I will a anacronise .. hopefully thats acceptable. Not sure I completely followed your post SB.

Are you being censored because the admins AND the mods have asked us not to rehash the situation?

Because whats done is done? Because you think you will achieve Cails unbanning? Is it a temporary ban or a permanent ban?

If its a temporary ban do you imagine that stirring the pot and seeing discord is useful either way?

Do you imagine Cail is hoping for discord? To return?

If its a permanent ban .. is the gameplan to lobby the admins to overturn their decision?

Noting that its Jays forum, not Cails, or yours or mine. It was pretty clear what the owner operators think on this subject. Unless you were not paying attention I guess.

Have any of you actually talked to Cail and asked him what he wants? And hypothetically lets say Cail does return . he will be required to refrain from ad hominem attacks and being a douche bag right? How is that going to fly?

I get it youre bent out of shape .. yet both Av and Jay have made their position crystal clear. If youre honest its not unreasonable or even unexpected outcome .. Cail May be surprised that finally his cavalier behaviour has been pulled up.

He got away with being a dick for years .. cant imagine a fairer trot given anyone.

At every stage, Cail could have changed the way he interacted .. but chose not to. Its squarely on him.

How do you not get that, is what I dont get ____

Oh and getting personal does not a great contribution make .. its not a value add. The Watch is not made better by ad hominem attacks .. they dontefly in debates . Its lLAZY and INARTICULATE .. if youre incapable of expressing your points, or despise someone's thinking or their positions .. address THAT.

Cail had a brilliant quote in his sig block

Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_________________
health and healing

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2103

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
22196 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Have you read my posts?
Let's not start that again... you know I have.

Skyweir wrote:
I use bad language when I feel inclined .. so whats that about?
I've not mentioned language at all. I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about the language people choose to use.

Skyweir wrote:
Right? Its not about language only is it?
No it's absolutely not just about language. To me, it's NOT AT ALL all about language. That'd be totally irrelevant and not worth mentioning.

I mentioned tone, rather than language (tone being a superset of language) - but to my mind, tone is ALSO ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT, when weighed up against the validity and worth of the content posted.

Skyweir wrote:
Did you miss the decade of being a dick? Did you miss the ad hominem attacks .. right? THATS to my mind the sum of it.

Cail once said to me I wasnt EVIL .. and I dont believe Cail was EVIL .. but he was absolutely disrespectful to posters that did not agree with him.
"Being a dick" is with respect a rather subjective comment. To coin an unfortunate phrase, one man's dick is another's impassioned debater.

Furthermore, I see repeated ad hominem attacks from plenty of others. Have you read some of the recent posts in the Mueller thread for one?

Not that ad hominem attacks particularly bother me personally, because they tend to be just a sign of having no justification for one's position. But I can acknowledge that they may get a little wearying.

I'm still saying that providing one justifies one's opinion and the content one posts is cogent and genuinely thought-provoking, anything else is just irrelevant and insignificant window dressing that people really shouldn't get hung up about... presuming that's their problem, rather than anything agenda-led.

And I am keeping this GENERIC and NOT making this about Cail. I have no idea what he wants and have no agenda regarding him, but that's got nothing to do with my point.

Oh and this...
Skyweir wrote:
he will be required to refrain from ad hominem attacks and being a douche bag right?
...made me chuckle out loud. Nothing ad hominem in there at all, eh? Or does the absence of the hominem target make the attack justifiable? De mortuis nihil nisi malum apparently.

Plus... who gets to decide who's a douche bag and publicly name them as such, whether to their face or not? Either everyone or no-one would seem fairest...
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 19, 20, 21  Next
Page 1 of 21

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch