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The Recent Ban of a Member
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone has stopped giving a damn and is now shitposting at this point...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh 😉 ... ya think? 🤔
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You okay, Sky? You having some sort of episode or something?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, 😉 peachy 😘 .. you?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
I can't believe you guys are still talking about this!


Neither can I. *sigh*

Zarathustra wrote:
Sky, it is a fair question. Is it okay to call people here names or not? Because I could have swore that was a banable offense. I'm not even arguing whether or not Cail should have been banned. I am talking about current behavior. I just want to know the rules here.

Hashi, care to weigh in?


Are you certain you really want that? Okay.

I don't have a problem with person A calling person B a name, even a nasty name, so long as the name stays off the relatively short list of truly offensive racial/ethnic slurs (I need not ennumerate the words on that list for anyone, I trust). The "such-and-such said something once upon a time and that hurt my feelings" posts should probably stop, though--what happened in the past happened in the past so it is time to let go of that. You don't see me dwelling on things which have been said about me, do you? Of course not.


sgt.null wrote:
This does deserve a thread split


*yeesh* What a headache. I am tempted to lock it and start a new "abortion" thread, once which will, ideally, stay mostly on topic.

ur-Nanothnir wrote:
I think everyone has stopped giving a damn and is now shitposting at this point...


This. Quoting Cail from Facebook is unique though--I haven't seen that before. Necromancy *is* real! Who knew?

aliantha wrote:
Oh, for godsake. Rolling Eyes

Why don't one of you guys make a separate thread where you can all go and complain amongst yourselves about Cail's banning and how nice it was when you had the place all to yourselves? Maybe Hashi would even pin it for you.


That is a tempting thought. In fact, I think I will do that--anyone who wants to discuss anything Cail-related can do so in the Cail thread...just don't expect *me* to join in the conversation for anythign other than something mod-related because, truthfully, I don't care about him or the consequences of his choices at all.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:05 am    Post subject: The Recent Ban of a Member Reply with quote

Done.

Now, those of you who wish to do so may freely discuss Cail, the events/reasons leading up to his ban, the ban itself, and the fallout of that decision, or anything relating to that topic just as long as you don't clutter up any other threads with Cail-related posts.

Don't expect me to join in, though--that is in the past for me and didn't really effect me in any significant way. In my opinion, posting here serves only as an indicator that you are having difficulty getting past the event and so you might want to take some time to reflect upon why it bothers you so much. Or not--the decision is yours.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi - the Cail thread is a great idea.
It can be a circle jerk for the Cail cult.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ironic that Cail had me temporarily
Banned for calling him a racist.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
Hashi - the Cail thread is a great idea.
It can be a circle jerk for the Cail cult.


I do not recall exactly at this moment but, yes, I do seem to recall that you mentioned it first. My first reaction was "what a pain" but after only a few minutes I realized the wisdom in your suggestion.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Hashi.

Pretty much agree with most of what you said up there. The thread is here for anybody who wants to discuss it civilly, and hopefully we have all gotten the cheap shots out of our systems now and can go back to discussing things like the rational human beings we usually pretend to be.

--A
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
Ironic that Cail had me temporarily
Banned for calling him a racist.


Shocked

Wow 😮 ... ok gee willeckers .. not quite sure how thats spelled .. not a common expression of mine 😉 but I said Id put my best foot forward and try like a dickens to Marshall in my cussing 😘
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: The Recent Ban of a Member Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
I don't have a problem with person A calling person B a name, even a nasty name, so long as the name stays off the relatively short list of truly offensive racial/ethnic slurs (I need not ennumerate the words on that list for anyone, I trust).

The "such-and-such said something once upon a time and that hurt my feelings" posts should probably stop, though--what happened in the past happened in the past so it is time to let go of that. You don't see me dwelling on things which have been said about me, do you? Of course not.


Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Now, those of you who wish to do so may freely discuss Cail, the events/reasons leading up to his ban, the ban itself, and the fallout of that decision, or anything relating to that topic just as long as you don't clutter up any other threads with Cail-related posts.

Don't expect me to join in, though--that is in the past for me and didn't really effect me in any significant way. In my opinion, posting here serves only as an indicator that you are having difficulty getting past the event and so you might want to take some time to reflect upon why it bothers you so much. Or not--the decision is yours.
With respect, Obersturmbandfuhrer, although all the above has been expressed no doubt sincerely, this is unintentionally entirely disingenuous.

Because your position as Tank mod - which I absolutely and entirely happen to agree with - completely clashes with the stated reasons for the recently imposed ban.

If there is in fact no "problem with person A calling person B a name, even a nasty name, so long as the name stays off the relatively short list of truly offensive racial/ethnic slurs" - and I fully agree - why was the ban enacted?

If "such-and-such said something once upon a time and that hurt my feelings" should be an irrelevance - and I fully agree - why was the ban enacted?

If "what happened in the past happened in the past so it is time to let go of that" is an accepted truth - and I fully agree - why was the ban enacted, given that it was based allegedly on a long historical track record?

History shouldn't matter, apparently? The past is after all the past...

(...and yes I am aware of the equal irony in my posting on an event that has already happened, but still...)

sgt. null wrote:
Hashi - the Cail thread is a great idea. It can be a circle jerk for the Cail cult...

Ironic that Cail had me temporarily banned for calling him a racist.
Three things.

1. What leads you to think that this issue is primarily about Cail?

2. I doubt that it's either helpful or adult to tritely mock the choice of issues that others may find discussion-worthy...

3. ..although the following line of your quote seems to clearly show that long-harboured grudges have a notable bearing on your expressed attitude. TBF, not something you're alone in, but still, how depressingly unsurprising.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So "tosser" is on that relatively short list?

Sorry Hashi, but both Ali and Luci have made it clear that they targeted Cail, which is a violation of the forum rules. Pretending this wasn't about his content is transparently false. TF's correct in that this isn't about Cail. He just happened to be in the crosshairs of someone who demands ideological purity and who can't stand to be challenged.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Sarge noting the irony of Cails action against him when HE was a mod .. is I would have thought completely en pointe.

Now fair call that Cail is not here to answer that challenge .. to enable its discussion perhaps if theres anyone else that was here during that time, that can weigh in. Might be enlightening.

But I am aware, only from hearing about it .. so heresay .. that Esmer was banned over something that wasnt a long established pattern of behaviour like Cails banning was explained to be.

So if anyone can further enlighten us re that .. and what mod was the instigator behind that banning .. we might be able to formulate a better more wholistic picture.

And Lord Foul and I dont know who else.

But definitely on topic imv.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fallen- I guess at some point Cail
Will heal the sick and walk on water?

1] cail got banned. So what else would
It be about? No matter what the cult wishes.

2] odd that that you would find feelings
About my mocking when the subject in
Question is well known for the same tactics.

3] so Cail used his power wrongly then, so
I should disregard that as a pattern. What
A remarkable cop out. Using the logic that
Anyone attacked by cail in the past needs
To recuse themselves from opinions now.

Sky - Lord Foul well deserved his lifetime ban.
I would consider Cail getting reinstated well
Before Foul ever coming back. Fair to say that
If Foul were allowed back, I would simply quit.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I am unable to comment as I wasnt here for yours or LFs banning. I do kinda remember LF but not that well.

But it would seem that Cail was ok with banning people for not all that much, it sounds like. Was it Cail that instigated LFs banning?

Regardless, it would indeed seem double standards are indeed rife 😉

And I guess I come back to pot calling kettle black If you dish it out .. you cant truly cry foul 😉 when you receive it. 🤷‍♀️

Fairs fair .. no?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
The fallen- I guess at some point Cail
Will heal the sick and walk on water?
Vanishingly unlikely in your and my reality, but in a quantum multiverse, yes undoubtedly somewhere.

sgt.null wrote:
1] cail got banned. So what else would
It be about? No matter what the cult wishes.
See Ex's post above - I am not alone in treating this as a general issue. There's no cult - and again if you're looking to pour oil on troubled waters, perhaps a less studiedly needling approach might be more apposite?

sgt.null wrote:
2] odd that that you would find feelings
About my mocking when the subject in
Question is well known for the same tactics.
See answer to 1 above. The person you incorrectly refer to as the "subject in question" is gone. He's not here for you to "tit for tat" mock. The actual issue in question is not about that subject anyway. Why would you mock general issues that others wish to discuss - and indeed others themselves - on that basis? Are you in fact now supporting, nay adopting the alleged mocking tactics of the recently banned? Now that truly WOULD be ironic...

sgt.null wrote:
3] so Cail used his power wrongly then, so
I should disregard that as a pattern. What
A remarkable cop out. Using the logic that
Anyone attacked by cail in the past needs
To recuse themselves from opinions now.
I wasn't around then, but presumably from what I can gather, Cail was a mod at some point? If he "abused mod power", then he should have no longer been a mod. Since I've been around, Cail has not been a mod. Job done, I'd have said? I also have to note that any ban imposed upon your good self in the dim and distant past - whether justified or utterly unfair - demonstrably wasn't permanent. Plus it was the existing Tank mod who said - and I heartily agree - that people get too hung up on history and alleged offences of the past.

sgt.null wrote:
Sky - Lord Foul well deserved his lifetime ban.
I would consider Cail getting reinstated well
Before Foul ever coming back. Fair to say that
If Foul were allowed back, I would simply quit.
Blimey! This makes me feel like I've come in 2/3rds of the way through a long-running soap opera. Christ knows - well, Christ and all you long-termers - what must have gone on. Is there a recapping set of study notes available?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
I do wish people didn't cuss here.


I agree goddammit...

(Sorry null.... hope you see the humor.. Please don't come and get me and take me to your work... I'm to old to be in-carton-a-rated.) Very Happy

My Daddy.. (oh.. George Carlin has an entire skit on the "My Daddy")
said in a conversation that people who used curse words were of low
intelligence. They could not find or remember a proper way of making
an express of disgust or frustration on an object or situation. I heard him
say this while in the car with a friend. I took it to heart and tried to increase my vocal skills.
Next week comes along and he's talking to the same friend just blasting
out the four letter words like a broken dam.
I'm sitting in the back, aghasted and thinking to myself.
"Dad.. did the smart pills wear off.. maybe you need more."
Of course I would have never dared to say that in his presents..
A lot of mixed signals but sometimes he was right on a few things.

But I still agree with you on the colorful metaphors.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
So "tosser" is on that relatively short list?
No. Cail did not get banned for using that word, or any other specific word or words. Using the specific words on that list is not the only way someone can get banned. He got banned for his refusal to treat all with minimal civility and courtesy. And not just a little bit, but to a very high degree. And not just once, but dozens of times. We're not talking about a "heat of the moment" kind of thing, or someone posting drunk one day. We're talking about a very longstanding issue; an established pattern of behavior. And it's a pattern he flat-out admits he is not going to change. He says it in those very words: "My style is my style, and it's not going to change." He was spoken to at various times over the years, then warned unambiguously. "Tosser" is not a particularly egregious offense. But he was making it clear that he was not going to treat all with minimal civility and courtesy, despite knowing the consequences. A small straw, but it was the last one.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote






It difficult for me to describe how much I love this thread not because of it's content but because how god-damn civil it is compared to the rest of the internet.

Like I've always said, Kevin's Watch is an oasis of goodness (except for Mallory's) in an absolute cesspool of internet filth.
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