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Hearthcoal
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - The Epistle to the Hebrews 11:1

I, too, am a follower of Jesus Christ (Romans 1:16, 17). We have had some pretty rousing discussions about religion, spirituality and personal beliefs over at 'Religion' what is it?. Check it out.

Personally, there are times when I am not comfortable telling others that I am a Christian. Not because I am "ashamed" of Jesus, or the Gospel, rather because I am ashamed of the behavior of other Christians and at times of my own behavior. I am reminded of what the Apostle Paul said about self-righteous Jews in Romans 2:24 "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles [unblievers - no pun intended] through you." Ouch!

Anyway, that is way, way off topic (what was the topic? Oh, yeah: Lord Foul's Name). But if you want to discuss faith a little more, drop by 'Religion' what is it?


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danlo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Nothing wrong w/that! Reply with quote

Oh now were getting too religious! Very Happy (humor) Nothing wrong with having faith in the good as long as u back it up w/positive energy, good deeds, reaching out 2 a fellow human in need and an open heart. But please keep ur MIND open! Heaven & Hell can exist on Earth, Hell is a waste of time and energy and really hurts those who care about us--I've been there...way 2 boring...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Yeah, but look @ it this way Kaos... Reply with quote

TC still had alot of $ coming in from his book and movie--if Roman had any legal access 2 that $ she could have paid 4 all that stuff--who knows maybe some of that $ went 2 Joan and she had Roman pay all those bills...possibly out of quilt, possibly out of fear. Sure she bought him a shotgun, sure she warned him about Haven Farm--gotto protect our investments while they'r still alive. Sounds like a poor town--TC was probably 1 of the wealthiest citizens--a gold mine (comparitively) 4 Roman. They might have written in a clause that said "my Lawyer will get x % of the proceeds 4 book and movie rights, for contineuos service, unless in the event of my death.." Who knows--I still don't trust her.
----I found something interesting about TFOSOBS skimming LFB: someone printed a biased and condemming newspaper article in the town's press about TC's leprosy just as he was taking off 2 Louisiana...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Lawyer Outcast! Unclean! 8-) Reply with quote

I don't get that at all from Covenant's lawyer.

No one FORCED her to call Covenant and warn him that the
town was trying to get Haven Farm through imminent domain.
At some point, she forced the sheriff to either look for Covenant
or look for Joan ... I can't recall.

And Covenant trusted her enough in _The Wounded Land_ to
have her buy him a shotgun.

As I think about it, I have a lot of respect for her ... remember,
she admitted to being scared of Covenant but was determined
to do her duty by him anyway.

To me, it takes a lot more courage to admit your fear rather than
just deny you have it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice take on the town, Hearthcoal. That group of people reminded me of the town council of Footloose!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch it with the Roger-bashing, Danlo (just kidding, Wink ). I'm kind of attached to Roger-dodger. (Still, that's a discussion from another board.) I wonder what TC would have named his kid? Joan chose the name Roger.

SRD did dip a little into stereotypes when it came to our world: The Good Doctor, The Hypocritical Revivalist, The Bad Sheriff. (Seasauce was in law enforcement before he became Ship's Cook.)

Why would TC and Joan have moved there in the first place? Cost of living? Land? Horses? Country-living? Friends and family from a back-story we've never heard?

It seems to me that it is one thing to be a writer and to move to some little back-water community so that you can have peace and quiet while you pursue your creative endeavors and it is another thing entirely to plant your artistic self and your horsey wife smack in the middle of Bigot-ville. Was this really the place where the Covenants wanted to raise their children?

Moot point now, however, what with the leprosy and all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Adequacy Reply with quote

It's an excellent topic, Danlo. I'd have to say that the sheriff was the worst. He typifies everything we don't want America to be. Always has to be a bad guy in every story.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: saltheart foamfollower Reply with quote

saltheart foamfollower wrote:

NOW!! IS MY STONE AND SEA SIGNATURE RIGHT????


The "Stone and Sea" poem goes as follows:

Stone and Sea are deep in life,
two unalterable symbols of the world:
permanence at rest, and permanence in motion;
participants in the Power that remains.

Smile

~Foamy~
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danlo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Maybe I should rephase the topic... Reply with quote

2 Townfullasonabitches USA and realitively insignificant characters in The Land. There r other folks from our world 2 talk about like Joan's parents, (oh no it's!!) Roger, the cultists, the evangelist tent crowd, the girl bitten by the snake...There was also a Townfullasonofbitches in The Land: It was called Crystal Stonedown. U might find this topic inadequate SHFF123 but u have 2 admit it got y'all talking--I 2 love 2 play with legos, am a "Hotwheel" collector and cartoon freak!--and I'm an oldie! I'd really like 2 c ur work, as well--Health and healing!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: saltheart foamfollower Reply with quote

oh, wAIT...
i MEANT benj the lady!!!
benj just stands there.
though alif is kindove an important character (even though she tries to seduce tc and knocked out brinn with that darn pouder stuff....)
the lady benj is an annoyance.
P.S. when i read TOT, the hustin were perfectly written. they where so cool at first, kinda like a bloodguard, then i found out they were bad

just for coinsedense, have you noticed that the creature CROYEL is basically the same concept as drinking a unicorns blood? in HPOTTER?
drink the blood, or get a croyel, makes the person who drinks it/gets one is damned for life the the exange of longer life/power. cool huh??
i had one other thing to say but i cant remember.

oh yea. off the subject for second. i need your help...
Ive been writing a story. its 58 pages long written, and i need your help..
i have a wand in the story and i used the name JHERRIN for the wand... i used it for a temporarily name. but its been 6 months and i still hasent found the name for the wand. can you help me brain storm. i dont want to plagerize/copyright!
if it helps, the wand is about 2 1/2 feet tall, is a gold rod with a black handal at the botum. at the top, is a regilar sized cristal ball that always sparkles when light touches it.
what cool name do you think it should be??? please help
the only thing i can think of is kraspin????
if you guys are intrested in my story, tell me, maybe you would like to read it????
i want to know what people think...
about the author
R is a talented young writer (12) and lives in tacoma washington. he lives with his parents and twosister, with one older brother. rocky enjoys to read the TC series and plays legoes and chess.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised Shocked Confused Cool Laughing Cussing Razz Embarassed Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil Wink
NOW!! IS MY STONE AND SEA SIGNATURE RIGHT????
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: The Lady Alif Reply with quote

Hey, I liked the Lady Alif, and I think she showed a lot of courage (after being a kind of wimp). She really helps TC and the crew escape (doesn't she?).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: errrrrrrr Reply with quote

if i could choose, i'd say the sherrif is the worst of all of the counties badguys.
hes ignorant about tc's sickness. but not only that, hes so cocky and very very very very arogant.
"i dont need no trouble from some leper, this is my county and im in charge!"
in the illearth war, he treated Tc like crap, letting him walk 4 miles alone.
when the town patitioned to make TC move, who was the leader? wasnt it him?
throughout the entire series, hes completely a rude, jerk, punk.
another thought....
what about the woman w/ the kid who yelled at TC in LFB, on the first few paragraphs of the series????
no offense danlo, but the topic is an unadiquit one. because reallly, we only know like 4 characters from the town that tc lives in. its like srd makes us think that everyone hates him, so he represents everyone in the town as "hateful people" whos names and apearances are a mystery.
therefore, we cant just say "whos the worst?" when there is only like 3 characters who live in the town that we know throughout all 6 books.
people like susie thurstin (the singer) and the heavy drinking driver, should not be considered because they arent realy important character, they are just like xtras in a movie--there just for show; so it looks more realistc/cool.


p.s. i found the most unimportant character.
its either the lady alif or the drunk 20 year old in the illearth war Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: hahaahaaa!! Reply with quote

the rucker is deffinatly one of my favourite characters of all time he encapsultes , bigotry , lack of self awareness, hypocrisy!!! jes hes even a heavy drinker !!! such a clear reflection of our humanity!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Townfulasonobitches USA Reply with quote

Aside from Dr. Benford and, sometimes, Megan Roman didn't u really despise most of the humans TC had 2 deal with before he was summoned and after? What a statement it makes about our humanity--and it's true! Somebody needs 2 start a poll about this, like "Who did u hate the most": The Sheriff, The Trucker, The Drunk, The Singer, Joan, etc...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: The Townsfolk ... Reply with quote

Playing Devil's Advocate here ... Evil or Very Mad

It's really easy to just say the townsfolk are evil and bigoted, but
how much did they know about leprosy? Donaldson goes out of
the way to make sure that the reader knows that Covenant isn't
a danger to the community ... that he's not going to spread leprosy
by his simple act of BEING in the town, but the townsfolk don't know
that ...

I don't know how old everyone is who reads this board, but I can
remember before AIDS was a well-known disease ... when science
was still figuring out the causes of it ... I can remember when Ryan
White was struggling to attend school with other kids ...

The people who barred him from school weren't, for the most part,
acting out of malice. They were acting out of fear.

I figure that most of the people in Covenanttown were the same way.
They were terrified of Covenant, of his disease ...

And the fact that Covenant was pretty much of a jerk probably didn't
help his cause any. Cool

(I still would love to see a Donaldson story of Covenant pre-leprosy ...
just to see what Covenant was like before he got the disease that came
to define his life. He was 30 when he was afflicted ... what did he do for
a living before he took up writing? He doesn't seem like the type to be
a teacher or reporter ... was he a professional student or what?)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You bring up some interesting points, KaosArcana.

I would think it safe to say that fear is one of the roots of bigotry. Fear of the unknown. Fear of someone or something that is different. The fear of finding out that you were wrong (pride plays a part here too).

The opposite of fear is courage. But, IMO, we do not understand courage. The popular view is that soldiers (going off to defend the country) or policemen (defending "us" from the bad guys) or firemen (saving "us" from danger) have courage. But "us", we don't need courage. Courage is for heroes, not everyday Joe Schmoes. But I think we everyday folk need it as much or more as those who face "real" danger upon occasions.

If courage is related to the willingess to set fear aside and put one's life on the line, then what greater courage could a person have than to set aside one's fear of AIDS or leprosy and put one's life on the line (so to speak) and get genuinely informed about and accept the Ryan White's and the Thomas Covenant's of our world?

The irony of all this is that, when one takes this courageous step, one often finds out that there is very little danger after all. (But the level of actual danger does not diminish the quality of courage. A person who overcomes percieved danger is no less courageous than a person who faces actual danger. I am reminded of Queen Esther from the Biblical Book of Esther - what a tale!!)

So, in addition to being bigots, the citizens of TC's home town (it's hard to call it that) were cowards. I am not sure which is worse. I think I would rather deal with malice (it's somewhat predictable) than cowardice.

The sad thing is that the "cure" for most cowardice is education. Face fear - learn about what scares you.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Secret influences Reply with quote

I've, personally, always thought that Megan Roman was 2 faced and was the one responsible 4 paying his phone bill, electric bill and having the groceries delivered--I've never trusted lawyers. Here's kinda a weird, interesting, theory: Maybe Foul picked up on the bad vibes in the town towards TC even b4 Drool summoned him and used it agaist TC in an attempt 2 weaken him and fuel his bitterness b4 TC arrives in The Land--the Creator appears--so he must b aware of some ripple around the arch of time between The Land's Earth and ours--perhaps there r many people w/white gold wedding bands but TC's weakness, bitterness, total alienation and being on a very, very REAL brink of suicide made him a prime target 4 Foul. So y is it that TC must appear in public b4 the Creator's or Foul's (via Drool) actions take place? Is it public humiliation that increases the power of summoning? On the other hand is a public forum the only place the Creator can reach out 2 him? Foul was influencing the town way b4 any sacrifice or summonings @ the beginning of TWL so how can we say Foul didn't have a hand in manipulating TFOSOBS in the 1st place?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that Covenant ever would have noticed the people of the town were "bigoted" if he had never been struck down by leporsy. Remember, he attended their social functions ... spoke at their club
meetings ... there's nothing at all to indicate that Covenant had any problems with the town at all until he was diagnosed with leprosy.

So I think that the Covenant family would have gotten along just fine with their neighbors.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearthcoal iz right....
p.s. hearth coal, thanx for the articals
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Berenford remained the best friend he could be to TC throughout the series. And then there was TC's lawyer, Megan Roman; I would list her on the friend side (although she does tell him that she doesn't exactly like being his lawyer...but she's never backed down from a client and she doesn't mean to start with him).

It seems to me that SRD was clear that that majority of people in the town were not TC's friends (maybe enemies is too strong a word). In addition to the Sheriff, the truckdriver, the bar crowd and the revival, SRD includes:

1. There is the reaction of the town's folk when TC goes into town to pay a bill.
2. The grocer insists on delivering TC's groceries and drops them off at the end of the driveway.
3. Someone burns Joan's stables.
4. The local government decides to have Haven Farm zoned industrial.
6. The father of the snake bitten child immediately concludes that TC hurt his daughter (thank goodness he realizes what actually happened before it's too late for either his daughter or TC).
6. A nurse urges the Doctor to "do something" when she realized that TC wasn't going to die from the snake's venom.

In the Second series, I got the feeling that the town had come to a truce with TC. He still lived there, something of a recluse, but except for the Cult, I didn't sense that the townfolk were so focused on him anymore (it's as if they have gotten accustomed to him; he knows his place, and they know theirs).
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