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Who are God and Jesus and what do they want from us?
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Dragonlily
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baradakas wrote:
Read the New Testament.

Baradakas. When you say "Read the New Testament," remember that each person, you included, is interpreting it differently. There are also widely different translations. It sounds like you have been implying that people here have been posting without knowledge, or reading without paying attention. There are many others besides yourself who have read the Bible with interest.
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Baradakas
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies. I knew those italics would get me into trouble. Wink

Still, my challenge stands. If anyone can find a single line of scripture that denounces the Old Testament, or does away with the Ten Commandments, even after an apostle makes it clear that they are not, in fact done away with, please post it.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baradakas wrote:
My apologies. I knew those italics would get me into trouble. Wink

Still, my challenge stands. If anyone can find a single line of scripture that denounces the Old Testament, or does away with the Ten Commandments, even after an apostle makes it clear that they are not, in fact done away with, please post it.
Some would say that "Judge not, lest ye be judged" does away with one hell of a lot of Leviticus...
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As does "let he without sin throw the first stone." Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some would say that "Judge not, lest ye be judged" does away with one hell of a lot of Leviticus...



That reference applies to judging the sin, not the crime. Only the Lord can judge our sins, but He also expects us to punish the wicked for harming others. We were made in His image, after all.

Quote:
As does "let he without sin throw the first stone
.

This was not an analogy or metaphor, but was a situation Jesus was actually involved in. Rather than let the mob ruthlessly stone it's victim, Jesus interceded, stating that, if they were as Jesus was, without sin, they would have the right to judge.

the laws in Leviticus were not an individual's laws, but were societal in nature, i.e. set down for the government to help them govern a large and ever growing populace. These were very different than the spiritual laws that Jesus preached, and probably shouldn't be compared to one another, as one is secular, the other spiritual.

-B
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that actual situation, to me at least, Jesus set forth a rule of mercy and forgiveness for people to follow. Smile A rule of mercy that was more important than following the old law of stoning adulterous persons. Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but IMO, this was a spiritual lifestyle that Jesus preached for each of us individually to embrace, that we might earn eternal life by his side.

The laws of Leviticus were governmental laws to punish evil, the judgement of this evil would finally reside in the hands of God, yet the Lord knew that as we had to rule ourselves, laws had to be in place to protect the true God-fearing people.

After all, Jesus would not have had to preach that message if the mob of people set to stone an adulteress were truly following the Ten Commandments, would he? "Thou shalt not kill" should be the easiest to follow, in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus did not replace anything. Again, I repeat, show me one line in the New Test. that shows we have "done away" with God's Laws. Especially after all the times God states clearly, "I am the Lord, I do not change."
-Baradakas

Luke 9:30 And Behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah.

Luke 9:35 Then from the cloud came a voice that said, "This is my chosen Son; listen to him."

Luke 9:36 After the voice had spoke, Jesus was found alone. They fell silent and did not at that time tell anyone what they had seen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the New Testament speaks of the law being established and demolished.

abolished Gal 3:19, Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, Gal 3:19-24

established Mat 5:17, Rom 3:31

also see Gal 3:24, Gal 4:1, Gal 4:2, Deut 18:18, Luke 9:35, Mat 5:21, Gal 3:24, John 6-8.

thanks to Robert Brinsmead. it is a great study guide on the internet on how Jesus replaced the law (Torah) of the Jewish people. i've been following along as i read.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's look at Gal 3:19-24, since you cited it 4 times in your post Smile.

Paul says that the law was given b/c of man's trangression, in order to restrain that transgression by revealing God's standard. A standard we can never reach. Paul is teaching that through Jesus, believers are freed from the law, in that our punishment for breaking it has been paid. This does not mean the law therefore is no longer useful, as it still reveals our transgression, and is still God's standard.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I would like to talk about what Paul says in Romans to answer a lot of these things...but I'm super-tired and I have to work in the morning, so I'll give you links Wink

Romans 3:19-31
Romans 6:1-14
Romans 8:1-4
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