Lord Foul's Bane - Chapters 17 & 18

Earthblood

So we leave the beauty & living embodiment of Earthpower in Andelain and run directly into the embodiment of Lord Foul & his desecration at the destruction & ensuing Battle of Soaring Woodhelven.

We get our first large dose of Foul's best shot at the Lords & thier work. It struck me as the antithesis of the lord's efforts of preserving life and all it's beauty - Foul wants to pervert life and then destroy it.

We also see for the first time the unbelievable skill & servitude of the Bloodguard. I was again amazed by thier agility & calm approach to any situation:

Foamfollower1013 · Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2002 4:22 am Post subject:

duchess of malfi · Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2002 5:03 am Post subject:

Yes, Foamy, I do think that is a bit of prophecy, or "sight" on TC's part. There's a second bit of foreshadowing right at the end of the chapter, too. "Bannor stepped over the dead wolf and pulled Grace's rope from around its neck. Holding the cord in a fighting grip, he stretched it taut. "A good weapon," he said with his awkward inflectioussness. "The Ramen did mighty work with it in the days when High Lord Kevin fought Corruption openly." Something in his tone reminded Covenant that the Bloodguard were lusty men who had gone unwived for more than two thousand years. Then, on the spur of an obscure impulse, Bannor tightened his muscles, and the rope snapped. Shrugging slightly, he dropped the pieces on the dead kresh. His movement had the finality of a prophecy. Without a glance at Cord Grace, he left the hilltop to mount the Ranyhyn that had chosen him."
Spoiler:

When Bannor is finally free of his Vow, he will return to the Plains of Ra and serve the Ranyhyn rather than remain home in the mountains with his people or take another wife. The remnants of the Ramen accept these former Bloodguard because so many of their own leaders had been killed, and the Bloodguard become war leaders of sorts for the Ramen.

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danlo · Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:25 am Post subject:

Outstanding intro Earthy! Incredible quotes--I better put on my spoiler muzzle right now--but real quicky there r So many cool connections that start here and end in TPTP. Rayhyn, Foam, Pietten, Morinmoss. It took me 2 readings 2 fully understand the incredible xtent and weirdness of TC's dilemma after Soaring Woodhelven--it's just 2 incredibly deep--as the above quotes indicate...SHFF's solution is so simple--but SO incredibly painful 2 watch--SO deep it could make the Worm weep! This was the 1st time in the Cronicles I openly wept...the 1st time SRD grabbed me by my shirt--threw me 2 the dirt and said, "You are mine...groveler!". Raver

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I've always thought that TC carries the Oath of Peace in his heart (other than the Lena thing, of course). When he kills here, in defense of others, he just cannot deal with it. Crying or Very sad

Unfortunately, this happens at a time when Foamy and Mhoram are carrying their own heavy emotional loads and can't help him. The guilt and horror of killing others overtakes him emotionally and spiritually, and he becomes passively suicidal through his eating strike Crying or Very sad

Spoiler:

and by trying to walk into High Lord Kevin's fire in Mount Thunder.

Earthblood · Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:47 am Post subject:

Good question Foamy - it does sort of make you wonder about the marking of only those two as they pass thru Morinmoss. Maybe the forest itself was making them aware of its desire of them to take action.

Spoiler:

Later after the Battle at Doom's Retreat, the Forestal responds to Mhoram & allows the army in, and later acknowledges TC after his little trip 'down under' to Melenkurion Skyweir *heh heh Sky* Laughing

and Elena's sip of *gulp* earthblood Twisted Evil

I also found Bannor's treatment of the Ramen's cord symbolic. Even if I disregard the future actions of Bannor in regard to the Ramen, I still found it a bit of a 'measuring stick' by Bannor - sort of measuring the Ramen to himself & the Bloodguard. They came closer than most, but not quite...like anyone could equal the Bloodguard!!!
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duchess of malfi · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:20 am Post subject:

Well, of course, no one could equal the Bloodguard! They rock!
One thing that I always have found disturbing about these chapters is how clearly Foul's general nastiness and evilness come through. It's not enough for him to just kill and slaughter the innocent, but he has to torment the very souls of the survivors as well, and use them to destroy what they most love. What was done to the two survivors of Soaring Woodhelvin is just...wrong...I think the Bloodguard name for Foul says it all -- Corruption. Evil or Very Mad

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Lady Genni · Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 9:32 pm Post subject:

Off all the times I've read this series, these chapters always stand out in my mind. I think it's because it's the first time we really see how horrible LF's manipulations are. The buring of the tree has always really gotten to me. Just the image of a tree big enough to house a whole villiage is awsome, but to have it destroyed...is just heartbreaking. Then of course one thinks of the children that SRD described running and playing in the branches...gone.

I too cried at this turn of events in the story.

I've never quite understood TC's reaction to all of it though. He's angry enough at LF to fight but shamed by his rage. For someone who committed rape, why would killing evil creatures be so hard to justify? This is were TC starts to really annoy me. I understand the turn that the story is taking and his necessary "unbelief" but just as you the reader are really getting emotionally involved with the story, TC seems to withdraw from it.

I'm sure the SRD did this intentially to keep us the reader ingaged but shoot, even after reading it through countless times it's still frustrating that TC is such a weenie at this point in the story.
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aliantha · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:30 pm Post subject:

Wow, good going, as usual, guys! Dunno what I can add, except to point out that SRD was a conscientious objector during Vietnam. I think that here, and throughout the 1st Chrons, TC is wrestling with some of SRD's own demons. Is the taking of a life ever justified? Yes, Foul's forces are corrupt, but don't they deserve to live anyhow? Yes, they've burned down Soaring Woodhelvin and killed members of the Quest, but is revenge sufficient justification for more killing? What about turning the other cheek?

Not to mention that in the Land's battles, it's pretty clear that the right people are fighting the Bad Guys -- unlike in Vietnam, where a lot of Americans wondered what the heck we were doing over there.

For TC, the battle at Soaring Woodhelvin is angst piled atop angst. How many more cardinal sins is the guy going to be dragged/tricked/forced into committing in this odd world? First rape, now murder.... One of the things that this scene points up is TC's inherent goodness. He's so in denial about the rape that he's disassociated himself from the event, but now, again, he's got blood on his hands. He's not a guy who rapes as a matter of course; he's not a guy who kills lightly. He has a moral code, and it's driving him crazy. And now he is committed to never kill again. Spoiler:

Boy, won't Foul have fun trying to change his mind...

Lady Genni · Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:44 pm Post subject:

Sorry, got to do this one in spoiler mode

Spoiler:

Anyone else find it odd that the battle of Soaring Woodhelvin is where TC *vows* not to kill again and the next person he kills is the only living survivor? Pietten

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"By the Seven...!"

Foamfollower1013 · Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:31 am Post subject:

That is interesting. Hmm. *ponders the implications of that*

~Foamy~

Lord Mhoram · Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:07 pm Post subject:

Very ironic... Confused

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Finally catching up...
I really enjoyed reading everybody's comments, yes these chapters do seem to seed many events in the sequel.

I'm embaressed to admit that although this is my third reading, I still didn't get to the bottom of Covenant's dillema. (Danlo, help us out here! Confused

) Is it about the land being real or not? Is it the dillema of his sickness - that he needed the support of other people to endure his situation, but his situation was exactly what drove people away from him?

His behavior dosen't make sense to me. He seems to be oscillating between numbness and intensity. Why does the fact that he killed the attacking cavewights, in an act of self defense, distress him so much?

- pitch

danlo · Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:11 am Post subject:

M. Giantfriend's assesment of TC's situation is very eloquently stated in his intro 2 chapters 19 & 20 the "reality" of the Land is really starting 2 get 2 him--the more blood on his hands the more he either has 2 accept the Land or go mad in hell--the dream drives him crazy because he keeps being forced 2 do thing he's opposed 2--I suppose SRD's personal non-violent philosophy is coming thru TC right now...

The number of non-violent persons in NM, like myself and SRD, is astonishing considering the # of Federal Gov't workers and military in this state, the birthplace of the Atomic Bomb...
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duchess of malfi · Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:07 am Post subject:

Pitch, I've always thought that his sanity is a little shakey in these chapters! If he were a juggler all of the balls would be tumbling down...
Michael Giantfriend's analysis is masterful in the intro to the next two chapters... Very Happy

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MsMary · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject:

Foamy, I really like the quotes you picked to post for these chapters. I was also struck by those passages.

I was also struck by the way TC was so upset by all the killing. He is really disturbed by the killing he did himself, but also by the Bloodguard that was killed protecting the already dead Tamarantha and Variol. What he says then is what you'd call politically incorrect..."For a couple of corpses?" But I understand his reason for being upset and appalled at all the death. But he doesn't know how to express it and so appears unfeeling.

~MsMary~
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A Gunslinger · Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject:

One of myfavorite passages in CH18 is when Mhorma asks TC about his world out of "simple firendship"..it is an essetial window into the gentle and honest nature of Mhoram.

Spoiler:

I was appalled when (in the 2nd chronicles) Mhoram's name was used as title for the Raver/Lord.

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Krazy Kat · Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:35 am Post subject:

[/quote] by Pitch - guest (see above)
I've always thought that TC carries the Oath of Peace in his heart (other than the Lena thing, of course). When he kills here, in defense of others, he just cannot deal with it. Crying or Very sad Unfortunately, this happens at a time when Foamy and Mhoram are carrying their own heavy emotional loads and can't help him. The guilt and horror of killing others overtakes him emotionally and spiritually, and he becomes passively suicidal through his eating strike Crying or Very sad Spoiler:

Spew

film quote: "pass the salt..." Woody Allen (in the L.A. hotel room) Annie Hall.

Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject:

I was intrigued by Morinmoss marking both Covenant and Mhoram. They are the only two of the Quest who will later experience victories over both Despair and The Despiser.

Also
Spoiler:

compare the marks on Covenant, described as "like a chart, a map to unknown regions". This is very similar to the grass stains imprinted on Linden's pants during Runes of the Earth. I can only presume that the Land is leaving its mark on them, literally. Caerroil Wildwood himself noted Linden's grass stains.

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