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Is Love the Closet thing to Hate?
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The Dreaming
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is very possible to allow rationale to affect your emotions. It's just not something many people are willing to do. There are certain emotions that I want to feel, like love and happiness. There are others I consciously reject. Hate, discomfort, etc. People underestimate the control they have of themselves.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, whole heartedly...
I'm making absolutely no accusations here, bear that in mind.
But I've met a few people who have told me that they have stopped feeling a certain kind of emotion. In fact, I had believed that I didn't have the capacity for hate anymore (which is, I understand, entirely different from what you are talking about.) until my girlfriend left me for my best friend of 10 years. Boy was I wrong.
In myself, when I try to control my emotions, they always end up getting bottled up as opposed to removed. I was wondering how you dealt with that, i.e. avoided it?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, really it's about empathy. That is what makes the difference between an Iago and a MacBeth. MacBeth is REAL. We know who he is and why he is doing the things he is doing. Therefore, it is difficult to hate him. Iago however, is a man of petty, incomprehesible spite, which is incomprehensible (at least to me) Ever read Speaker for the Dead? When you understand, I believe it is impossible to hate. The only human flaw that really upsets me is pettiness, precicely because I don't understand it. I just don't work that way.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, now I see where you are coming from, and I agree with you whole heartedly. Empathy is the key to defeating hatred towards others, or at least one of them, and I apologize that I didn't come to that myself, because it's something I've believed for a long time.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by pettiness?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, getting interesting Wink

It's certainly possible to supress your emotions, and I can't deny that it certainly aids in terms of clarity of thought. I can't help feeling however, that it's bad for you in the long run to do so continuosly, or to such an extent that you stop feeling as though you have feelings. (And I'm talking from personal experience here.)

And although I see what you're saying about empathy, I tend to define empathy as "feeling" the other persons feelings. Now while I'm great at seeing the other persons point of view, (which IMO goes a long way toward combatting hatred) I can't feel their pain, indignation, fear/whatever.

And in a way, I think that's better. If you experience/share their feelings, you are subject to the same emotional interference as they are.

I certainly agree with The Dreaming in his assessment of pettiness as the most annoying human characteristic, although I can't define his views on what constitutes it.

When I think of it, it's in terms of people "sweating the small stuff." Making issues out of things that do not need to be issues, acting on the mean and often spiteful impulses that humanity seems so prone to. I can't see the sense. In a way, it's almost all "small stuff", and the things that aren't are usually things that no amount of sweating on your part will change, of even affect.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, definately focusing on empathy alone will definately lead you into muddy waters, because if you do it enough you're bound to agree with the person. If you can see from their point of view, their reasons, that can remove your immediate negative reactions, and see their side of the story.
However, to do anything about it might require a certain level of empathy, because it is the empathy that allows you to put things into their terms, and showing an emotional understanding of someone is one of the best ways of getting them to listen.
As far as your personal experience goes, Avatar, I also know where you're coming from.
I've also seen too many smart people go to the ruin of insensitivity and intellectual arrogance when they 'decide' that they are beyond things like emotion. Generally the best remedy I've seen to that is Love Smile The experience of falling in love will knock them out of that little delusion. At least, it did me...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not saying I am above emotion, It's just hate itself that I really don't understand. Once I get far enough away from my own anger that I can detach myself, I never hate a human being. I don't think its entirely mental effort, It's also a natural part of my personality. I am also capable of strict self analysis. I cannot understand people who have a "I shouldn't have to change myself for anything" mentality. Self analysis and Improvement is a driving force for many human beings existence. I actually get in trouble with this, because I will tell people things that I would want them to tell me. Like that the way they acted was thoughtless and hurtful. Telling people that have personality flaws is not something that will make you popular, but I honestly want to hear what my actions mean to other people so I can know myself and Improve.

I always feel really ridiculous saying that I am a humble person (after all, by espousing one's own humility you are negating it) but I truly think I have the qualities of humility. I am always open to criticism and always am willing to analyze my own actions, not deny that I ever did wrong. So when I say I deny hate, it is not intellectual aloofness, it is just the way I am.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to conceal my emotions when I'm sad. I don't feel that I have the right to make other people feel the same way, and I always act jokily and carefree. I've found though, that since I've been doing it for so long it's become instinctive or habitual.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy, I'm the biggest A$$ when I'm depressed. I try to spread it around, it's really awful, but when I'm not depressed I'm a different person and can't understand what I do when I AM depressed.


But Anyway....

I'm with you on telling people what they need to hear Dreaming. It might cost you some brownie points, but even planting the seeds of the truth is being a better friend than just telling the other person that they are right, and that whoever else is wrong.


As long as this is a Love closest to Hate thread, do we have an active definition for Hate?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate is... hate. It is something that burns inside of you, eating you, driving you against another human being. It is an emotion, and therefore as difficult to define as love.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we misinterpret our emotions. For example, my girlfriend used to express intense irritation towards my best friend, which she later realized was masked irritation at herself and also avoidance of realizing her feelings for him.
Granted, this is a specific situation, but I think it happens more often than people think.

Is it possible to be wrong about how you feel?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're absolutley right JemCheeta. Our emotions are all too prone to misinterpretation by ourselves. Afterall, how often do people think that they fall in love, only to later discover it wasn't love at all?

The answer lies in The Dreamings method. Self-analysis. Unfortunately, as he also suggests, the majority of people are not willing to perform such an often essentially unpleasant task. People far prefer to continue thinking that the way they are is just perfect.

I constantly subject myself, my feelings and my opinions to analysis. Above all, I want to understand things. Not anything in particular, but everything, including the way my own mind works.

And as Nathan said, manipulating your own emotions can become so habitual, that you end up no longer realising that you do it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm always amazed by the brains ability to trick itself. Recently I went through a period where I was trying to attack a big block of repression, about my previous experiences with the internet from my middle school/early high school years.
I was shocked to find out how many feelings had disguised themselves, how many memories became falsified stories that I would have never realized were stories....

When the mind decides it doesn't want to think about something in its relaxed state, the level of willpower it takes to think about it is simply astronomical.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, and it may be even harder to convince the brain to stop thinking along a certain track.

I know I've quoted it before, somewhere, but I think it's appropriate to mention it again:
Quote:
The mind orders the body, and is obeyed. The mind orders the mind, and meets resistance.


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