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Catholics and Protestants -- The Reformation Revisited
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dennisrwood
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar: God gave His son for us. how can that not be important?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aah well, quite apart from the minor difference of opinion that we have on this matter, it's a fairly simple question.

Is our worship more important to god than our actions are?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't worship an action? I'd say that if we believe that God's son Jesus died for us, and that we love God, then love and respect for other humans naturally follows.
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dennisrwood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James 2:14

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
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Cybrweez
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar, I don't think you're understanding the point that you can't ask which is MORE important. Or, to say that its more important to believe in Jesus' sacrifice, means somehow God doesn't care how you treat others. You can't separate your actions from your faith. To God, I would think the most important thing is to believe in His gospel, but that doesn't diminish the importance of love in anyway, it enhances it. Only by understanding sin, and the sacrifice God made, can you be able to truly love others the way we are loved.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Isn't worship an action? I'd say that if we believe that God's son Jesus died for us, and that we love God, then love and respect for other humans naturally follows.


But what if we have love and respect for our fellow humans, without loving god? Does that diminish the value of thoughts/actions that arise from that love and respect?

Are the good works equally meaningless witjout faith, as faith is without good works?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:

But what if we have love and respect for our fellow humans, without loving god? Does that diminish the value of thoughts/actions that arise from that love and respect?

Are the good works equally meaningless witjout faith, as faith is without good works?

--Avatar


What do you mean by meaningless? To whom? For what?
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"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
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Cail
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JemCheeta wrote:
I guess my question would be: What is more important to Jesus? Your belief that he died for your sins, or showing love to all of the creations of god?


OK, this was the original question. My answer (just to restate it) was that if you love Jesus then you will show love to all the creations of God. Why? Bacause that's what He has instructed us to do through the words of the Bible. After all, if you say you love Jesus, then treat everyone like crap, you're not really showing the love, are you?

Now, if someone treats God's creations with love and couldn't care a whit about Him, well....That person is certainly leading a good worldly life, but to answer the question that Jem asked, Jesus would prefer that that person loved Him too, as He is also part of God (and one of His creations). And again, to love Jesus is to love others.
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_____________
"Again, the administration intentionally hoodwinks us by framing the debate as about fighting terrorism and not about withdrawing the rights granted us by the Constitution." - Unattributed under duress
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if it was a question of either love god, or act well towards your fellow creatures, wouldn't a loving god prefer that his creatures were treated well than that the person worshipped him? Doesn't that behaviour serve god more than simply worshipping him does?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
But if it was a question of either love god, or act well towards your fellow creatures, wouldn't a loving god prefer that his creatures were treated well than that the person worshipped him? Doesn't that behaviour serve god more than simply worshipping him does?

I think you're missing my point. If you love God, then you will treat everybody well. That is God's message.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Again, the administration intentionally hoodwinks us by framing the debate as about fighting terrorism and not about withdrawing the rights granted us by the Constitution." - Unattributed under duress
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar: God sent His Son to save us. how can ignoring that please Him?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is worshipping God? Obeying what He desires. Jesus said the 2 important commands - love the Lord your God w/all your heart, and love your neighbors more than yourself. So, as has been stated here, to worship God IS to love others.
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"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.

I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aah, we're going round in circles.

No worries. Will see if I can't be clearer another day. Just short of time at the moment.

Be safe
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar:
maybe those of faith don't make the distinction that you would allow for?
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