Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Gene Editing and Ethics
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Loresraat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13702

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76988 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Gene Editing and Ethics Reply with quote

Story from Al Jazeera America.

Quote:
The White House said Tuesday that an experimental process that alters the DNA of human embryos and passes along those changes to successive generations poses ethical issues that requires further review and should not be pursued at this stage.

"The administration believes that altering the human germline for clinical purposes is a line that should not be crossed at this time," John Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, said in a statement on gene-editing.

It comes amid concern that the technology could be used to create so-called “designer babies,” offspring with characteristics deemed desirable by their parents.

Last week, The National Academy of Sciences said it would convene an international summit this fall to explore the ethical and policy issues associated with the research and appoint an international committee to recommend guidelines for the technology, which is called CRISPR-Cas9 and allows scientists to edit virtually any gene they target.

The technique allows researchers to artificially insert or remove parts of the DNA.

Nascent work in the field has already led to fierce patent battles between start-up companies and universities that say it could prove as profitable and revolutionary as recombinant DNA technology, which was developed in the 1970s and 1980s and launched the biotechnology industry.

But CRISPR has also brought ethical concerns. Use of the technology provoked strong criticism from some scientists last month, after it was employed in China to alter the DNA of human embryos.

Although the embryos were not viable and could not have developed into babies, the announcement led to warnings that such a step, which could alter human genomes for generations, was just a matter of time.

"Research along these lines raises serious and urgent questions about the potential implications for clinical applications that could lead to genetically altered humans," Holdren said in the statement on the White House website. “The full implications of such a step could not be known until a number of generations had inherited the genetic changes made — and choices made in one country could affect all of us."


Questions of safety and the possibility of making a mistake which would condemn an innocent to the possibility of some genetic disorder, why shouldn't parents be allowed to "custom design" their child? As long as they are going to nurture that child into being a well-rounded and fully-developed adult then who has the right to tell the parents that they cannot determine their child's skin color, eye color, hair color, or whatever other gene scientists think they can tweak however they want? Surely they don't think that mere outward appearance means anything, do they? No, no couple is going to willingly choose "albino" but would it hurt anyone if a Mexican and Korean couple decide they want a Caucasian child? Will it hurt anyone if a German couple decide that they want their child to have epicanthic folds? No, of course it won't hurt anyone, as long as the parental choices won't result in a detrimental condition for their child.

Of course, detractors are going to bring up eugenics. Which traits are actually desirable for human beings, though? Skin, hair, and eye color are irrelevant and meaningless, as is height to a degree. However, what if scientists could tweak the genes for muscle density, bone density, or intelligence? Who wouldn't want a child who is athletically and intellectually gifted even though those are more a factor of practice and diligence rather than "natural" ability?

In my opinion, the only truly desirable trait is intelligence. Everything else can be left up to chance but if the parents want an olive-toned, brown-eyed girl then why not let them have one?

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15472

Thanks: 7
Thanked 41 Times in 39 Posts

Location: North East, UK
24144 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just put the image into my head of people selling custom grown albino babies for use in African witchcraft. There's a story idea in that.

The mention of increased muscle density brought to mind something else entirely.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 19456

Thanks: 11
Thanked 228 Times in 210 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
45780 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Gene Editing and Ethics Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Questions of safety and the possibility of making a mistake which would condemn an innocent to the possibility of some genetic disorder, why shouldn't parents be allowed to "custom design" their child?

Because humanity by and large doesn't have a good track record with tolerating those differences among humans that have been acquired naturally.

By and large, if you look into it, the fear isn't so much about what happens to the modified children, but what happens to all the other ones.

In a world where no one will hire someone for a job unless they have been genetically optimized for that job -- and that's the inevitable future of this path -- then whoever controls access to gene modification controls who thrives and who is economic road kill. What are the odds that THAT will work out well for everyone? As a species, we can't even educate people without creating economic despotism.

I'm Murrin wrote:
You just put the image into my head of people selling custom grown albino babies for use in African witchcraft. There's a story idea in that.

There are actual stories of black couples seeking out doctors who promised to make their unborn child white. Which demonstrates the link (whether you think it's real or only believe it is perceived) between genetics and economics.
_________________
* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda for which this forum has become a platform.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13702

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76988 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the heck did you just subject me to? Anabolic steroids for cows? But.....but they don't work out with weights so how...? No, I probably don't want to know.

As far as the other imagery....well, that came from your imagination not mine so I claim no credit for the idea whatsoever.

The kernel of the story I had worked out but never wrote involved using a home-brewed mix of neurotransmitters and pharmaceuticals meant for treating attention-defecit disorders bathed in the emissions of rTMS to induce psionic abilities but this would be a great way to jump into "mutants": mutants aren't born, they are designed. A spin on the classic "super soldier" theme.

Still....even if scientists were able to design a child with a 200 IQ but no other obvious side-effects unanswered questions remain: how would the scientists relate to the child? how would the child relate to the scientists, much less the parents? It is bad enough being about 150 and far surpassing your parents, leading you to feel as if you don't belong in your own family--take my word for it, I have direct personal knowledge of this--so I couldn't imagine how someone with a significantly more advanced information processing system would cope. Actually, I can--they would just have to accept the fact that other people can't understand them and be comfortable with that.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15472

Thanks: 7
Thanked 41 Times in 39 Posts

Location: North East, UK
24144 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
What the heck did you just subject me to? Anabolic steroids for cows? But.....but they don't work out with weights so how...? No, I probably don't want to know.

The Belgian Blue was made by selective breeding - it has a genetic mutation that causes it to grow excessive amounts of muscle (I think it's something to do with converting fat to muscle). They know which gene causes it, and it's conceivable that they could recreate the trait in other cows. If you go about trying to increase muscle through changes to the human genome, you might risk getting it wrong in ways that produce something equally ridiculous.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Vraith
Obligate Metaphor


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10620

Thanks: 17
Thanked 99 Times in 96 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
31673 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except for the obvious, single-gene-caused illnesses/syndromes, we are not ready to do this.
I have a number of reasons...very good reasons...that I'll get to in another post, probably tomorrow, but I gotta go right now or my mom and my wife are gonna team up and hurt me.

_________________
Spoiler:
Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13702

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76988 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Gene Editing and Ethics Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Questions of safety and the possibility of making a mistake which would condemn an innocent to the possibility of some genetic disorder, why shouldn't parents be allowed to "custom design" their child?

Because humanity by and large doesn't have a good track record with tolerating those differences among humans that have been acquired naturally.

By and large, if you look into it, the fear isn't so much about what happens to the modified children, but what happens to all the other ones.

In a world where no one will hire someone for a job unless they have been genetically optimized for that job -- and that's the inevitable future of this path -- then whoever controls access to gene modification controls who thrives and who is economic road kill. What are the odds that THAT will work out well for everyone? As a species, we can't even educate people without creating economic despotism.


I missed this earlier? Really?

Anyway...excellent points. This is exactly the kind of "now just hold on a minute" thinking I was looking for--the danger of unforseen consequences. If we put 20 people in a room and asked them "name three things that would improve human beings" we would get 60 different answers because they would all name something the others didn't.

Still...we need to answer these questions soon because eventually someone is going to custom-build a person just to see if they can (whether for scientific curiosity or to prove national prominence or something equally inane). Truthfully, I am surprised we don't have a functional human clone by now--I could have sworn (20 years ago) that we would have had one by now but I guess I was wrong.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 19456

Thanks: 11
Thanked 228 Times in 210 Posts

Location: The world of the Bowling Green Massacre
45780 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Gene Editing and Ethics Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Still...we need to answer these questions soon because eventually someone is going to custom-build a person just to see if they can (whether for scientific curiosity or to prove national prominence or something equally inane).

Again, if we look at the track record for our species, we will NOT wait for those questions to be answered. We will be doing this just as soon as someone offers a sufficiently large amount of money for the service.

Not only is no one wise enough to foresee which traits are useful ones to cark into our DNA, there's also the whole matter of being ready for the unknown unknown. Species survive because they can adapt, and they can adapt because, in part, genetic lines deviate randomly - when something badass comes down the road, somewhere there is a branch of the species that can handle it. When you take control of your own speciation, you have the responsibility for ensuring your own adaptability.
_________________
* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda for which this forum has become a platform.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Thanked by: Fist and Faith
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18322

Thanks: 42
Thanked 188 Times in 180 Posts


28874 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Gene Editing and Ethics Reply with quote

No doubt it is a HUGE responsibility to contemplate taking control of our evolution. It should be carefully, rationally, thought out. However, in the end natural selection cannot be avoided. If we develop characteristics that don't increase our likelihood of survival and reproduction, nature will simply not select them for replication. So we don't really have to worry so much about making the human race weaker ... we already do that by preserving our 'misfits' with technology (e.g. people like me who need glasses).

But it's a curious concern to worry about making the human race stronger, hardier, smarter, etc. Who could possibly object to the virtually unimaginable benefit of transcending our own mortal limits? Well, turns out, the same types who worry about inequalities produced through disparate achievement in general. Unbelievably, there are people out there who would hold back the human race from its own genetic destiny [hey, we're the first ones able to do it, and we do it with intelligence given by our genes] in the name of keeping everyone "equal." We're going to leash human potential because of the lowest common denominators among us, those who would discriminate, etc.

If Bush were the one putting breaks on this kind of advancement, we'd be reminded how conservatives/Reps are anti-science. We'd be lectured about their religious taboos ('playing god') getting in the way of reason ... just like during the stem cell debate.

I think it's madness to throttle down development for social justice reasons. It boils down to jealousy, imo. People resent those who achieve more than they can achieve, even if it raises the bar on what Humans can achieve. I think this is sick.

So many reasons to fear progress ... the robots are going to take our jobs! The genetically superior are going to take our jobs! [But don't you dare worry about illegals taking our jobs ... that's racist! Only PC fears aimed a rich white people are allowed!]

This I can predict with 100% certainty: the genetically superior won't want your crappy job. Laughing No one is going to genetically modify their kids to be the best damn middle manager or IT support on the planet.They'll be doing something amazing with their lives, things the rest of us *can't* do.

There are technical reasons to carefully consider the issues with gene editing. But social justice reasons belong in the Tank, not in the Loresraat.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13702

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76988 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we want to transcend our limitations then wetware or, ideally, ghostcomp is the way to go, not genetics. (By "ghostcomp" I mean the ability to copy our consciousness--our set of neural patterns--into an AI.) Even if we are genetically enhanced we will still succumb to sickness, age, or injury, but if we convert ourselves into cyborgs or fully non-organic beings then injury means "crap--excuse me while I head to the shop to get a new arm" and there won't even be the possibility of disease or age, other than software/hardware upgrades as systems become obsolete.

That being said....if I were genetically enhanced for a particular career then that means I am specially designed for that career and thus my employer needs to pay me a hefty bonus for that.

Incidentally, Zarathustra, what is wrong with IT support? Are you saying that what I do is a crappy career path?

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18322

Thanks: 42
Thanked 188 Times in 180 Posts


28874 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Hashi, I was trying to be funny. We all think our job is crappy from time to time. I imagine that if someone is genetically superior, they're going to do something an average joe can't do. It would be like Einstein being a mechanic. Nothing wrong with fixing cars, but solving the nature of the universe seems to appeal more to people of his stature.

Now imagine an entire upper class of people with Einstein intelligence. One could get to work curing cancer, one could solve that pesky poverty problem, another could figure out world peace. Unless those are your jobs, you probably don't have to worry about being replaced by a superhuman.

Having genetically superior people on the planet would benefit the rest of us, just from the amazing things they'd accomplish. No one would complain about millions of Einsteins in our population if they were born naturally. Why on earth would it make any difference if it was artificial? The benefit to the human race would be the same.

Anyway, luxury technology trickles down. You might as well worry about the invention of air bags and cell phones ... things only the rich could once afford. Worrying about premium benefits to rich/connected people only prolongs the time when the rest of us can get them, too. Genetic science is getting faster and cheaper all the time.

Sure, humans have discrimination in their history. But the trend is LESS discrimination, especially for more advanced technological societies. We already have a parallel in our culture: how we treat people with genetic disorders. People with disabilities are protected by law from discrimination. We have entire industries devoted to catering to their needs. It's sheer paranoia to worry about genetically superior humans having less compassion for those "beneath" them than we do ourselves. It's just Luddite fear-mongering.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie

Male
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 2501

Thanks: 18
Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts


8355 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

I suppose that, as a Catholic, there's no need for me to give my opinion (an opinion which bypasses the imbroglio of Consequentialistically-based argumentation) on this subject, right?

Right.
_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13702

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76988 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just poking--my job is a little crappy from time to time but I wouldn't trade it for anything....unless someone comes along offering me a 10% or 15% raise to do similar work, in which case I will gladly trade it.

The potential risks notwithstanding, I know what you mean--the benefits outweigh the risks to such a degree that custom-designing human beings is a gamble worth taking. It doesn't just have to be intelligence, either, even though that should be the primary goal, but what if were able to design humans with increased longevity or an increased resistance to disease? Custom-designed plants have led to increased yield per plant as well as things like that hybrid that grows a potato below the ground and some other vegetable (I forget which one) above ground.

New technology always starts off expensive then gets cheaper. I want an OLED monitor but I am not going to spend $5000 to $20000 for one because I am not in professional video production. I want the best electric car on the market at this time but I can't afford $40k for a new base-model Tesla.

Genetic manipulation is probably moot, in any event. We have the technology now that allows us to create artificial limbs which interface with our brain--it will even allow person A to control a limb attached to person B, just to demonstrate the usability of the device--so it is almost to the point where even paraplegia won't be a significant disadvantage in 10 years. Didn't surgeons recently conduct a successful head transplant? I want to say I read that but I'll have to track down the article. Next step: brain transplant. I just hope I live long enough to see technological marvels which were impossible even 10 years ago.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vraith
Obligate Metaphor


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10620

Thanks: 17
Thanked 99 Times in 96 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
31673 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

Genetic manipulation is probably moot, in any event. We have the technology

This is the better way to do it. It is more precise, simpler to understand, and as far as I can see can do every/anything gene-mods could do and more, with much less chance of failure and unintended consequences.
I read recently a blurb about "bionic" eye implant, gives you better-than-normal human sight, and I think takes about 10 minutes to do.
Why would you go messing with the complication/complexity/unforeseeable in modifying eyesight genes [that may not work---lets not forget nurture/epigenetics in all this], when equal/better option already exists?

Which isn't to say we should stop learning/developing genetic science.
That would be dumb.
Maybe, in the future when we have much better whole-human models and quantum computers to manage the info, custom-made humans from the genes up will make sense. But I don't see how it does now.
_________________
Spoiler:
Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18322

Thanks: 42
Thanked 188 Times in 180 Posts


28874 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should just engineer a super-human ethicist, and ask her what to do on this issue. Quandary solved.


Laughing
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 13702

Thanks: 24
Thanked 121 Times in 117 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
76988 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:

I read recently a blurb about "bionic" eye implant, gives you better-than-normal human sight, and I think takes about 10 minutes to do.


Every time I tell Mrs. Lebwohl that I want enhanced prosthetic eyes, even if that means losing my natural ones, she gets this weird combination of being upset and annoyed because she thinks I am wanting to hurt myself. Where is the downside? My prosthetic eyes could be equipped with cameras and have better vision than I have now (although not bad enough to need glasses I do sometimes have problems reading things, especially road signs at night). We can also get them fitted with low-light settings so we can see things like cats see them.

Along the same path Z proposed, we have the process to enhance humans so we make one. That enhanced human studies the process, says "you people are stupid--do it this way", improves the process, and makes another human who is even better. That human, in turn, looks at the first enhanced human and says "you are so cute" then improves the process yet again, and so on and so forth. By the fourth or fifth iteration of this process I suspect the pitfalls will have been worked out and/or avoided.

Don't forget this sage advice:


Ambassador Kosh wrote:
Evolution crawls towards imperfection.


If we can make ourselves better then we should make ourselves better.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vraith
Obligate Metaphor


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 10620

Thanks: 17
Thanked 99 Times in 96 Posts

Location: everywhere, all the time
31673 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Raver1 Wraith1 Caesure


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
We should just engineer a super-human ethicist, and ask her what to do on this issue. Quandary solved.


Laughing


Hah...that's pretty damn funny.
Just hope things don't get too Rael, and your super-human ethicist partners with the
Supernatural Anaesthetist.

H...good idea, in theory...but DNA is complicated, complex, and chaotic.
We can't solve a 3-body problem, what are the chances with a 23-body problem [just in chromo pairs, what if it's a 22,000-body [the protein coder number, roughly] problem? Or worse, that any base pair can make a difference like the famed hurricane-causing butterfly, so it's a Billions-body problem?].

And, like I said, it doesn't seem to me that there is anything that code-editing can do that tech can't do at least as, or maybe more, efficiently/effectively.
And one of the things the tech can probably do is make us more capable of managing/knowing what we need to about genetics before we fuck up too much.

_________________
Spoiler:
Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 57869

Thanks: 73
Thanked 174 Times in 170 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
29408 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, it's going to happen, and chances are it won't only be after all the potential consequences are thought of. But that's how we learn I guess. Or the survivors anyway. Very Happy

--A
_________________
It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
peter
the aging savage


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 8333

Thanks: 40
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts


39023 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly not a view that will be much appreciated, but I think like it or not this stuff is going to be done - all of it! There is no effective way to prevent the advances of any of this type of knowledge [or any other come to that], and so better that it is done in the open spirit of scientific research [if that still exists] and under the watchfull eye of state bodies whose interest is to limit the worst excesses that scientists in an ubridled state may be prepared to run to [re the 'humanity' and minimalisation of cruelty and suffering etc]. The alternative is that the research will continue 'underground' or in countries who do not share the same etical sensibilities as perhaps we do. If it is to be done then let it be so. If we are [or some of us are] to be 'supermen' in the future then this must be our destiny, so lets get on with it. Prepare for the 'post Homo sapiens man' for he is coming like it or not. [Please add 'woman' and 'she' into the appropriate slots in the previous sentance {or remove 'man', replace 'being' and add it!}]

(edit; Just looked at the back posts and of course all of that has been said already - twat!)
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18491

Thanks: 100
Thanked 97 Times in 93 Posts


10528 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julian May's Jack the Bodiless came out in 1991. Here's a couple paragraphs:
Quote:
Even the most carefully executed genetic engineering procedures still carried some risks all throughout the twenty-first century, since inserting extra genes into a person’s blueprint might produce unexpectedly disastrous effects through some hitherto unknown action of pleiotropy. There was also the perplexing matter of self-redaction, in which a person’s mind was known to influence the way that genes “expressed” themselves for better or worse.

Certain gene complexes causing serious defects proved to be completely intractable to engineering, and so did some “good” genes that might have been used eugenically. Traits such as intelligence and personality turned out to be controlled by a bewildering interaction among more than sixteen thousand different genes—effectively banishing any possibility of genetically engineering the brain. As the reader of these Memoirs has probably already suspected, the so-called immortality gene complex occurring in the Remillard family was never successfully transplanted either, except by the good old-fashioned technique called sexual intercourse.
Has this sci-fi limitation been proven false in the intervening 24 years? Do we now know that intelligence is only a very small number of genes, and, therefore, something we can engineer?
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Loresraat All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch