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SPOILERS: An idea, not a theory, about Book 3

 
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Hunchback Jack
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: SPOILERS: An idea, not a theory, about Book 3 Reply with quote

Okay, I may be jumping the gun on this discussion, given that Book 2 only just came out, but I have an idea about book 3 that I wanted to share. I don't think this will happen ... but it's a possibility.

SPOILERS AHEAD.










The Magisters of the Last Repository are the bad guys. They hold all the knowledge of the world, true, but they hoard it for themselves, rather than actively using it to enrich people's lives. Not only that, they expect nations to perish in order to maintain their sole possession of knowledge, rather than working with those nations to create more Repositories.

The Enemy is a more technically advanced nation who are coming to destroy the library only so that its knowledge can be used to benefit nations like Bellinger and Amika.

What got me thinking about this is that by the end of Book 2, we haven't really seen much of the Enemy, and the Enemy hasn't acted overtly aggressive. Normally, by this time, I would have expected Donaldson to have made the threat very clear, and elicited a strong response from us against the villain. But not so in this series.

Donaldson also hasn't written a twist like that in his novels before, and it would be interesting to speculate whether that idea was what sparked the need for two more books to the series.

I'd be interested to hear others ideas of what might be coming next.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But surely the enemy has made his presence known. The raiders are abroad and the monks of the great God are in the capital. I'm assuming they are both harbingers of the invaders and as such the enemy are followers of some mad religion that would want the repository destroyed because it doesn't fit in with their plans for world domination.

However this is SRD so anything could happen from here.

Plus it's just occurred to me that if your theory turns out to be correct it would also make Bifalt right as well.....
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should this turn out to be correct, it casts the events at the end of TWW in a very different light.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

renny wrote:
But surely the enemy has made his presence known. The raiders are abroad and the monks of the great God are in the capital.


Ah, that is true. I had forgotten about the attacks on the Southern ranches. It's a good point, and it would be hard to justify a "liberator of knowledge" nation treating people that way.

With respect to the church, though, we don't yet know their ultimate purpose. Yes, they seem to be trying to undermine the alliance between Bellinger and Amika, but that could be the work of either an evil or a good agency.

And we don't really know the nature or intent of the ships trying to land at the bay of reefs (can't recall the name offhand).

Quote:

I'm assuming they are both harbingers of the invaders and as such the enemy are followers of some mad religion that would want the repository destroyed because it doesn't fit in with their plans for world domination.


Well, yes, that's certainly what the Bellengians think Smile.

Your point is well made though. I may be overthinking Donaldson's intentions.

Savor Dam wrote:
Should this turn out to be correct, it casts the events at the end of TWW in a very different light.


It does indeed.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the wonderful thing about SRDs writing. We're at the midway point and all we know for sure is that there is a bad guy. There are quite a few levels of story going on here. I suspect a reread is in order.

Anyway here's a more general question about the next book. Will there be a significant time elapse before we rejoin the characters?
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

renny wrote:
This is the wonderful thing about SRDs writing. We're at the midway point and all we know for sure is that there is a bad guy. There are quite a few levels of story going on here. I suspect a reread is in order.

Anyway here's a more general question about the next book. Will there be a significant time elapse before we rejoin the characters?


I agree, these two books are great. I haven't read SRD in a while, but the old man delivers. There are a lot of contemporary authors who could learn from his writing technique. It is so clear that he knows exactly where this tale is leading. He didn't just throw out a tangled web of side-plots that he has no way to resolve other than hiring HBO to finish the story for him. Love the guy, he is an absolute master of his craft. And I loved it when he said the line "Winter is coming" in this book, lol.

That said, I tend to agree that the Library isn't the bad guys and the enemy aren't the saviors. There are too many sides at this point to really figure out what all of their motivations and allegiances are. We've got the Library, the Enemy, the Nuuri, the Raiders (are they the same as the guys on the boat in the Bay of Lights?), the Church of Rile, the Wagon-Train, and Estie's dead Dad (can't remember his name). There's also the Spirit and Love sisters (can't remember their name, either). And the Monks of Plenty. That's all I can think of now, but there may be more.

I suspect Bifalt's instincts are mostly correct, and the Library are pulling strings for their own benefit and not necessarily Belleger's. Their entire game to this point may just be to get Estie to the library to unlock her potential, whatever that is. I cannot wait for the next book, SRD ended this on a great cliff-hanger (literally, lol).[/b]
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estie's dead Dad is King Smegin.

What we learn of him in TWW tends to make it unlikely that the offstage enemy is the good guys and the Magisters of the Library are the principal villains.
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another question. Do people think that Estie and Bifalt will fulfil one another? That's the politest way I could think of phrasing that question! FWIW I think yes they will.
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, absolutely rooting for that to happen; how can one not?

SRD foreshadows this in a few places in TWW, but most clearly in Telling Each Other the Truth. His protagonists are always masters of getting in their own way and misunderstanding how they are seen by their fated companion.

Their "fulfillment" will happen, as will other events that we've been led to expect. He only invents what he needs.

To address your earlier question, I don't expect the passage of time will be significant, certainly not like the two decades between the first two books. Events are quickening. Stuff is happening.
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Yes, I think all will be resolved. At least, I hope so. If not, I suspect the resolution will be quite the opposite; I doubt there will be any middle ground.

I don't think there will be much passage of time between Books 2 and 3 at all. I suspect 2 & 3 will feel more like a single story, while book 1 will become more of a prologue.

Just talking about book 3 makes me want to read it. I hope it's not a long wait.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that Estie fits the same mold as Terisa and Geraden. I expect that she will have some new form of sorcery which saves both kingdoms. One that will out-do the new forms brought into play by the Church and the Invaders. Something even more Meta than the Seventh Decimate.

I don't think we need to expect any role-reversals. The bad guys are bad. The library never claimed to be pure and just. They didn't choose that Beleger and Amika would be in the way.

If you subvert expectations too much, there's no story.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something possibly spoilerish about what is Not There..
There are obvious references to religion in the tale. Eastern and western religion are alluded to in metaphor and even straight linear example. But one of the Biggest ,,most changing and potentially effective religious "evolution" in humanity..is not here in the tale..It is denied. It is put off to " later"...
That "later" hints to be in parallel with Estie's slumbering "gift"..
A wiseman of 2000 years ago brought the concept of "Love" from the Greek idea of lustful desire to a mystical God level sacrificing His Son to demonstrate the infinite of "Love" ..turn the other cheek...
The knowledge of that infinity..or at least the pursuit of that knowledge..might be what awaits to be woke in Estie...What kind of miracles will she bestow ?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey. That sounds like lurch ... it IS lurch. Wave
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurch2 wrote:
Something possibly spoilerish about what is Not There..
There are obvious references to religion in the tale. Eastern and western religion are alluded to in metaphor and even straight linear example. But one of the Biggest ,,most changing and potentially effective religious "evolution" in humanity..is not here in the tale..It is denied. It is put off to " later"...
That "later" hints to be in parallel with Estie's slumbering "gift"..
A wiseman of 2000 years ago brought the concept of "Love" from the Greek idea of lustful desire to a mystical God level sacrificing His Son to demonstrate the infinite of "Love" ..turn the other cheek...
The knowledge of that infinity..or at least the pursuit of that knowledge..might be what awaits to be woke in Estie...What kind of miracles will she bestow ?


so ... you're saying she's a witch, right? Very Happy

it is interesting that both the Cult of Many and the devotees of Flesh and Spirit are largely presented as benign forces, whereas the Church of the Great God Rile is presented as something far more sinister.

as to Estie's potentially Christ-like transformation, could not Bifalt's martyrdom serve a similar function 'later'?

Get writing SRD!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Way! Yep its me..still kickin..Good to see you still at it! Changed computers, email address all that so had to come into here anew.
This Great Gods War is making me once again glad to be a Donaldson fan.
There is a reoccurring motif here that makes me think Estie and Bifalt will or need to break and go beyond.This arrogance thing..the Magisters were blamed of it, yet Elgart is guilty of it too. Even Bifalt has his own form of arrogance going for him in his stubborn Honor and self defeating celibacy . King Smedgin is an other example.
The female characters seem less possessed by arrogance but accordingly Estie could well fall victim to it.
So there is a major conflict to be resolved; overcoming ones arrogance..ones belief that you already know it all..It blinds you to further knowledge.(Magister Lamberts cries of I can't see! I can't See! in the epilogue seemed a good analogy)..btw thats the major reasoning that pushed philosophers from the "Enlightement" into the Romantic Era's open ended there is no such thing as Perfection there is only an endless cycle of questioning and discovery..which requires a expanded idea of Love ..pushing further along the Infinite road.

So, a witch,? its possible, There probably would be accusations of such but the " miracles" would determine the kind of labeling applied to the not understood. Jesus walked on water yet not called a warlock or magician.?Maybe he just knew where the rocks were.
Howabout this..Estie has the gift of Infinity..to put anybody into a infinite loop..never reaching an end ,a destination, just a infinite continuation greyhound bus ride..GAAAAA...Quite deserving for those who demean knowledge imho.
Anyway, I agree, hopefully by now hes well into wrapping up the Tale.

If he still got it going after this tale..I'd like to see him do another couple of easy The Man Who .


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurch2 wrote:
Hey Way! Yep its me..still kickin..Good to see you still at it! Changed computers, email address all that so had to come into here anew.


Welcome back man. Pop into Gen Disc and say hi.

If you want your old account PW and email re-set, drop me a PM. Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original working title for book 3 was "The Gift of the Ungifted".

... which may be referring to Estie. Or it may not be. Or, knowing Donaldson, it is referring to several people, Estie included.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let Bifalt also have a gift...and deal with resolving that with his legacy attitudes on the subject.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savor Dam wrote:
Let Bifalt also have a gift...and deal with resolving that with his legacy attitudes on the subject.


Bifalt's got a gift; he says so himself! Very Happy

I'm wondering if Estie's gift is similar to Facile's, perhaps she is able to bestow sorcery upon the ungifted ..
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