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What would YOU do after drinking Earthblood
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:38 am    Post subject: What would YOU do after drinking Earthblood Reply with quote

I would have ordered the total destruction of the Ravers - complete obliteration

I think that would have severly limited Lord Foul's manipulation.

What would YOU do?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having read only up too half way through WGW, I would say, grant TC complete, total knowledge and control over himself and understanding of white gold.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with your Command, Creator. The Ravers have caused so much damage to the Land throughout its history. Never mind the Oath of Peace, we want some payback! Foul may be untouchable, but the Ravers, as far as I understand them, were born under the Arch of Time, therefore they should not be immune to the Power of Command.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly can't think of any command that would have any useful effect or that could not be corrupted by Foul and turned against Elena like Kevin was.

Dawngreeter, you couldn't just grant someone knowledge. The Power of Command doesn't work that way.

Commanding the Ravers to turn on each other might work, but how would they harm each other? Their chief weapon is possession. They have no physical bodies, and if they possessed bodies in order to fight each other, then those bodies were killed, the Ravers would be unchanged.

I might have commanded every Sandgorgon in the desert to break free from the Gyre and come and tear Mount Thunder down stone by stone.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Earthblood Command Reply with quote

First off, I don't think you could command TC to have/do anything. White Gold exists beyond the Arch and so does he. You'd also have to be careful that it didn't summon up Berek to tell him about it as he was said to know of it (that might accidentally break an additionl law or two).

I always thought commanding the death of the ravers was a good idea as they were born under the arch but what might get you some more millage (and something Foul couldn't directly corrupt) would be to command the Earth itself to speak to the people of the land more often, and report any plans/goings on of Foul's or the Ravers. This command doesn't touch Foul himself so it isn't prohibited, the earth HAS spoken before (to Berek) so that can't be breaking any law, and if the Earth only reports what is actually happening it might have aided the defenders of the land in many ways.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that if the Earth itself wanted to speak to the people, it would. I don't think coercing it would get any better results. What about something like the destruction of the illearth stone?
Regardless, summoning Kevin was horridly, horridly stupid. And pretty obviously stupid, I might add.

Hehehe.. what about commanding the ur-viles or cavewights to put down their weapons and play nice? Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What would YOU do after drinking Earthblood


I'd try to spit it out! I mean, seriously. If anything, Elena taught that Earthblood is not a good answer to Despite. All the Lords were blind by their own wish for "paypack"; they wanted to destroy Lord Foul, but destroying him is impossible. Maybe I'm wrong, but out-and-out attacking is not the best way to combat Foul. That's why Foamfollower laughed.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: What would YOU do after drinking Earthblood Reply with quote

Creator wrote:
I would have ordered the total destruction of the Ravers - complete obliteration


Yes, but what destroyed the Ravers may be catastrophic for the Land.

There's no telling the ramifications of such actions, Amok says something along these lines, iirc.

But anyway, I'd probably order a pebble to fall from the ceiling of Mt. Thunder or Foul's Creche every minute and hit Foul in the head...
at least he wouldn't have such a bloody good time. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha. Good plan. Or make the whole creche smell like rosepetals and perfume. Hahaha...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Mt. Thunder is pretty obviously volcanic, and there's a river of lava around Foul's Creche (Hotash Slay). How about commanding a massive eruption to cleanse the whole lot by fire? That'd clear out those pesky Cavewights and probably burn out a few of the cobwebs in Ridjeck Thome too...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JemCheeta wrote:
I think that if the Earth itself wanted to speak to the people, it would. I don't think coercing it would get any better results. What about something like the destruction of the illearth stone?
Regardless, summoning Kevin was horridly, horridly stupid. And pretty obviously stupid, I might add.


Amok, in TIW, specifically states that no one can foresee the consequences of a command given through EarthBlood. He even specifically mentions that wishing for the destruction of the Illearth Stone might have resulted in the destruction of only its physical shell, while the sheer power of the Stone might have remained in the world, no longer contained and no longer vulnerable... better not to risk it Very Happy

Still, the Illearth Stone looks like bad weeds... it always returns, no matter how thoroughly you try to destroy it!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what Donaldson was doing with the power of command is kind of a precursor to what he did with the Second Chronicles. The themes of power and the ineffectuality of it seems to be something that is especially interesting to him. Look at the Elohim, look at the corrupted white gold, look at the powerless, omnipotent creator.

Spoiler:
Look at what happened to Lord Foul when he got his own taste of Covenant's power.


The entire Earthblood subplot seems to me to be another way for Donaldson to pound in our heads that raw power is not the right way to solve problems and defeat despite. SRD responded to one of my gradual interview questions about the law of life by saying that the actions of Elena and Cear Caveral may have ensured the destruction of the Earth, which leads me to believe he will be expanding on this theme even further in the Last Chronicles.

Wow, this sounds pretty good. Might want to make a thread about this.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, so it was you!

Anyway, I agree. About the ineffectuality bit I mean, I totally agree that it was made apparent that the raw power is not the way to go.

Although...it definately helps sometimes, right? Remember the power of Mhoram? Except with passion behind it, instead of despair..
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Power of Command?
hhmmmm....

At what point in time?
The same as Elena?
Where it looks like she'll have only one shot to do the most good and failure could Doom the land?

Tough one.
Amok pretty much warned her against trying to destroy the IllEarth Stone and Foul and anything about the White Gold.
EarthPower wasn't enough before......
Crap!
I don't know and Amok is turning to dust right before my eyes.
I would have commanded the FireLions to wipe out the Raver's armies and clean out Mt Thunder. Then been horrified at the destruction my lava flow caused running through the heart of the Land.

Now, if it was shortly after High Lord Mhoram tossed the Krill into the lake and all looked good?
I'd definately want to hear the tale of Bahgoon the Unbearable and Thelma Twofist, who tamed him.
But since there are no more Giants in the Land and I'd want a Giant to tell me...I'm not sure what would happen.
Knowing my luck, Bannor would tell me the whole thing in his mono-tone voice! Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahaha! Bannor telling the tale.... humm... actually, I think, given the BG's respect for the giants, he might even try to imitate it. Let's see they 'suffice' in story telling Smile
I also thought about the fire lions...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In keeping with the topic of giants, about another 500 or so of them around the time of the war would have been a big help(or why not a thousand?), especially if they had learned of their comrades plight at the hands of the Despiser. Bringing this amount directly to the land for the purpose of helping in the war could have helped a lot but then i suppose Elena was trying to destroy foul entirely and not just crush his armies.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd better be pretty specific about where those Giants are coming from, kev, or the Earthblood might just re-animate the dead Giants in the Grieve for you, and you'll have a boatload of Giant zombies on your hands.

Or I suppose it could transport a bunch of Giants from their homes -- and then you'd have a bunch of p.o.'d Giants on your hands.

I dunno. I think you'd have to be as crazy as Elena was to even think of drinking Earthblood.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. Especially without consulting the counsel of lords about it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JemCheeta wrote:
Ah, so it was you!

Anyway, I agree. About the ineffectuality bit I mean, I totally agree that it was made apparent that the raw power is not the way to go.

Although...it definately helps sometimes, right? Remember the power of Mhoram? Except with passion behind it, instead of despair..


Amok also made it clear that High Lord Kevin hadn't used the Power of Command either, and that anyone who wasn't also a prophet could not foresee the outcome of the Command that had been made.

By Commanding the destruction of the Ravers, would it not be possible that the Ravers' ill existence would still have persevered?

Commanding the Fire Lions would likely have not worked - it had been demonstrated many times that the Illearth Stone was a far superior force and most likely would have mastered the Lions - maybe they would have then served the Despiser like another Raver.

Commanding total knowledge of white gold would not have worked - white gold existed outside of Time, according to Amok, and could not be Commanded.

The Power of Command served to illustrate just how useless power without sight really is.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I cannot think of a command that could not somehow and somewhere be twisted to evil. On the other hand, I have trouble imagining a single act that doesn't hold the potential for corruption, Earthblood or not.

Given the premise of the thread, my answer is that I would give this command:

Ravers! I command you to leave the Land, shunning all living things in the world as long as you continue to exist in any way whatsoever.

This would, I believe, send the Ravers to somewhere remote and stop their acts of possession. At least it has a good chance of working that way, robbing Foul of his most useful and powerful servants. Not a victory, per se, but helpful.
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