Lord Foul's Bane Chapters 20 & 21

[kaseryn]

Right. So TC's made his bargain with the rearing Rhanyn, and everyone is treating him with renewed respect and hope. These chapters contains what is probably one of the most profound discussions in the series for me. At least, it had a resounding impact on me first time around.. and is always one of the more thought provoking/revealing passages. I refer of course to TC's discussion of hope and power with SHFF. Assuming you've all read the passage i wont repeat it all here.. but the bit that stumps TC is..

"How is Power judged?" Foamfollower asked with a seriousness Covenant hadn't expected.
"What?"
"I do not like the way in which you speak of lepers. Where is the value of strength if your enemy is stronger?"


He goes on to explain that it comes from that which is served. The faith of the Lords in the value of the Earthpower and the Land empowers them to their service. Service enables service etc. According to FF this is exemplified by the Oath of Peace. Now as i'm not sure if everyone doing this has already read the series i wont examine that particular point. But rereaders will be aware of complexities in this. Anyway, its a bit of a shock for TC. That people can find their strength in things other than control over others. And that someone so hale and stout as FF finds a meaning for his life in service. Humbling indeed, expecially in the light it casts on TC's own struggles with power and therefore, responsibility. TC finishes the passage telling FF that he doesnt have that luxury, being so powerful himself with wild magic. But the implications of this theme carry through the whole series.


Another thing which strikes me in this chapter, is the completeness of TC's own self judgement. His bargain with the Rhanyn and the Land, his compromise. He confirms his own unworth with this duplicity, so neccessary to his survival, in his own eyes, and reads the Rhanyns reaction as a moral judgement - their fear justified by his corruption. He doesn't allow that their fear might be a reaction just to the wild magic.. that it might not confirm his own damnation. Self convinced of his own corruption he reads his own judgement reflected in everything. The colouration of his outlook is almost complete. Its difficult to appreciate this when you get absorbed in TC's journey. Keeping track of his strategies, changes and perspective its easy to forget that you're reading from his point of view. But it does well to remember the view you're reading from, and to consider possibilities and interpretations other than those he accepts for himself.


Waking from Diamondraught aided slumber TC finds himself the centre of a huge tribute of flowers. Which mirrors the stains Morinmoss left on his robe [just how significant was that pattern supposed to be?]. Despite Morhams objections menethrall Lithe prostrates herself before him, offering whatever service she may. In keeping with the forbearance of his new promise TC manages a rare consideration.. and avoids any great pledge from her without embarrassing her. "There is hope for you yet", avows FF.. leading to the discussion mentioned above. Fresh with hope and having secured a place for Laura and Pietten, the Quest moves on towards Mount Thunder.

Passing throught a great storm of Drools making Morham shows TC the view of Andelain.. trying to guage or influence his intent. When they reach Treachers Gorge they see an endless army of Cavewights and Ur-viles issuing from its mouth.. and FF is taken by a frenzy. Throwing Bloodguard aside like dolls he grips High Lord Prothall and pins him against the rock when the High Lord asks him does he rave. It seemed to hang in the balance here.. that FF's pain and desperation for revenge might give the company away. And then, at Prothalls question, that his last self control and respect might be undone in his fury. First Mark Morins affirmation of faith breaks FF's fury like the most painful reminder of who he is, and how he had changed. He isn't restored.. but he ceases to diminish himself.

"A Raver? In one of the Seareach Giants? Impossible."

After sleeping, TC wakes realising that the drum sounds have stopped.. signalling the end of the army's exit.. the company rouses itself to enter the Catacombs. Lithe decides to accompany the quest further.. and FF stands guard over the Gorge, vowing to prevent them from being trapped inside. FF appears to have come to some realisation of himself, and warns the company against the dangers of Hate. In it he says, we become like that which we abhorr.


Sorry its a bit sketchy, as i said elsewhere i couldnt help myself and completed the series.. so have just refreshed these chapters.. hopefully theres a bit there for us to get out teeth into

[caamora]

I also wonder about the significance of the marks on TC's robe.

It also seems to me that, as Mhoram shows TC the view of Andelain, that he is also testing TC to see if he is a friend or foe.

This is also the most we see of the Ramen until TPTP. Personally (and I speak only for myself), the Ramen annoy me! I see very little of the brotherhood of service that the rest of the people of the Land share with eachother. The Ramen seem to think of their service as better or superior in some way to everyone else's and it annoys me. Manethrall Lithe's attitude seems to show this quintessentially (I hope I used that word properly!). Anyway, even the Ranyhyn don't seem to have a problem with people riding them. Heck, they are the ones who choose! But the Ramen need to lighten up, IMHO!
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An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

[danlo]

Wow the Read actually restarted...must go read, bye! (fantastic analysis kaseryn, btw...)
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True heroics must be carefully planned---and seriously avoided-Vlad Taltos

[kaseryn]

Thanks Yes, go read.. all of u! Shoo!

[Skyweir]

[kaseryn]

I agree btw. There was something a bit offensive in the Ramen's pride and judgement given all the things you've said. They had a pretty insular view of what was worthwhile and worthy of respect.. and the Rhanyn made their own choices. But hey.. in the end Lithe came good didn't she.. shamed by the Quests' example.

[caamora]

Absolutely!
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An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

[JD]

I too found the Ramen a bit standoffish, as if their service to the Ranyhyn somehow made them better than others. However, I loved the part where Bannor took the Cords rope and snapped it like it was nothing.

[aliantha]

Yeah, that was a good scene, wasn't it? "It's a nice weapon...assuming you need one..." Crack!

Yeah, okay, I finished the book before Christmas, too. Gotta go reread.... (What a chore, huh? )

[duchess of malfi]

I've always liked the interaction between Mhoram and Lithe and then Lithe and TC. It's the first glimpse we've had of the kind man who offered to share his home with a beggar in a long, long time.
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Love as thou wilt.

[Foamfollower1013]

My copy of LFB is in my parents' room and they're sleeping. I'll post my quotes/input tomorrow, if I have time.

I'm glad the discussions are back!

~Foamy~

[danlo]

I do not like Foul, not 1 bit. Interesting passage, that I often overlook about Foul attempting 2 set up HL Kevin and killing all his friends instead! Also some very eerie 4shadowing when TC says:

[Foamfollower1013]

[aTOMiC]

In the midst of all that happens in these chapters there is one fact that always seems to tug at me and that fact is revisited in PTP. Covenant does not get the chance to say goodbye to Foamfollower.
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"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
"There are no tasks that I must perform in a furious rush that I can also complete without error."



GLURPWORLD
Kevin's Watch Anthology

[A Gunslinger]