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Cail is missed!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
I mean, we're competing with porn here, folks. Laughing


Combine them both with Fantasy Bedtime Hour! Very Happy


Did you need a link or do you already have one? Laughing
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We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youre a good human Hashi .. I 100 percent respect you standing by and owning your words.

SB, LF, Z you give me far too much credit .. and if it helps you sleep at night .. Ill be your scapegoat and please continue to dump your shit on me. Fortunately for me I can absolutely take it. I could take it from Cail and you are no Cails.

I agree things could have been handled better .. the circus you speak of was disappointing and cringeworthy ... we could have well done without it.

Say and think what you will ... the time is long past for any hope of change on that score ... but I genuinely believed.. ignorantly that the entire issue, was Cail and I ... and we were working through that. But in reality the issue much greater than that.

And the literal scope of "my influence" begins and ends with having Watch friends to dump MY shit on.

And as pissed as I very often was with Cail throughout the past two years ... I did not believe he would be pulled up let alone banned which was the only reason I agreed to pm him to start THAT ball rolling.

Say what you will ... there is a hell of a lot of bullying behaviour that has found its foothold firmly in the Tank. Maybe you dont recognise it as its become SOP there. I think we can do so much better.

There are some in this world that believe it is their inalienable right to be dicks. Such a right does not exist. Those that are habitual dicks ... and deep down they know who they are 😉 would do well to realise this. Only those who ARE dicks need get offended at that 😉 right? And I fully acknowledge that I can be a dick. I too can do better.

We have a new Watcher who is clearly intelligent, capable of looking out for him or herself .. and how is he or she greeted in the forums here? .. with ire, disdain and criticism. Kudos Z for welcoming him or her ♥️ That was genuinely a nice value-add. But its hard to appreciate that welcome in the face of all that other shit you spewed out at him. Of course the dude doesnt know any of us .. he gave HIS or HER honest impression of encountering this thread as a newbie, and it was lightheartedly offered.

We have become confrontational from the outset with him. And truly not EVERYTHING has to be adversarial. He or she may have more knowledge and experience in the sciences or the arts than you .. so what?? We learn so much from each other. Thats a good thing imv.

Z, I like many others here .. used to think you were one of the most intelligent, reasoned and savvy humans at the Watch. Then you kick off the starting block on the offensive. You dont need to ... you already had well established street cred here.

The same is true of you TF. I had immense respect for you ... you seemed to be able to cut through BS and add real value to discussions.

Wayfriend is yet another awesome intelligence here, V, Soulbiter, RR, Nano .. when hes being serious 😉, SD, Pete Cord, Deer, Sorus, Cags, Chevy, Sammy etc. We have a incredible community. We have Watchers from all walks of life here ... and each has much to offer.

I think I can do better and I think the Watch as a whole can do better. We are very fortunate to have Av in the drivers seat ... he sets a pretty good example to follow. Much like Jay when he was a daily feature here.

I dont mean to be hurtful or disingenuous either. We dont know each other all that well. But Id far rather build you up than pull you down. Id far rather give humans a chance at "redemption" than deprive them of the opportunity to turn things around. And yes that would by necessity include Cail.

However I understand that Cail had well over a decade of opportunity to turn things around.
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SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Youre a good human Hashi .. I 100 percent respect you standing by and owning your words.

SB, LF, Z you give me far too much credit .. and if it helps you sleep at night .. Ill be your scapegoat and please continue to dump your shit on me. Fortunately for me I can absolutely take it. I could take it from Cail and you are no Cails.

I agree things could have been handled better .. the circus you speak of was disappointing and cringeworthy ... we could have well done without it.

Say and think what you will ... the time is long past for any hope of change on that score ... but I genuinely believed.. perhaps stupidly that the entire issue, was Cail and I ... and we were working through that. But in reality the issue surpassed that.

And the literal scope of "my influence" begins and ends with having Watch friends to dump MY shit on.

And as pissed as I very often was with Cail throughout the past two years ... I did not believe he would be pulled up let alone banned which was the only reason I agreed to pm him to start THAT ball rolling.

Say what you will ... there is a hell of a lot of bullying behaviour that has found its foothold firmly in the Tank. Maybe you dont recognise it as its become SOP there. I think we can do so much better.

There are some in this world that believe it is their inalienable right to be dicks. Such a right does not exist. Those that are habitual dicks ... and deep down they know who they are 😉 would do well to realise this. Only those who ARE dicks need get offended at that 😉 right? And I fully acknowledge that I can be a dick. I too can do better.

We have a new Watcher who is clearly intelligent, capable of looking out for him or herself .. and how is he or she greeted in the forums here? .. with ire, disdain and criticism. Kudos Z for welcoming him or her ♥️ That was genuinely a nice value-add. But its hard to appreciate that welcome in the face of all that other shit you spewed out at him. Of course the dude doesnt know any of us .. he gave HIS or HER honest impression of encountering this thread as a newbie, and it was lightheartedly offered.

We have become confrontational from the outset with him. And truly not EVERYTHING has to be adversarial. He or she may have more knowledge and experience in the sciences or the arts than you .. so what?? We learn so much from each other. Thats a good thing imv.

Z, I like many others here .. used to think you were one of the most intelligent, reasoned and savvy humans at the Watch. Then you kick off the starting block on the offensive. You dont need to ... you already had well established street cred here.

The same is true of you TF. I had immense respect for you ... you seemed to be able to cut through BS and add real value to discussions.

Wayfriend is yet another awesome intelligence here, V, Soulbiter, RR, Nano .. when hes being serious 😉, SD, Pete Cord, Deer, Sorus, Cags, Chevy, Sammy etc. We have a incredible community. We have Watchers from all walks of life here ... and each has much to offer.

I think I can do better and I think the Watch as a whole can do better. We are very fortunate to have Av in the drivers seat ... he sets a pretty good example to follow. Much like Jay when he was a daily feature here.

I dont mean to be hurtful or disingenuous either. We dont know each other all that well. But Id far rather build you up than pull you down. Id far rather give humans a chance at "redemption" than deprive them of the opportunity to turn things around. And yes that would includes Cail.

However I understand that with Cail had well over a decade of opportunity to turn things around.


Sky... all so close. You were 98% there. And truly that is all I have been looking for. A recognition of what went wrong and the parts that were played in it, and a willingness to learn from it. Is it so hard to just admit mistakes were made and then stop right there? Whether intentional or not you put jabs all over in there. In some areas you used Past tenses to refer to your respect for others. Maybe some Freudian slips?
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We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:

We have a new Watcher who is clearly intelligent, capable of looking out for him or herself .. and how is he or she greeted in the forums here? .. with ire, disdain and criticism. Kudos Z for welcoming him or her ♥️ That was genuinely a nice value-add. But its hard to appreciate that welcome in the face of all that other shit you spewed out at him. Of course the dude doesnt know any of us .. he gave HIS or HER honest impression of encountering this thread as a newbie, and it was lightheartedly offered.

We have become confrontational from the outset with him. And truly not EVERYTHING has to be adversarial. He or she may have more knowledge and experience in the sciences or the arts than you .. so what?? We learn so much from each other. Thats a good thing imv.
Literally the first post I read from Findail was him criticizing us for "bickering." I ignored it the first time, but then he doubled down on it. You really think that's "lighthearted?" Then why didn't he say so? Why does he need you as his spokeswoman to clarify his intentions?

After reading this criticism of people he doesn't know, I checked in on two of my own threads, where he's calling people ignorant while bashing the premise of the threads.

I did not start the adversarial tone. I responded to it. And then he got pissy. That's all that happened.

It's curious that you turn the instigator into the victim. Being new isn't a virtue.
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop right there? 😉

Its hard to get what we want when we place limits on what we are prepared to hear.

Would you have preferred that I ignore how Findail has been received? Perhaps cut out the dick thing? Perhaps not offer my perspective on anything at all?

I know what you want and I hear what youre saying. Im sorry that even though 98 percent there was acceptable to you .. it nevertheless failed because of the 2 percent in which I went beyond what you wanted.

What can I say?

1. Hard wiring? 2. You wouldnt be the first to wish Id stop right there 3. Yeah hard wiring.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Youre a good human Hashi


Not really, but I pretend to be one when I am here.

Skyweir wrote:
I 100 percent respect you standing by and owning your words.


Mutual respect despite disagreements--nice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z
.. just give him the benefit of the doubt. And no, I didnt take his observations as a personal affront at all.

Seems like a pretty reasonable approach to take.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sky, maybe if you started threads where you argued for a dozen or so pages about something you found fascinating, and then Findail came in and trashed your ideas without even reading them, you'd feel differently. But all you seem to do here is praise other people for their posts, rather than adding anything substantial yourself. So I can understand how you don't get it. You are a cheerleader, not a player. Don't lecture me.
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Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoulBiter wrote:
High Lord Tolkien wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
I mean, we're competing with porn here, folks. Laughing


Combine them both with Fantasy Bedtime Hour! Very Happy


Did you need a link or do you already have one? Laughing


You will have to PM that link to me. Mr. Green
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What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow nice 👍

Cheers
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:

Wayfriend is yet another awesome intelligence here, V, Soulbiter, RR, Nano .. when hes being serious 😉, SD, Pete Cord, Deer, Sorus, Cags, Chevy, Sammy etc. .




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Cail is missed!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
SoulBiter wrote:
High Lord Tolkien wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
I mean, we're competing with porn here, folks. Laughing


Combine them both with Fantasy Bedtime Hour! Very Happy


Did you need a link or do you already have one? Laughing


You will have to PM that link to me. Mr. Green


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed and HLT 😉😛

We are spoiled with awesomeness in these parts 😉😎♥️
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Cail is missed!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Skyweir wrote:

We have a new Watcher who is clearly intelligent, capable of looking out for him or herself .. and how is he or she greeted in the forums here? .. with ire, disdain and criticism. Kudos Z for welcoming him or her ♥️ That was genuinely a nice value-add. But its hard to appreciate that welcome in the face of all that other shit you spewed out at him. Of course the dude doesnt know any of us .. he gave HIS or HER honest impression of encountering this thread as a newbie, and it was lightheartedly offered.

We have become confrontational from the outset with him. And truly not EVERYTHING has to be adversarial. He or she may have more knowledge and experience in the sciences or the arts than you .. so what?? We learn so much from each other. Thats a good thing imv.
Literally the first post I read from Findail was him criticizing us for "bickering." I ignored it the first time, but then he doubled down on it. You really think that's "lighthearted?" Then why didn't he say so? Why does he need you as his spokeswoman to clarify his intentions?

After reading this criticism of people he doesn't know, I checked in on two of my own threads, where he's calling people ignorant while bashing the premise of the threads.

I did not start the adversarial tone. I responded to it. And then he got pissy. That's all that happened.

It's curious that you turn the instigator into the victim. Being new isn't a virtue.


MY take is that there is some give and take on both sides. But I do agree with Z in many ways. I had to do a lot of searching to find this but I remember it like yesterday. Some of my first posts in the Tank and I told Lord Mhoram and a few others that the content of their post was Garbage and frankly a load of horse shit. Now keep in mind that I was fairly new and this was a very busy Tank in those days....

LM sent me this in a PM... there was more but this is the part that stuck with me
Quote:
"And by the way, I'd appreciate it if you didn't call my or anyone else's position "garbage" until you have a few more posts under your belt and some factual evidence to back that up."


So I went back to my original post and apologized for my behavior and said
Quote:
So let me rephrase.. I understand your position.. I just vehemently disagree with it.


All that being said.... this was a horrible thread to come in, where tempers are already on edge, and to try to be "funny", flippant or more likely "sarcastic". Especially to someone that does have alot of "street cred" here.Possibly I could be totally wrong but frankly my initial perception of that entire event was that Findail when pushed immediately went nuclear to show everyone how big his/her balls were. Laughing
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We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some very fair points SB.

Awww 🥰 I miss Mhoram.

Yeah all good.

FCPs is clearly intelligent, a Brit 😉 and indubitably capable of taking care of himself. I did not detect any malicious intent in stating that we ... sure do bicker a lot. But then Im a Brit too, so I took his comment a tad less seriously.

Ive noticed though that Aussies and Brits share a similar language 😉 and I dont mean English 😉

Also it seems to me that there are subtle differences between us all, whether it be cultural or social or something else entirely? 🤷‍♀️ Totally navigable though 😉
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Joy is in the ears that hear Z - that was another one of Donaldson's sayings if you recall. Thing about respect is that sure , you can't demand it of other people, but you can give it irrespective of whether the one it is gifted to wants it or chooses to accept it or not. That is simply outside the recipients gift. What you are getting in the Tank is a slice of a person - and a small one at that. There is a whole life of experiences and influences that lie behind every post people make here - stuff that you or I or nobody can know shit about; stuff that makes one person's bullshit another person's bread and butter. For this reason if no other it has to be the case that posts are at least accorded the grace of being read in the spirit of "can I learn something from this". If not, then fair play, call it out - but disagree without being disagreeable. It's not impossible. There doesn't have to be blood.

(For the record, I was too far up my own arse with the Brexit thing to even be aware of the Cail situation, but if I'd been asked to vote on it I'd have voted him in - with the caveat that I don't actually know what his final offence that resulted in the ban was. He could be abrasive to the point of being objectionable, and often was. But he was also fair and evenhanded - sometimes when you least expected it.)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Beef'n'Onion
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like cookies...

and pudding

and ice cream

and chocolate.

except chocolate covered ants.. I can do without..
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete, since you mentioned it, Cail's final offense was calling Sky a tosser. And then he apologized about 5 times. And then got banned.

I'm sure others will chime in and talk about a 'long history of abuse,' but Hashi maintains that no here complained about this abuse to him via PM, so there's not really a record of it that any one has produced. Sure, he was acerbic and sarcastic, but according to the rules here, that was allowed.

As for Findail, I'm not the one telling him to shut up. So maybe you guys should direct your advice to him. He can say whatever he wants, as far as I'm concerned, as long as he knows that judgmentalism, sarcasm, condescension, belittlement will be called out. My first response to his "you guys sure bicker a lot" was to ignore him. He didn't seem to like that, so he quoted himself to repeat it. At that point my response was an innocuous, "not really," which garnered a much more hostile response than was warranted. Go back and look for yourself. [Edit: ok, maybe I said a bit more. Laughing ]
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra, no one complained to Hashi because it was POINTLESS to do so. Not only did he make it clear he would do nothing, he was OBVIOUSLY on Cail's side in ALL THNGS. He is Cail's crony. You KNOWINGLY TWIST the truth beyond redemption here if you use that as proof of Cail's harmlessness.

The ONLY people Hashi ever took action against as moderator were politically left. The VERY THING you claim to be offensive. But which you NEVER spoke up about. Which proves your reasons are EXCUSES of the moment.

You have no principals on display here. But everyone can see your giant troll ass in it's full glory.
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* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda for which this forum has become a platform.
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