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The Saddest Moment (Films or Books)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the books:
Death of Theoden and Éowyn's battle against the WitchKing.
A mixture of both sadness and exhilaration at the same time.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

malinda_maloney wrote:
The saddest part for me in the book was when Gandalf fell (I had read the Hobbit about twice before I read Lord of the Rings and had become quiet fond of the old goat).


That's me as well Malinda. I was pretty devastated when Gandalf fell. I actuallyy could read on for a few days!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord High Tolkien wrote
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the books:
Death of Theoden and Éowyn's battle against the WitchKing.
A mixture of both sadness and exhilaration at the same time.
One of my oldest friends in California agrees and she says the scene from the movie that covers that element only gets part of the power of the scene from the book.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The saddest part in the movies has always been when Treebeard, Merry, and Pip see the devestation of Isengard. The sudden shock and anger of the Ents is moving.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just reading the book again after 22 years, so I cannot comment on that yet. But for me the saddest moment that touched me from the movie was the death of Boremir. A true sad hero. His lands are the ones taking the brunt of evil and the ring presents a chance, but it is beyong him and his truly noble heart. And he succumbs. The moment when he sobs, "What have I done."... (sheesh, just writing that gave me shivers thinking about it...)
And then when he charges down to save the hobbits, fighting through every badass uber-orc, even after getting 3 ballista in the chest!!!! YAH! heroic and utterly sad, right down to the acknowledgement of his failure to Aragorn and speaking him king.

That touched me like no other part in the movie.

Quote:
I think in the book he died with 6 arrows in his chest not 3 as the movie showed?

I think he does get nailed by MANY arrows in the book, but I don't believe they are described as being as big as they are shown in the movie. Those are frik'n javelins with fletching!!!

Love that scene...
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to cite Frodo's "The Shire was saved, but not for me" line in the book, but I see Adept Havelock beat me to it.
Quote:
I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.

It deserves seconding, though, as it underscores the irrecoverable nature of Frodo's sacrifice. Wasn't everything supposed to be hunky-dory now?

Also, Boromir's death in the movie was powerful, but somewhat spoiled by the stoopid melodramatic lines PJ put in Sean Bean's mouth. JRRT's original was much more powerful IMO for being thought-provoking and somewhat understated, with Aragorn reassuring him.
Quote:
'Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.'
'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!'

(The first time reader no doubt says "Dude!. What are you smoking?! Victory?! Boromir's dead! He bit it! He's an Orc-arrow pincushion!") Boromir's death is a powerful scene of temptation, repentance, remorse, and redemption.

The poem at the end of the chapter "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields" summarizing the deaths of the fallen, was particularly poignant. "Red fell the dew in Rammas Echor."

The suicide of Denethor in the book was also sad for being so horrifying and wasteful.

Merry at Theoden's grave.
Then there's the scene of the party entering the Grey Havens to depart Middle-Earth forever.
Quote:
Then Elrond and Galadriel rode on; for the Third Age was over, and the Days of the Rings were passed, and an end was come of the story and song of those times. With them went many Elves of the High Kindred who would no longer stay in Middle-earth; and among them, filled with a sadness that was yet blessed and without bitterness, rode Sam, and Frodo, and Bilbo, and the Elves delighted to honour them.
Here is one of the great themes of Tolkien's Arda Cycle: the inevitability of change, and the passing of the old that was treasured to make way for the new in Eru's inscrutable plan for Arda and His Children.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movies wise...I lost it in TTT when Theoden & Gandalf are talking after the burial of Theodred ("no father should not have to bury his child")...

and the whole farewell sequence at the Grey Havens in ROTK. Sobbin' hobbits left me with a soaked t-shirt.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only spot I openly wept during the films was when at the end of RotK,newly crowned King Aragorn says to the hobbits, "My friends, you bow to no one" and then kneels before them.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
In the books:
Death of Theoden and Éowyn's battle against the WitchKing.
A mixture of both sadness and exhilaration at the same time.


I can understand why Peter Jackson eviscerated "The Houses of Healing" in the movies. He needed all the great lines of that chapter in order to develop the characters beforehand.

But Eowyn, IMHO, performed the greatest individual act of heroism of the Third Age, so I always feel moved when I hear the lines "What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek...", etc.

That was one of the few problems I had with the movies. I thought they removed the quiet hopeless dignity with which Eowyn faced the Witch-King, and replaced it with bravado.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'"At last, Lady Evenstar, fairest in this world, and most beloved, my world is fading. Lo! we have gathered, and we have spent, and now the time of payment draws near."

'Arwen knew well what he intended, and long had foreseen it; nonetheless she was overborne by her grief. "Would you then, lord, before your time leave your people that live by your word?" she said.

'"Not before my time," he answered. "For if I will not go now, then I must soon go perforce. And Eldarion our son is a man full-ripe for kingship."

'Then going to the House of the Kings in the Silent Street, Aragorn laid him down on the long bed that had been prepared for him. There he said farewell to Eldarion, and gave into his hands the winged crown of Gondor and the sceptre of Arnor; and then all left him save Arwen, and she stood alone by his bed. And for all her wisdom and lineage she could not forbear to plead with him to stay yet for a while. She was not yet weary of her days, and thus she tasted the bitterness of the mortality that she had taken upon her.

'"Lady Undómiel," said Aragorn, "the hour is indeed hard, yet it was made even in that day when we met under the white birches in the garden of Elrond where none now walk. And on the hill of Cerin Amroth when we forsook both the Shadow and the Twilight this doom we accepted. Take counsel with yourself, beloved, and ask whether you would indeed have me wait until I wither and fall from my high seat unmanned and witless. Nay, lady, I am the last of the Númenoreans and the latest King of the Elder Days; and to me has been given not only a span thrice that of Men of Middle-earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and give back the gift. Now, therefore, I will sleep.

'"I speak no comfort to you, for there is no comfort for such pain within the circles of the world. The uttermost choice is before you: to repent and go to the Havens and bear away into the West the memory of our days together that shall there be evergreen but never more than memory; or else to abide the Doom of Men."

'"Nay, dear lord," she said, "that choice is long over. There is now no ship that would bear me hence, and I must indeed abide the Doom of Men, whether I will or I nill: the loss and the silence. But I say to you, King of the Númenoreans, not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive."

'"So it seems," he said. "But let us not be overthrown at the final test, who of old renounced the Shadow and the Ring. In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!"

'"Estel, Estel!" she cried, and with that even as he took her hand and kissed it, he fell into sleep. Then a great beauty was revealed in him, so that all who after came there looked on him in wonder; for they saw that the grace of his youth, and the valour of his manhood, and the wisdom and majesty of his age were blended together. And long there he lay, an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world.

'But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lórien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent.

'There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.

'Here ends this tale, as it has come to us from the South; and with the passing of Evenstar no more is said in this book of the days of old.'

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent quote as usual, F&F.

But to be honest, I always thought it was a bit selfish of Aragorn to bring her to that point. That the bleakness of her passing years overshadowed the joy that had gone before. That ultimately she regretted her choice.

I guess that's why Jackson added the movie scene where a departing Arwen glimpsed the future and said to Elrond: "You never told me there was a child".
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what you think Aragorn did wrong. She chose a long time ago. It could certainly be said that she was not truly aware of what she was choosing. How would an Elf know what it will feel like when she sees the end approaching? She chose based only on Love. That's a pretty darned great upside, but she had no way to judge the downside. And, when it came down to it, she felt that she had chosen badly. But Aragorn couldn't have made her feel otherwise. I'm sure he did all he could throughout their time together.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, F&F.

It's better to have loved and lost, etc.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, Elves thought of death as the "gift of man." They tired of the years. Though Arwen's end was sad, she clearly chose this path, thought it was better than the alternative. If Aragorn was selfish, then love itself is selfish.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great postings....
love the elf notion of death as a gift....
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of sad moments during both the books and the movies Crying or Very sad

One of the most powerful book moments for me was in Return of the King during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields,
when Eomer finds Theoden mortally wounded, and after he dies finds his sister Eowyn:

Quote:
Slowly Theoden opened his eyes. Seeing the banner he made a gesture that it should be given to Eomer.
'Hail, King of the Mark!' he said. 'Ride now to victory! Bid Eowyn farwell!' And so he died, and knew not that
Eowyn lay near him. And those who stood by wept, crying: 'Theoden King! Theoden King!'
But Eomer said to them:

Mourn not overmuch! Mighty was the fallen! Meet was his ending. When his mound is raised,
women then shall weep. War now calls us!

Yet he himself wept as he spoke. 'Let his knights remain here' he said. 'and bear his body in honour from
the field, lest the battle ride over it! Yea and all these other of the king's men that lie here.' And he looked
at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Eowyn as she lay, and he knew her.
He stood for a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and
then his face went deathly white, and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while.
A fey mood took him.
'Eowyn, Eowyn!' he cried at last. 'Eowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death,
death, death! Death take us all!'
Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the city, he spurred headlong back
to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear
voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!'


I had to go back and read that part over and over the first time I read it. It was one of the first times a book had
jarred me so badly! Sad

In the movie Return of the King, one part that made me sad and also very angry was when Faramir volunteers to
try to re-take Osgiliath in an attempt to redeem himself with his father. After Denethor basically tells him: 'Be victorious
or don't come back.', Faramir says 'You wish now that I had died in Boromir's place' Denethor whispers 'yes, I wish that'
- the look on Faramir's face... WOW Crying or Very sad
Then Denethor has Pippin entertain him with a song while he eats like a pig - while his last surviving son rides to his certain death! Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IN the Movie...I was touched when the Hobbits tryed to bow to Aragorn, and he wouldn't let them, "No my Friends, you bow to No One." and every one bowed to them.

The last time I read the book...I read the Apendixes, and when the Timeline goes on...Rosie dies..Sam sails away, Merry and Pippen go visit Gondor, Eomer dies, they visit Aragorn, he dies, they die, then Gimli and Legolas sail away...it was very touching..and it made it seem so OVER..after six or eight weeks of reading the book, having it be so completely over, was very saddening.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought the omnibus and have not read it in many years, so I have not seen some of the quotes mentioned here, but I have the movies memorized word for word and must say that they Haldir death scene upsets me vividly. Also the scene where Aragorn tells Eowyn that he cannot give her what she seeks and she is heartbroken. The scene where Isildur has a chance to save the entire future of the earth and does not. The scene where Aragorn sees Arwen at the crowning ceremony and is speechless. The scene where Faramir is put down by his father just before he goes off to a certain death and defeat. Oh, too many to mention.........
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends what we mean by sad, doesn't it?

In my opinion the most unequivocally tragic passage in LOTR is the mental breakdown and suicide of Denethor, and perhaps the biggest weakness of the films is the portrayal of Denethor as a curmudgeonly old sybarite rather than a good but flawed man undone by the combination of grief, pride and a psychological challenge (meeting minds with Sauron via the Palantir) too great for him.

The tragedy of Boromir's death is offset by the fact that he redeemed himself heroically. In Theoden's case it is somewhat difficult to see his death as tragic as he had lived to a ripe old age, and died proud of the manner and the circumstances of his death, hailing Eomer as his successor.
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