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Gart: The High King's Monomach *spoilers*
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:28 pm    Post subject: Gart: The High King's Monomach *spoilers* Reply with quote

Did anyone else love this guy as much as me?! Mr. Green

He was so cool... had so much style... He was as smooth as silk... the best fighter in Mordant...

Though I always thought that Artagel had a point when it came to Gart... Why didn't he ever try to take over? It's weird... you'd think that someone in his position... the badness of him, would try and get power, and could have done so, I'll wager.

I also like how he fought excellent... Although I'm upset that he killed Lebbick Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gart was a sad character. Nothing but a slave to Margonal.
A slave is a slave no matter what his labours are, when Artagel asked him why he didn't try to take power he said 'I am what I am'. A slave, that's all he was.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the best fighter in all of Mordant's World-coming from Cadwal. It would be cool to see the facility in Carmag where he and his apprentices train. Kinda like Ninja training or watching the Sadukan warriors exercising on their planet in Dune.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the reason that Gart was so powerful and the reason that he would never try to take over come from the same source. His power came from his slavery to Marginol.

You can't be mindlessly devoted to any one discipline as Gart was without being, well, mindless. If Gart really had the free will that Artagal had, he wouldn't be so frightening and powerful.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But he was cool. Razz ou can't deny it. Wink

Yeah... He was pretty mindless... Razz But it's not as bad as being useless... I think... Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of the martial arts on our world have some sort of philosophical training (mental discipline) that go along with them. Wonder if Gart's training had any of that sort of thing to go along with his physical/fighting training Question
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sort of have to chip in to this topic! Smile

My feeling about Gart is that he's effectively a walking sword. His total focus is on swordsmanship and service (to Cadwal). I seem to remember a quote somewhere about how rigorous the training is for the Monomach's Apts...perhaps that conditioning eliminates any extraneous desires.

This is slightly cross-threading but as a thought, it's almost like Gart is an evil Haruchai...they can have the same extreme commitment to service, and do have a similar skill in combat, albeit weaponless.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember what Gart says to Artagel during their final battle--
Quote:
I dream of blood.


That's all Gart needs to satisfy him. The training of the Apts of the HIgh King Monomach obviously involve teaching them (presumably at a young age) to love blood. To love the sight of it, to enjoy discovering where it hides in the human body, learning to release it. It has to be some kind of sense-training, some kind of learned sadism. There's gotta be some Pavlovian experimentation going on there. Imagine dreaming of blood, and enjoying it.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely one of my favourite characters in MN. I too would have loved to have seen more detail on the training that the Apts had to undergo.

I'd have to agree with Gart Wink that the training is comparable to "brain-washing" and that it reduces the "sense of self" and replaces it with ideals of duty, however misguided they may or may not be.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know The Killing Stroke (in Reave the Just...) is very different, deep and much more complex-but, for some reason, it gave me a kind of "feel" as far as the Apt training was concerned... Neutral
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a sense I agree, (The Killing Stroke being one of my all-time favourites).

Doubtless though, the Apts training replaced the philosophical values of the various disciplines in The Killing Stroke with something much more "real" i.e. wealth, power, a sadistic blood-lust etc. (Although what power the Apts, or the Monomach himself had really, is up for debate.)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
In a sense I agree, (The Killing Stroke being one of my all-time favourites).

Doubtless though, the Apts training replaced the philosophical values of the various disciplines in The Killing Stroke with something much more "real" i.e. wealth, power, a sadistic blood-lust etc. (Although what power the Apts, or the Monomach himself had really, is up for debate.)

--Avatar


As for what power the Apts & the Monomach have......I don't know where I heard it, but I feel like I've heard it often enough that it's pretty axiomatic by now...

In combat, the person who fights the best is the one who's least afraid of dying--not which is most confident that he'll win, but who cares least if he loses. Maybe the Monomach's power, if it can be called that, stems from this source. He's trained to fight and win, or lose and die. There are no other options. His "power" comes from the fact that he fears nothing. The Apts, still in training, haven't had the fear broken from them yet, making them more vulnerable.

Just a thought. Tear it up as you will. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no, I agree with you completely, but I, and whoever else mentioned it, wasn't talking about the power the held in terms of combat, but in terms of political/social/whatever power.

On thinking about it though, you're probably right in the sense that the power you mention was all the power that they'd been taught to desire and use.

An excellent analysis in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
No no, I agree with you completely, but I, and whoever else mentioned it, wasn't talking about the power the held in terms of combat, but in terms of political/social/whatever power.


Embarassed Sorry 'bout that! I wonder if what Nathan (& the Dreaming I think) said about Gart being a slave is true. Was he a slave, or was he a weapon? The difference, as I see it, is that a slave is still a person--and may or may not agree with his/her master's commands, but have to follow them anyway. A weapon can neither agree nor disagree--it simply is. Weapons don't have political power any more than slaves do, but in some cases (i.e., might-makes-right situations) weapons are power.

In other words, Gart doesn't really need power, because he is Power.

[And as an aside-- the idea that Gart is a tool makes for an interesting thematic intersection with the Chrons, where TC is constantly fighting against being made into a tool by the Despiser.]
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, another good one. Gart is Power. I agree that Gart was simply another weapon, albeit a superior and human one.

--A
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Humans are flexible, their perceptions alter with changes in their circumstances, they can multitask much more reliably than machines. They are definitely superior weapons.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm, a lot of people referring to G as a servant of Margonal; but he served Festten
anyway, good character
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know ami! I was trying to drop hints by saying Carmag and Cadwal, but no one got it. Margonal=Alend!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Gart's power came from his family, like his father Gomer's did before him. The Simpson family was a powerful family, indeed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gart was definitely my favorite character from these books. Gart was all that was mentioned before; power; a weapon. I think he had more going for him though. I don't think he was a slave. I think he was very honorable and loyal. I don't think it would have occured to him to betray Festen or Cadwal. Artagel tried to figure him out, and Gart responded it's who he was. He was really getting mad at Artagel, and I think that was because he didn't always like what he had to do, but he did it out of loyalty. He could justify the things he did, but Artagel was questioning that justification.
Maybe I just speant way too much time thinking about this character. lol
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