Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Time Travel
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Close
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nathan
What does it mean by custom rank?

Male
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 2427

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Location: Nottingham
903 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Starmaster1 Viable Dreams1 Land's Drop


PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Time is nothing but another direction, and at some point, technology will allow us to alter our position relative to the time flow.


what's the basis for this assumption? I accept the logic that if we were to travel faster than light we could see events that happened in the past, but it still doesn't allow you to alter them, because all you're seeing are echoes of the past, and that's not really anything special, we see years old light from stars every day.

The possible applications are limited too. Only light that hasn't already been absorbed by something else could be viewed with this method. Also, to get the speed necessary to view things that happened, sat, an hour ago, would require vast amounts of space, and trying to view anything of less than planetary scale would be out of the question.
_________________
Spoiler:
If you change the font to white within spoiler tags does it break them?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55871

Thanks: 72
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
23532 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL

There is no basis for that assumption, (didn't you read my disclaimer?), other than perhaps the fact that nothing can predict the appearance of genius in the human race.

All of our technological advances were, at one time or another, assumptions based on nothing more than the fact that people had conceived them, and thus it was theoretically possible that one day, they may come into being.

The whole teleportation thing should be a case in point. Or is that point in case? I'm never sure Wink

Still, thanks for reading it Laughing

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
The Dreaming
21st Century Schizoid Man

Male
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 1921

Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

Location: Louisville KY
6657 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Free Lunch


PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, there is always the mad scientist kills his own grandfather paradox to consider. From a certain point of view though, you can say that obviously, the mad scientist never did kill her because he exists. Anyone who has traveled in time has already done so and didn't change history, they shaped it.

Anyhow, just a little whimsical take on the whole thing. And about absolute zero, I think that as long as there is heat anywhere in the universe, it will be unattainable. You can get so damn close it doesn't matter, but as long as there is a single vibrating atom in the universe, no others will completely stop.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Phoogle Map
Sweet Brutha Numpsay
Woodhelvennin

Male
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 66

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Ohio
0 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time Machines: (Time Trave)l: Fact or Fiction?

Here's a doosy or is it doosie? for ya. Cited info also if you must. Just dont hold me by the neck and responsible this,
Thread had been dead for 3 months!


Ever since H. G. Wells wrote his classic novel The Time Machine, there has been a continuing fascination with time travel. This dream of time travel has invaded every part of society, from the mass media to the micro media. With recent advancements in science and technology, scientists have been able to theoretically prove that it is possible to travel through time.

In 1905 Albert Einstein published his theory of relativity. His theory predicted that time slows down as you approach high speeds. (Brian) This is some times called time dilation. (Encarta) As objects approach the speed of light, time slows to "a snails pace," at the speed of light time stops, and if the object could travel faster than the speed of light time would travel backwards. This is the key point in building a time machine. If a person were able to travel faster than the speed of light they would travel back in time. This example of a time machine is sometimes called the twins paradox. (Time Travel)

The twins paradox is a very simple way to explain how Einstein's theory works. There are two twins identical in every conceivable way. They were born at the same exact moment and they look exactly alike. One twin

boards a large spaceship and is sent hurdling off into space almost at the speed of light, while the other twin remains on earth. Time for the twin on the spaceship has almost stopped, while time for the earth bound twin has remained at its constant rate. When the twin on the spaceship returns home after some time, he finds that his brother is as old as their grandfather. Time slowed down for the spaceship twin, which kept him from aging. (Time Travel Research Center)

Until the creation of atomic clocks Einstein's theory was just the ramblings of a nerd. In the nineteen sixties two scientists named Keating and Hafele proved Einstein's theory. They synchronized two atomic clocks and flew one around the world. Using Einstein's equations they predicted the amount of time that the clocks would disagree with each other. They connected both of the clocks to a computer and found that Einstein was correct. The clocks disagreed with each other by nine nanoseconds, just as Einstein had predicted. This helped prove that time machines are a reality. (Time Travel)

Now, some opponents of time travel say that it is impossible to logically send a person at the speed of light without killing them because of


the "G" forces involved. When a person accelerates they experience a force pushing you back, this is called "G" force. To accelerate to the speed of light

in a short amount of time would crush the person. The only other option is to accelerate the person very slowly over a long period of time. This does not work because by the time the person reached the speed of light you would not need a time machine because they would already be in the future. In other words, it would just take too long.

This is where wormholes come into play. A wormhole is a special kind of gateway through the universe. Most of us know wormholes from "Star Trek" and other science fiction creations. The easiest way to understand a wormhole is by thinking of the universe as a flat sheet of paper. Normally, a person would have to travel laterally across the paper. If the paper were curved in a "c" shape, one could travel from the top of the "c" to the bottom part via the space in between with a wormhole. A wormhole is a way to get from one point in space to another point in space without having to travel the normal distance. (Gribbon)

There are three main ways to warp time in a wormhole. First, the object can go into the wormhole and come out the wormhole at the same


time. So, there is no true warp of time. Second, the object can appear out of the wormhole even before the object enters the other end. In this case the wormhole "speeds up" time, and the object goes into the past. This is what happens when an object goes faster than the speed of light. Finally, the object sent into the wormhole exits the wormhole only after some time delay. In this case the wormhole slows time down, and the object goes into the future. This happens as an object approaches the speed of light. (Time Travel) So to create a time machine, a person would have to accelerate one end of a wormhole close to the speed of light.

However, there are a couple of minor glitches in the wormhole theory. First, where is there a readily available wormhole? Well, a scientist named John Wheeler believes in a substance called quantum foam. Way down past the subatomic level there is believed to be a certain kind of smooth froth of wormholes. The only other option is the wormhole predicted by Einstein's equations, but that wormhole only exists for a second, then it disappears. Second, if we were able to get one of these little micro-wormholes we would need a way to keep it open. (Time Travel)

Einstein also said that in the universe there must be a kind of "negative energy." He stated that you would need this so-called "negative

energy" to keep the wormhole open. John Wheeler and his associates have found that it is possible to make this energy in the lab, by squeezing electrons out of a vacuum. But, they can only make this energy in very small amounts. Einstein's equations said that you would need at least a Jupiter size amount of this energy to sustain a one-meter wide wormhole. (Time Travel) So we would need to find someway of storing this energy for later use.

In Conclusion, it is possible to build a time machine. The field of science is expanding every day. Scientists only have to find some way of storing this "negative energy," and to send one end of the wormhole close to the speed of light. Time machines are a reality and it is possible to make one. One thousand years from now if human kind still exists, we will look of our past understanding of the universe as we knew, and laugh at it. Just like we do of our knowledge merely hundreds of years ago.




Works Cited


Brian. Brian's Views on Time Travel and Interdimensional Voyages. 16

March 2001. <http://www.iit.edu/~bosabri/time.html>.


Encarta Encyclopedia Standard 2001. Computer Software.

Microsoft, 2000


"Time Travel" Narr. Stacey Keach. Nova. PBS. WGBH, Boston. 12 Oct.

1999.


Gribbon, John. EverythingYou Always Wanted To Know Time Travel. 20

Nov. 1996. <http://www.biols.susx.ac.uk/home/John_Gribbin/Time_Travel.html>


Time Travel Research Center. Smithtown, NY. 14 June 2001.

<http://www.time-travel.com/physics.htm>.
_________________
"What is your name?"
"That is another long story," the Giant returned and repeated, "What is your need?"
But Atiaran insisted dully, "Your name."
Again a gleam sprang from under the Giant's massive brows. "There is power in names."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55871

Thanks: 72
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
23532 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleveland wrote:
...One thousand years from now if human kind still exists, we will look of our past understanding of the universe as we knew, and laugh at it. Just like we do of our knowledge merely hundreds of years ago.


Exactly. Although we always assume that we were wrong then, but we're right now, nothing could be further from the truth. Our entire concept of science, physics, the universe itself, is merely a working hypothesis, pending new data.

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
JemCheeta
All Fettered Up

Male
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 2010

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


254 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Oath of Peace1 Covenant's Sword and Plate Armor1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute avatar... if our perception of time is (necessarily) human-derived, (obviously tongue in cheek here) how can you be certain that time existed before we did?
I know how creative you can be on the construction of the universe, so I don't think this question is TOO ridiculous for an answer. I always assumed that we think about time the way we do because it's most useful to us. The passage of time in its ordered fashion seems to me to be about as integral to human existance as say...limiting our sight to three dimmensions at any given time.
We see the passage of time, but not time itself
_________________
It isn't that you couldn't see the forest from the trees, it's just that you've never been out in the woods alone.
-Ben Folds Five, Philosophy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55871

Thanks: 72
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
23532 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can't be certain that time existed before we did. We infer it from the fact that the earth was here and old before any recorded human history, but thats all it is: an assumption, an inference.

There is no guarantee that anything existed before we did. Hell, there's no guarantee that anything existed before I did.

You make a good point in suggesting that all we see is time's passage, or the effects of time around us. And as I said, it comes down to our perception of it.

I'll never forget the first time I went overseas with the GF, and she encountered the practice of daylight savings. (We don't do it here in SA). She was horrified at the thought that they simply put the clocks back. It was her first glimpse of the idea that time was a human construct.

Of course, any idea that time exists soley because of us returns us to the question of solipsism, and the fundamental reality of the universe.

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
JemCheeta
All Fettered Up

Male
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 2010

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


254 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Oath of Peace1 Covenant's Sword and Plate Armor1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite in the same way, however. As far as returning to the solipsism question... I don't remember if you did that when you were talking about matter and space being a sort of a human illusion. I think that the time question has more to do with utility.. before cause and effect had been accepted as obvious to western man (it's so hard to imagine a world in which this was not the case) there were different ways of thinking...

Nevermind that.
I just think its interesting that in the creation stories, so often do we have the creation of Space and Time at the foundation of the beginning of the universe. Mother Earth and Father Time, the various 'days' of the christian bible. Good stuff..
_________________
It isn't that you couldn't see the forest from the trees, it's just that you've never been out in the woods alone.
-Ben Folds Five, Philosophy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Phoogle Map
[Syl]
Embattred


Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 12838

Thanks: 83
Thanked 57 Times in 55 Posts


3127 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really know how to add to this. On one hand, I do quite easily take the solipsist view and with a fair degree of certainty say that matter, time, and space are illusions, a vast nothingness with form.

On the other hand, my left-brained self feels compelled to point out that time exists on more than the human scale if only for the fact that gravity is a function of time on matter (as Einstein explains it. don't ask me to try).

I don't think time travel the way we think about it is possible. Anything with mass has to exist in one given time in space. More later.
_________________
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.
-George Steiner
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18138

Thanks: 98
Thanked 90 Times in 86 Posts


9071 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aTOMiC wrote:
If time travel were possible wouldn't time travelers who are obviously possessed of advanced technology and a better understand of the universe, have tools at their disposal to prevent detection of their presence in the past?
This is possible in theory, but not in practice. Someone from the future would screw it up, forget to turn on his inviso-shield, or the shield would break down at the wrong moment, or he would try to take over our time using his knowledge of future events, or, or, or... We routinely screw up whatever technology we have, whether it's making computer viruses, accidental meltdowns in nuclear reactors, space shuttles exploding, etc. We could never hide time travel.

aTOMiC wrote:
It is also possible that travelers through time are able to witness past events but are unable to physically interact with them. Sort of like phantom state of existence while in the past. Many ghost sightings could just be time travelers having a nice look see. Very Happy
Yeah, I suppose this idea is possible.
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
danlo
Lord of Neverness


Joined: 06 Mar 2002
Posts: 20840

Thanks: 43
Thanked 55 Times in 55 Posts

Location: Albuquerque NM
2493 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2005 Watcher of the Year1 Sandgorgon1 Skyweir


PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys seriously need to read Tony Daniel. (Metaplanetary/Superluminal) Cool ...and Christopher Priest's An Infinite Summer, while you're at it...(and, maybe, I'll throw in Priest's Indoctrinaire, to really mess with your minds Razz )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55871

Thanks: 72
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
23532 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caer Sylvanus wrote:
I don't think time travel the way we think about it is possible. Anything with mass has to exist in one given time in space.


Although on the whole, I think you're probably right here, have you considered the possibility that the "mass" and the "space" are less than independent? Perhaps we're approaching the old Everet-Wheeler-Graham model of multiple universes here, but what if that space exists, with the mass, somewhere else?

There is no guarantee that there is only one "space" and that all mass exists in it. Perhaps each passing second duplicates space, and all the associated mass. If this were so, (and I better say that I don't necessarily believe that it is), then each "second" would exist as an entirely seperate "universe", and thus it should be possible to visit them. Of course, they might be entirely "static" universes, with no independant "life", but they would be there, somewhere in the "past".

danlo-- I'll keep an eye out for them. Thanks for the recommendation Smile

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
JemCheeta
All Fettered Up

Male
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 2010

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


254 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Oath of Peace1 Covenant's Sword and Plate Armor1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no no, whoever said that the floating orbs with teeth eat the past about 5 minutes after we leave it, they answered all possible questions any of us could have had. Best possible scene, Linden Avery walks into the caesure, and immediately gets swallowed up by some ravenous langolier. Good times....


I don't know why, but I never really too the alternate universe idea seriously... it just never struck me as likely. Or time travel for that matter...maybe its because I feel like reality is already SO elastic based on changing perspective that its never really concerned me. I'm more concerned about coincidence than existence of alternate universes.

Of course that would last until just about the instant that it was determined that they did exist.
_________________
It isn't that you couldn't see the forest from the trees, it's just that you've never been out in the woods alone.
-Ben Folds Five, Philosophy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Phoogle Map
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 55871

Thanks: 72
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
23532 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran


PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JemCheeta wrote:
Of course that would last until just about the instant that it was determined that they did exist.


LOL

At least you're open to the possibility that you're wrong Wink

I don't know...I've always quite liked the multiple universe thing. I mean, if the universe is infinite, all things, no matter how unlikely, must be true somewhere. Smile

--Avatar
_________________
Don't believe everything you think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Sweet Brutha Numpsay
Woodhelvennin

Male
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 66

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Ohio
0 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was on my Yahoo news front page, sure fits eh,(The only problem is it says Star Trek fans, bastards got it all wrong) Didn't anyone send them the memo of the SRD fan site?lol.



Air Force report calls for $7.5M to study psychic teleportation

Fri Nov 5, 6:33 AM ET

By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY

Star Trek fans may be happy to hear that the Air Force has paid to study psychic teleportation. Borg

But scientists aren't so thrilled.


The Air Force Research Lab's August "Teleportation Physics Report," posted earlier this week on the Federation of American Scientists (FAS) Web site, struck a raw nerve with physicists and critics of wasteful military spending.


In the report, author Eric Davis says psychic teleportation, moving yourself from location to location through mind powers, is "quite real and can be controlled." The 88-page report also reviews a range of teleportation concepts and experiments:


Quantum teleportation, a technique demonstrated in the last decade that shifts the characteristics, but not the location, of sub-atomic particles at great distances.


Wormholes, a highly theoretical possibility whereby the intense gravitational field near black holes could rip open entrances to distant locales.


Psychokinesis, or psychic teleportation. In support of the idea, the report cites UFO reports, Soviet and Chinese studies of psychics and U.S. military studies of spoon-bending phenomena.


"It is in large part crackpot physics," says physicist Lawrence Krauss of Case Western Reserve University, author of The Physics of Star Trek, a book detailing the physical limits that prevent teleportation. He describes the Air Force report as "some things adapted from reasonable theoretical studies, and other things from nonsensical ones."


Some experts have long criticized what they see as a military sweet tooth for junk science. A "remote viewing" project, for example, undertaken by defense intelligence services and declassified in 1994, sought to see whether psychic powers could be employed to spy on the Soviet Union. The teleportation report "raises questions of scientific quality control at the Air Force," the FAS' Steven Aftergood says.


Davis, a physicist with Warp Drive Metrics of Las Vegas, couldn't be reached for comment. The Air Force paid $25,000 for the report, part of a $20.5 million advanced rocket and missile design contract. The report calls for $7.5 million to conduct psychic teleportation experiments.


"The views expressed in the report are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy of the Air Force, the Department of Defense (news - web sites) or the U.S. Government," says an Air Force Research Lab (AFRL) statement sent to USA TODAY. "There are no plans by the AFRL Propulsion Directorate for additional funding on this contract."


Explaining why the lab sponsored the study, AFRL spokesman Ranney Adams said, "If we don't turn over stones, we don't know if we have missed something."
_________________
"What is your name?"
"That is another long story," the Giant returned and repeated, "What is your need?"
But Atiaran insisted dully, "Your name."
Again a gleam sprang from under the Giant's massive brows. "There is power in names."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Iryssa
Bloodguard

Female
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 922

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: The great white north *grin*
2816 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is it with spoons? can't they find anything better to bend?
_________________
"A choice made freely is stronger than one compelled"
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Wounded Land

http://www.xanga.com/Iryssa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Loredoctor
Forensic Researcher

Male
Joined: 14 Jul 2002
Posts: 18606

Thanks: 24
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts


2364 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Calm Horizons1 2007 Watchies1 Ventrue Clan


PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with military labs is that they are damn inefficient and run off with conclusions without proper analysis or critique.
_________________
Waddley wrote:
your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Close All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch