Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Recent Ban of a Member
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18098

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


27085 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
As for the rest of you...

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
You guys sure do bicker a lot, don't you?


This is a debate forum. For politics.

Have you ever seen any political forum where people don't bicker? I wouldn't say that we do it "a lot." Probably quite a bit less than other places where politics are debated.

Regardless, criticizing/judging people for bickering--including stating it twice, since you didn't get the reaction you'd hoped for the first time, apparently--is just another form of bickering, isn't it?

Welcome to the Tank.

Now, add something worthwhile, and I'll be mildly impressed. Continue poking/judging people whom you don't know, people who have 15+ years of history, relationships, conflict, and my opinion of you will likely remain about the same . . . quite low so far. But I'm the Tank's optimist! I think you can do better.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FindailsCrispyPancakes
Neutral


Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 207

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


726 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
As for the rest of you...

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
You guys sure do bicker a lot, don't you?


This is a debate forum. For politics.

Have you ever seen any political forum where people don't bicker? I wouldn't say that we do it "a lot." Probably quite a bit less than other places where politics are debated.

Regardless, criticizing/judging people for bickering--including stating it twice, since you didn't get the reaction you'd hoped for the first time, apparently--is just another form of bickering, isn't it?

Welcome to the Tank.

Now, add something worthwhile, and I'll be mildly impressed. Continue poking/judging people whom you don't know, people who have 15+ years of history, relationships, conflict, and my opinion of you will likely remain about the same . . . quite low so far. But I'm the Tank's optimist! I think you can do better.


Whatever. This thread is full of people bickering over something that isn't going to change and that's funny enough to mention twice.

If this guy Cail was all people say he is then he'd be laughing at this nonsense too. So I'll say it a third time.

Bicker a lot, dont you?

As for you Zarathustra... pick fights a lot do you?

I've not checked any of your posts out yet, but I'm willing to bet you pick a lot of fights, especially with new people.

I don't care if you've been here since the place started. Not a single one of my posts has been aimed at any poster here in particular. YOU are the only person who has been deranged enough to interpret them that way. Either you get a kick from starting fights or you just have the major horn for me.

Either way, go and pick your fights somewhere else. That's 3 threads in a row you've done this now. Your tactic of closing down discussion by dismissing any comment a new poster makes and then attacking them is old and tired and I've seen it too many times to engage with you.

Please leave me alone. I no longer have any interest in responding to anything you say.

*click*
*beeeeeep*
*the caller you have dialled no longer gives a toss*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2018

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
21525 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whereas I of all people understand the temptation for peacocking - ensuring one makes a deliberately conspicuous and dramatic entrance is such fun, eh? - I'd suggest that you may have hold of the wrong end of the stick here, FCP.

To more than a few here, the issues raised in this specific thread do not in the least directly concern the ban of an individual forum member, though that was doubtless the primum mobile leading to the discussion of much wider conceptual - rather than specific - themes. Ideological protectionism, censorship, free speech and potential limitations of such, groupthink, the validity or not of an adversarial/dialectical method in debate - plenty of weighty concepts to pick over there.

You of course are entirely at liberty to define such a discussion as "nonsense" if that's your opinion. But doing so based both on an entire lack of experience of events and a mere skim-read of this thread would seem to risk being foolhardy, let alone contemptuously authoritarian.

I've found that within a wide-ranging discussion forum, it's probably more suitable to let a forum's members decide for themselves which topics they feel worthy of discussion and then to participate or not, according to one's preference. This would seem a good deal more appropriate than tritely and kneejerkishly rushing to peremptory and necessarily shallowly informed dismissive judgement. Studied and supercilious contempt truly is a schtick that's been seen a million times before on a thousand web forums - and one that engenders nothing apart from a yawn.

Just my two pence worth, now...
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie

Male
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 2369

Thanks: 18
Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts


7912 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

SoulBiter wrote:
[...]

Edit to add - I think I have said all I have to say on this matter. ...


Applaud
_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

Ranyhyn
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 5782

Thanks: 24
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts


17226 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Forbidding1 Giant Ship1 Giant


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

SoulBiter wrote:
[...]

Edit to add - I think I have said all I have to say on this matter. ...


Applaud



That all you got? Rolling Eyes
_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cagliostro
Bandwagon Puppet

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 9047

Thanks: 20
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts

Location: Colorado
5803 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 I Love KW1 Covenant's Novels3 Tranquil Hegemony


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoulBiter wrote:
Cag - Since you went ahead and found some I don't see any reason to look at the rest. It doesn't matter how you phrase it, it means the same thing. It doesn't matter to me which side of the political spectrum here that comes from. It still the same to me.

Quote:
The WATCH made its call .. but up, move on or dont... thats YOUR CALL. There are places I am sure that welcome senseless, pointless trolling. Its done.



Have you considered that if you (and the others) had not made statements like the above, that most of us would have let this go long ago and moved on to continue to post as was the norm, on our own?

Edit to add - I think I have said all I have to say on this matter. It feels all so much like we are talking in circles but not hearing each other. I don't know what I expected from this.. maybe an acknowledgement that the whole thing could have been handled better. In RL I manage Managers. I would give a poor review to the management of this situation.


Yeah, I don't know what you want either. I'm only speaking for myself because I don't feel an authority on what other people think, unlike what seems so common around these parts. The evidence I had was that it was a long time coming, warnings given, but please, again, ignore this part because it doesn't fit in with the victimization and martyrdom of Cail.
Look - we aren't paid to do the HR work. We aren't trained to be managers of people. We are just fans that somehow rubbed someone the right way to be trusted to maintain our little piece or pieces of the forum. We're here because we enjoy or have enjoyed the community and feel a sense of attachment to it. We want it to succeed and bring in new people. And we don't want to drive away new members, which was demonstrated in this very thread, and maybe this very page.
So what did Cail's banning achieve now that we are three months in? I don't really see much change to be honest. Mainly because so many are trying to be Cail in his absence. So does this mean we ban everybody that acts just like him? No, because despite your accusations of us shutting down dissent, it blatantly isn't the case. I wasted 6 hours of my life yesterday combing through statements in this thread to try to find something to prop up your argument, and I found next to nothing.
I changed the bold in Sky's statement to demonstrate what I was saying - she said it is your choice what you want to do with your time, and not "shut up or leave." Sky is not a mod here. I'd argue it didn't need to be said. I don't know Hashi much at all, but I got the feeling he didn't want this thread to exist because he knew it would turn into this: a wound that keeps being picked at. I suggested in the mod forum that we create this thread so that it wasn't just a "it's done, and we're not talking about it" feeling. I felt this needed to be hashed out, but maybe I was wrong.
Again, I am saying all this as myself - not as a spokesman for the mods and admins, and their views are not necessarily mine. I voted for a temp ban for Cail, and if I had my way, he would be back again by now. Would this have improved things? I absolutely doubt it, because he had been given warnings in the past. I fully expected to revisit this at a later date.
Did I vote for this to bring back the former members? I didn't honestly believe that would have much effect for long, as once people move on, they tend to stay gone. I was hoping it would encourage more new people to contribute and that we wouldn't drum them away, but alas. I didn't anticipate any real change 3 months later, especially since the backlash is still in effect, and we still have people blatantly trying to rile each other up.
So how do we hug this out and get through this? I dunno. I'm open to suggestions. Obviously rehashing this and lobbing demonstrably false accusations doesn't seem to be healing much. I very much doubt reinstatement of Cail is possible at this point. Do you want us to admit we made mistakes in how this was handled? Shit, Luther, we're human, ain't we? I personally have no HR training, but one of my friends does. Do you think every court case that the jury makes the right decision 100% of the time? As we are real people, and everyone has their own opinion, I think it was pretty fair, truth be told. I'm not going to apologize as I think it is the best we could do.
Put yourself in our shoes for a minute. How would you deal with a Harvey Weinstein (I want to state for the record that Cail's actions were NOTHING like what Harvey did, and I don't mean to make an inference with him with Cail other than the repeated complaints)? Do you keep letting it go because of what this person means to the forum? When is enough enough? Honestly, it just happens one day. I don't know what finally brought Harvey down, but I'm guessing it wasn't a big egregious act like flapping his dick at the Queen of England or something that everybody would be on board with. Same thing here. It just finally was enough. A knowledge that actions will never change, that we'll keep hearing about it until something was done.
I'm also an optimist, despite accusations to the contrary. I see this eventually blowing over and everything calming down and us maybe eventually getting new blood that re-invigorates this place. It all moves in waves, just like the workplace. Sometimes you have tons of people around that you love being around, and other times you have to wait until things improve. Or you just quit and get another job. But I tend to stay at jobs too long....
_________________

Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
So get wasted all of the time
And you'll have the time of your life
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
High Lord Tolkien
Excommunicated Member of THOOLAH

Male
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 6898

Thanks: 14
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: Cape Cod, Mass
2267 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Lord Mhoram's Victory


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
As for the rest of you...

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
You guys sure do bicker a lot, don't you?


This is a debate forum. For politics.

Have you ever seen any political forum where people don't bicker? I wouldn't say that we do it "a lot." Probably quite a bit less than other places where politics are debated.


He's not wrong though. Very Happy

Zarathustra wrote:
Regardless, criticizing/judging people for bickering--including stating it twice, since you didn't get the reaction you'd hoped for the first time, apparently--is just another form of bickering, isn't it?


And you nailed that one. Thumbs Up

Zarathustra wrote:
Welcome to the Tank.



_________________
http://thoolah.blogspot.com/



[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18098

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


27085 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
Either way, go and pick your fights somewhere else. That's 3 threads in a row you've done this now. Your tactic of closing down discussion by dismissing any comment a new poster makes and then attacking them is old and tired and I've seen it too many times to engage with you.



You came into two of my threads and basically said, "The only people who believe this stuff are morons who watch too much Star Trek," and you think I'm the one who picked the fight?

Not very self-aware, are you?

I think you're used to being the smartest person in the room (or thinking that you are) and talking down to people, and not used to people pushing back against your arrogance. As soon as someone does, you want to run away.

Every single post of yours that I've read includes some version of calling people whom you don't know stupid. You seem to have a fetish for belittling the intelligence of others:

Quote:
Seeing as your great nation is currently under the management of that very stable genius (who only this last week explained to the world how the Moon is a part of Mars), I'm genuinely wondering if such a mental giant should be the person you back in your forthcoming economic/military warfare endeavours.

. . .

After all, if a guy that smart only has access to the world's largest military and all those thermonuclear weapons... you don't really stand much of a chance.


Quote:
The people of Britain still seem to be incapable of grasping the basic concept that politicians constantly lie to them and steal from them. Due to their failure to understand this simple principle, they have divided themselves into two tribes: left and right.


Quote:
In the decades that followed, the British psyche somehow failed to adapt and acknowledge Britain's place in the world was not what it had been in the 19th century.

Despite Britain not growing enough food to feed its population and growing increasingly reliant on cheap foreign labour, the mentality remained. The delusions continued.


Quote:
As for spacecraft travelling through wormholes... that's a ridiculous suggestion normally made by people who watch too much Star Trek and have no idea what a wormhole (Einstein-Rosen bridge) is.


Quote:
This sort of thing normally starts when people fail to understand sensationalised magazine articles about the Holographic Principle, which is commonly interpreted to mean "Dude, the universe could be a hologram or a computer simulation!"


It doesn't matter if it's the world's most powerful man, the entire population of Britain, or people you just "met" here on the Watch, you are smarter than everyone, in your mind. And gosh darnit, you want people to know! You have only 21 posts here so far, but after randomly sampling roughly a quarter of them, every single one I've read involves you belittling people's intelligence. Granted, I've recently complained about some here being "dumb as a rock," but that's one post out of 18,000. I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt and allow them the chance to earn my respect. After all, I did say that I think you can do better. But your first impression rubs me the wrong way.

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
Please leave me alone. I no longer have any interest in responding to anything you say.

*click*
*beeeeeep*
*the caller you have dialled no longer gives a toss*
You can't lay accusations at my feet and then deny me the chance to respond. That's cowardly and (as TheFallen says) authoritarian. This desire to control others' speech is exactly what this "bickering" thread is about. It doesn't surprise me in the least which side of the fence you're on for that issue (which might explain why you don't think this subject is a big deal). You want your say, but want to deny others their own. Typical Leftist.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

Ranyhyn
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 5782

Thanks: 24
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts


17226 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Forbidding1 Giant Ship1 Giant


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cagliostro wrote:

Put yourself in our shoes for a minute. .


Cag, you have put alot of actual effort into responding and as such I feel I owe you that response.

I don't doubt that the Cail situation needed to be addressed. I know I have said so, Z has said so and heck,... even Cail said so. So if you don't mind, you can take that off the table of things that I have been pissed off about.

I don't own this board or mod anywhere on this board. Nor do I want to. The rules aren't mine and neither is the punishment that is meted out. However as I said, I personally would have opted at least once for a temporary ban. Maybe 3 to 6 months. Just to allow a cooling off period and maybe some time to reflect. That in itself would be enough to show that the mods are serious about enforcing the civility rules and to give an errant poster the right kind of chance to turn things around. But then if there were further infractions, within a certain time period, then sure I could see a full on ban.

Hindsight is always 2020 (Some would say "then get your head out of your ass", LOL) But a couple of fairly simple things. This was made into a circus and it shouldn't have been. My perception is that the circus was done purposely to make a point. I know some are going to disagree but its pretty obvious that it got out that Cail was going to be banned and people came to watch the show. Maybe it was supposed to be some sort of Catharsis for them. Frankly that was the single largest mistake made.

Most of us were ready to move on and then a few posters started intimating that we should stop talking about it. Get over it. Move on or leave if that is what you want. As you say, Sky isn't a mod but its pretty obvious that because she helped to start this board originally her voice carries weight with the mods and with KW. For some maybe she was their champion against the person others had a beef with that felt wronged. At the very least she and those people could have been a hell of a lot less smug about the whole thing.

In my opinion there has been almost no admission of things being handled wrong and no recognition of understanding of my and others points. Its just been deflection and defensiveness. As a Manager, I have had to say on occasion. " You are right. The decision on Cail we stand by, but other parts were handled that poorly. We will do better and learn from that." That simple admission goes a long way. Cag your previous post was the first admission of such that I can remember seeing. Thank you for that.

Granted that this isn't a business and no one is an HR expert here. But anyone with any leadership training at all would know, not to do those things in that way. So, with that, I am at work and need my job so I need to log off and do the things that keep the bills paid.
_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch


Last edited by SoulBiter on Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2018

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
21525 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Precisely SB. The point continually being missed here FWIW is that it's not about ongoing disquiet at Cail's ban in and of itself. It's about ongoing disquiet at how that event was handled and ongoing disquiet at what that event conceptually represents.

Sure the chances of Cail's ban being rescinded are vanishingly remote and frankly if I were him, I wouldn't bother returning, even if it was. But that's all entirely beside the point.

Anyone can pull out and play the "What's done is done - move along now. Nothing to see here any more " card - ironically, including those with absolutely no forum-awarded authority from which to pronounce - and that card's utterly irrelevant.

You might as well maintain that there's no point protesting about any event that has taken place, solely because it has taken place. That would be ludicrous in the extreme.

Furthermore, if there are those who choose to vehemently disagree with what they believe such a banning to represent (rather than the event itself), then continually playing the above card is going to be inflammatory... as is claiming that those so protesting are "trolling", manufacturing "faux indignation" or in some way "acting beneath themselves".

Frankly, if I was in the least bit bothered about ad hominem attacks, I'd categorically state that the above-quoted real-world ad hominem attacks (go look, if you can be bothered) are a great deal more offensive than repeatedly being called a "tosser" or repeatedly being told to go have carnal knowledge of a sheep.

Oh and a small point-ette of order on this one, Cag - re those entrusted with maintaining little pieces of the Watch? The ban enacted wasn't in any way a result of a contravention of the rules of the Tank as currently defined by its appointed Mod.

PS Zee, it's just trite self-aggrandizing, aka "I demand you look at me! Look at me displaying my cerebral chops! I'm L'Oreal! I'm so worth it!" peacocking. Hardly high up the socializing skills ladder when entering a new environment (or indeed at any other time, for that matter), but hey, each to his or her own.
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
ur-Nanothnir
100% Halal


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 995

Thanks: 14
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

Location: 🐋 Fuck the whales 🐋
5253 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z it's the Elliot Rodger complex.
_________________
I am here because I am a fan of SRD's work. I disavow the blatant communist propaganda that pervades this site.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FindailsCrispyPancakes
Neutral


Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 207

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


726 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
As for the rest of you...

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
You guys sure do bicker a lot, don't you?


This is a debate forum. For politics.

Have you ever seen any political forum where people don't bicker? I wouldn't say that we do it "a lot." Probably quite a bit less than other places where politics are debated.

Regardless, criticizing/judging people for bickering--including stating it twice, since you didn't get the reaction you'd hoped for the first time, apparently--is just another form of bickering, isn't it?

Welcome to the Tank.

Now, add something worthwhile, and I'll be mildly impressed. Continue poking/judging people whom you don't know, people who have 15+ years of history, relationships, conflict, and my opinion of you will likely remain about the same . . . quite low so far. But I'm the Tank's optimist! I think you can do better.


REPETITION #2 OF MY LAST COMMUNICATION WITH YOU, IN CASE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT NOT BOTHERING WITH YOU ANY MORE MEANS

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
*click*
*beeeeeep*
*the caller you have dialled no longer gives a toss*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FindailsCrispyPancakes
Neutral


Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 207

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


726 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello and thank you to the rest of you who said hi and welcome.

I get the basic principle of the place and I have no axe to grind with anyone who enters a debate without the point of view that opposing viewpoints must be silenced without proper examination.

If you play hard and it's nothing personal that's cool with me. If I'm wrong about something I feel no shame in standing corrected. It's how we learn. I've got nothing but respect for people who keep a forum of that nature going for this long.

By the same token, just because a poster has been here for years doesn't mean I'm going to wate my time exchanging pointless arguments with them when all they want is someone to fight. If you get a kick from that sort of nonsense then your life expectancy with me is about 3 posts. Life is too short.

If my refusal to entertain somebody who's basically just picking petty fights for the sake of it bothers anyone then tough. If that's how you get your kicks then go bark at a different tree.

CORRECTION: Changed 'no axe to grind with anyone who enters a debate with the point of view ' to 'no axe to grind with anyone who enters a debate without the point of view '


Last edited by FindailsCrispyPancakes on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry

Male
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 2018

Thanks: 32
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts

Location: Guildford, UK
21525 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
Hello and thank you to the rest of you who said hi and welcome.
Well, that's a tad more encouraging. Neck wound in a little.

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
I get the basic principle of the place and I have no axe to grind with anyone who enters a debate with the point of view that opposing viewpoints must be silenced without proper examination.
Really? Those are the exact sort of people that tend to get me grinding my axe...

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
If you play hard and it's nothing personal that's cool with me. If I'm wrong about something I feel no shame in standing corrected. It's how we learn. I've got nothing but respect for people who keep a forum of that nature going for this long.
Very reasonable.

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
By the same token, just because a poster has been here for years doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time exchanging pointless arguments with them when all they want is someone to fight. If you get a kick from that sort of nonsense then your life expectancy with me is about 3 posts. Life is too short.
Again reasonable, but solely predicated on a) having some awareness of how oneself might be coming across and being interpreted and b) having correctly evaluated the motives and intentions of whoever you believe has rattled your cage.

I'd suggest that you might wish to consider garnering a tad more experiential evidence on this over and above an effectively kneejerk judgement based on a self-set maximum of just three posts. Because if you misinterpret, you risk ending up looking like a bit of a prat.

Just a thought now...
_________________
Censorship of any sort - let alone the savage irony in censoring those who argue that some look to control the agenda and debate through the very use of prejudicial censorship - demeans this place.



"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
* I occasionally post things here because I am a fan of SRD.

This should not be considered as any condoning of the hypocritical, snowflake, bleeding heart, white guilt-ridden, compulsively virtue-signalling and totalitarian prog Left woke zealotry which some try to force upon this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
FindailsCrispyPancakes
Neutral


Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 207

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


726 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheFallen wrote:
FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
Hello and thank you to the rest of you who said hi and welcome.
Well, that's a tad more encouraging. Neck wound in a little.

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
I get the basic principle of the place and I have no axe to grind with anyone who enters a debate with the point of view that opposing viewpoints must be silenced without proper examination.
Really? Those are the exact sort of people that tend to get me grinding my axe...

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
If you play hard and it's nothing personal that's cool with me. If I'm wrong about something I feel no shame in standing corrected. It's how we learn. I've got nothing but respect for people who keep a forum of that nature going for this long.
Very reasonable.

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:
By the same token, just because a poster has been here for years doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time exchanging pointless arguments with them when all they want is someone to fight. If you get a kick from that sort of nonsense then your life expectancy with me is about 3 posts. Life is too short.
Again reasonable, but solely predicated on a) having some awareness of how oneself might be coming across and being interpreted and b) having correctly evaluated the motives and intentions of whoever you believe has rattled your cage.

I'd suggest that you might wish to consider garnering a tad more experiential evidence on this over and above an effectively kneejerk judgement based on a self-set maximum of just three posts. Because if you misinterpret, you risk ending up looking like a bit of a prat.

Just a thought now...


Your thoughts are welcome. However, just like you I have my own subjective ideas about who's behaving like a prat or who thinks they're some sort of wise old jedi.

And I would point out that the same applies to everyone here. Unless we ALL practice what we preach we all look like prats in glass houses throwing stones. Yourself included.

Just a thought now...

EDITS: to correct typos/improve dreadful syntax


Last edited by FindailsCrispyPancakes on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13220

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
74116 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cagliostro wrote:
I don't know Hashi much at all, but I got the feeling he didn't want this thread to exist because he knew it would turn into this: a wound that keeps being picked at. I suggested in the mod forum that we create this thread so that it wasn't just a "it's done, and we're not talking about it" feeling. I felt this needed to be hashed out, but maybe I was wrong.


Initially, I did object because I knew it would be a wild free-for-all of baseless accusations and I even once voiced my opinion of closing the thread, forbidding discussion of the topic until someone threw my own ideals/principles back in my face. At that point, my dedication to "free speech" was more important and either I had to be true to myself or turn into a despot. I opted to remain true to myself--I may not like the thread but at least my decisions don't tug any guilty strings attached to my conscience.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FindailsCrispyPancakes
Neutral


Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 207

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


726 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
...At that point, my dedication to "free speech" was more important and either I had to be true to myself or turn into a despot. I opted to remain true to myself--I may not like the thread but at least my decisions don't tug any guilty strings attached to my conscience.


You couldn't have made any other decision, Haishi. It's the only honourable thing to do under the circumstances.

I certainly don't like this thread but I'm glad it exists. I'm going to come back here and read through it from time to time. Regrettably, I never had the pleasure of debating anything with Cail (or even saying hello to the guy), but it seems he was considered to be a bit of a 'big deal' here.

From what I can gather, the reason he got booted (whether rightly or wrongly) was he stopped debating ideas and started attacking anything the person he was focused on said or did.

Many people here consider this to be hypocritical and I can see why. As much as I find the use of Latin in everyday parlance pretentious, I have no choice but to point out what I just did was describe a behavioural pattern of launching into an Ad Hominem attack.

Just because you don't agree with somebody or they made a joke that bothered you, it does not give you the right to lecture them on their behaviour and act as if yours is in some way superior.

If somebody made a point you don't like, shoot it down. But shoot the point, not the person.

If somebody posted something you don't like, focus on the parts you take issue with. Don't just launch into an assault on everything they said without thinking, even if you are a 'big deal' here.

If your immediate reaction to somebody disagreeing with you is outright anger and Ad Hominem attacks then that's something you've got to deal with.

As somebody who just got here, I can see this sort of thing is considered normal for some people. I've just encountered it myself. In almost 20 years of doing this sort of stuff online I've only ever had to flat out stop bothering with 5 individuals on a board like this.

I regret the fact that I just had to make that 6, but I know when the forum pissing contest addict has found me. I'm not interested.

I look forward to seeing you all on other threads. I am happy to discuss and debate anything with any of you, with one obvious exception. If you choose to take that personally because he's a friend of yours then too bad. I'm a man of my word and as far as he's concerned I will not budge.

I may question your logic and your arguments, but not your personal morals or behaviour... unless you question mine first, in which case you should have known better than to start with that nonsense.

If you're cracking jokes and indulging in a bit of playful banter, count me in. I'm no shrinking violet. Just be aware I'm not a Liberal or a Conservative or an athiest or a god fearing man or any of those other flags of convenience that are so comfortable to hide behind. I'm not ashamed to say 'I don't know' and stand corrected if you're right and I'm wrong, but I expect the same of you.

If you want to discuss and/or debate something with me then do so. You have nothing to fear from me, whatever your take on life.

But if all you're got is virtue signalling and telling me 'wind your neck in' when yours is already fully extended, I'm probably the wrong guy.

I have no further contribution to make to this thread as it's basically got nothing left to offer but bickering.

I look forward to seeing you all on other threads.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18098

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


27085 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Cagliostro wrote:
I don't know Hashi much at all, but I got the feeling he didn't want this thread to exist because he knew it would turn into this: a wound that keeps being picked at. I suggested in the mod forum that we create this thread so that it wasn't just a "it's done, and we're not talking about it" feeling. I felt this needed to be hashed out, but maybe I was wrong.


Initially, I did object because I knew it would be a wild free-for-all of baseless accusations and I even once voiced my opinion of closing the thread, forbidding discussion of the topic until someone threw my own ideals/principles back in my face. At that point, my dedication to "free speech" was more important and either I had to be true to myself or turn into a despot. I opted to remain true to myself--I may not like the thread but at least my decisions don't tug any guilty strings attached to my conscience.


I honestly don't like this thread. It feels "icky" to me. I just poked my head in here to point out (after SB pointed it out to me in our own private political dojo) that after three months of no Cail, the people who claimed that he kept them out of the Tank still weren't here. I think Jay said something about newcomers seeing the Tank's large post count would come here and see the derogatory tone and promptly quit the site. But I think the past 3 months have put those notions to rest. Those justifications--which I think played into the perma-ban solution--were bullshit. In reality, nothing drives people away faster than inactivity and uninspired discussion. I mean, we're competing with porn here, folks. Laughing
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
High Lord Tolkien
Excommunicated Member of THOOLAH

Male
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 6898

Thanks: 14
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: Cape Cod, Mass
2267 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 Lord Mhoram's Victory


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
I mean, we're competing with porn here, folks. Laughing


Combine them both with Fantasy Bedtime Hour! Very Happy
_________________
http://thoolah.blogspot.com/



[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18098

Thanks: 42
Thanked 186 Times in 178 Posts


27085 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FindailsCrispyPancakes wrote:

REPETITION #2 OF MY LAST COMMUNICATION WITH YOU, IN CASE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT NOT BOTHERING WITH YOU ANY MORE MEANS

I understand that you want to shut me up, I just disagree that you have the right or power to do it. And I question your motives in wanting to do so.

No one is stopping you from ignoring me. You've made several posts that quote mine (this one included) since announcing that you're done with me, some that go into quite a lot of detail (I haven't had time to get to those yet), but I'm forbidden to respond? No.

If you don't want to get into pissing contests, you shouldn't start pissing on people. If you don't want to have exchanges that focus on people rather than their arguments, you shouldn't have entered this discussion with, "You guys . . . " kind of judgement. "You guys" isn't a reference to an argument. It's an ad hominem attack, as you point out.

It's a lot easier to spot it when you're criticizing someone else, isn't it?
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next
Page 17 of 21

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch