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Let's Talk About Mr. Morgan....
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duchess of malfi
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Let's Talk About Mr. Morgan.... Reply with quote

Perhaps no other character is seen so little by the actual eyes of the reader and manages to have so great an impact on these two books...we see him quite a bit through the eyes of his daugher...who he has had a huge impact one...

What do we know about this character?
we know he is rich and powerful
he abuses his only child
he wants CONTROL

does he also abuse his wife???
did he ever love Terisa or her mother?
why does no one report his abuse of Terisa??
what do you think his eventual plans were for his daughter?
(somehow I see him marrying her off to some old fart crony as part of a business deal...)
do you think he is evil? (I do)...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is evil! Kinda a reverse Lord Foul. Terisa escapes into a different world to escape her "Foul". A very selfserving man, hiding his daughter away from the world, locking her in closets, structuring her limited life, neglect..The way he acts at the end of TMOHD is abominable. No wonder one of her talents is "going away to the place deep inside of her".
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duchess of malfi
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think he ever loved his wife? Did he pick her out because she was already passive, or did she become so as a result of abuse, as did her daughter? Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danlo wrote:
The way he acts at the end of TMOHD is abominable.


Huh? He's not in that book.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant AMRT, sorry--scanning books 4 specific info can make you loopy... Embarassed
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree... He acted like a total something I can't say because Danlo will edit it out Very Happy

Saying he was going to punish her like that. If I was her, I'd do what she did when chained up by Eremis. Hit him where it hurts. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would have been a good thing to see. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump for a question that came up in the Favorite Master thread:

Should Terisa have given her dad another chance?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myste wrote:
bump for a question that came up in the Favorite Master thread:

Should Terisa have given her dad another chance?


Good idea Smile .

Yes, I believe she should have given her father another chance. Maybe he wasn't that evil as described in the book. I believe he just got into a great depression after his wife's death and then he just couldn't give his daughter all that love he wanted to give. Maybe he even knew that his wife was going to die for a very long time. It could have affect him quite much.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninquelote wrote:
Maybe he wasn't that evil as described in the book. I believe he just got into a great depression after his wife's death and then he just couldn't give his daughter all that love he wanted to give. Maybe he even knew that his wife was going to die for a very long time. It could have affect him quite much.


Ninquelote brings up a good point--it's true that the only perspective we really get on Mr. Morgan is Terisa's, and she's obviously biased....

but I still think that the constant comparisons to Master Eremis, who is obviously a Despiser-type character, are a strong clue to how SRD wants us to view Mr. Morgan. This is the guy whose punishments made Terisa stop believing in her own reality...I mean, whatever the reasons behind it (whether he's absolutely evil, grieving for his wife [whom he cheated on frequently, if I remember right], or just a bad parent), he's the guy who locked her in a closet and threw coats & stuff on top of her so he wouldn't have to listen to her cry.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're absolutely right. It certainly wasn't a noble deed to throw Terisa in a closet and making her permantely marked. But I just can't believe in pure evil. Master Eremis seems to be very much like his father. Eremis seems to be pretty evil in the book. It didn't really came to me how Eremis was seized with this profound hatred of, for example, Joyse. A mirror couldn't possible a young boy grow such hatred. I think it's illogical. But then again, we don't get much information about Eremis childhood in the book.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that that's one of Donaldson's big questions: Where does evil come from? I mean, what makes Eremis want to destroy Joyse? What makes Mr. Morgan treat Terisa so horribly? Why does Lord Foul want everyone in the Land to be miserable? Why are so many of the characters in the Gap series so icky? There's a discussion of evil in the TC forum, worth a look:
http://kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=767
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pitch's topic should clearly be in the Watch Hall of Fame! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myste wrote:
bump for a question that came up in the Favorite Master thread:

Should Terisa have given her dad another chance?


No way! I mean come on! Who would have she been happier with, her dad, or Geraden?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Lord Revan. Terisa's dad had his chance to be a good parent and he blew it. Just how many chances does he deserve? "Mr. Morgan, we must insist that you be a good, caring human being this time. If you fail, then we will be forced to give you another lecture, and possibly even a slap on the wrist."
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it went beyond locking her in a closet, bad as that was, and was also actual physical abuse. In the chapters when Terisa is imprisoned and Lebbick hits her, she thinks about her father not stopping hurting her when she begs him, either... Sad

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But the Castellan didn't listen to her. He took hold of her shoulders and kissed her like a blow. Then he did hit her; she staggered against the wall and fell. It was the second time he had hit her. The first time, she had been full of audacity. She had told him that his wife would have been ashamed of him. She could almost have foreseen that he would hit her. But this time she was begging. Please don't do this to me. And he hit her anyway. Like her father, he didn't stop.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duchess of malfi wrote:
I think it went beyond locking her in a closet, bad as that was, and was also actual physical abuse. In the chapters when Terisa is imprisoned and Lebbick hits her, she thinks about her father not stopping hurting her when she begs him, either... Sad


I never read it that way before, duchess...I guessed that most of the abuse Mr. Morgan practiced on Terisa was emotional. Isn't there something in the beginning of MOHD where she remembers her mother's death, and how she had cried, and it was the only time her father ever actually hit her? Then he got drunk and passed out. I wish I had my copy with me...
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Terisa & Geridan went back to her place and saw her Dad, I don't know about you but I had WISHED her dad would be like; "I missed you and am so glad you are alive, and I am now going to ask you for forgiveness because I was awful and neglected you and I learned my lesson..."
And He blew it. None of that happened. He acted like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way. He was embarrassed because he wouldn't get as much money or he would look bad... In fact by saying he was going to punish her he DID look bad...
Made it easier for Terisa to want to stay in Mordant... Didn't it?
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Myste's interpretation here - the statement "he didn't stop" was about the particular abuse being inflicted, not about hitting specificly.

I'm also of the opinion that Mr. Morgan's business spent more time than not on the shady side of the law. Remember that one of the things Terisa said her father used money for was "muscle". It could be he was a Mafia Don hiring hit men...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IrrationalSanity wrote:

I'm also of the opinion that Mr. Morgan's business spent more time than not on the shady side of the law. Remember that one of the things Terisa said her father used money for was "muscle". It could be he was a Mafia Don hiring hit men...


Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Morgan fancied himself to be above the law to some extent. I would imagine that sense of power could make a person quite arrogant and disdainful in his treatment of his fellow human beings.

That conversation with the Domne where Terisa mentions her father used money to hire "muscle" does provide a lot of insight. It's telling when, after she describes her father's activities, the Domne jokes to Terisa that it seems to him she has already met High King Festten. I guess Terisa's father and the High King are like mirror images of each other in a way: both are rulers of their respective domains, and both are corrupt bastards who are used to brutal methods of achieving their ends.
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