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Lord Foul's Bane Chapters 22 & 23
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Drinny
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:46 pm    Post subject: Lord Foul's Bane Chapters 22 & 23 Reply with quote

Okay...

The Quest enters the catacombs under mount thunder. Covenant is mentally in terrible shape - suicidal at times, even; confused - most of the time.

Then we have the Word of Warning. Why does Covenant see it, when no-one else does? Perhaps because of his ring? Any ideas, anyone? Anyway, Covenant saves the quest - reluctantly, perhaps - and his ring even asserts itself against the Word in some manner when he passed close to it.

Then Covenant performs another important act by releasing Birinair and allowing the 2nd Ward to be found. Here, his help is even more reluctant:
Quote:
In the dazzling blue force, he saw a chance for immolation, escape.


As the Quest nears its end, Covenant is forced to act again and again - use his power, make a stand for the side of good. And thus his conflict intensifies, as he sees a leper who believes himself powerful as on the road to madness and worse. In any case, in the eyes of the Quest Covenant must be showing himself more and more as a hero. But Covenant's own interests are elsewhere - during the chapter he feels he 'lost something' - which turns out to be his own clothes. And why does he care about them? Only because they can help him decide if the whole experience is a dream or not (if he wakes up without his new Land-clothes). He is totally self-absorbed.

in Chapter 22 we see the Quest achive its goal - the Staff of Law. And many more interesting events:

We are told how the ur-viles's ancestors despised their form, a fact borne out by that there are no more Viles or Demondim - each created a new race and passed away. More interesting, we are told how Covenant sees something of himself in them (as, indeed, in every thing in the land) - probably the self-loathing. The parallels continue when Covenant falls and becomes temporarily blind from the pitch blackness - precisely the trait the Demondim and Viles loathed about themselves:
Quote:
...so strongly did they abhor their unseen eyelessness.

The story continues, as always, parallel-wise both in Covenant's mind and out of it (if the Land is in fact outside him).

Then we meet Drool again, and Prothall takes the Staff of Law from him. This is quite and interesting bit, because it seems that he should have no chance - he is old and weak, and Drool is quite powerful (Covenant's staff is destroyed when it strikes Drool's hand). But Mhoram is so sure of Prothall's success that he does not help him... what an amazing scene: battle around them, Covenant and Mhoram are with Tuvor, uncaring but for their own interaction, while Prothall fights for the Staff. Totally surreal.

Why does Prothall succeed? Why is Mhoram so sure he will? I guess he knows that the Staff of Law is not an instrument that Drool can fully use, and that it suits Prothall more. Still, this bit is a little unclear to me... ideas?

Also,
Spoiler:
we learn something about Mhoram, that foreshadows TPTP:

" 'Despite my Oath-' he choked momentarily on a throat full of passion- 'I would crush Drool.' "

Mhoram is the Lord most in touch with his inner emotions, even the ill ones. He refers to the Oath here with good cause... and we know that in the end he oh-so-justly crushes someone...


Hope this wasn't too long...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always been particularly impressed by Bannor in this part of the story -- I've always felt that it's the first time we've REALLY seen him in action. Throwing himself off of the cliff -- dispatching the ur-vile BEFORE he passes out -- and then testing TC in the endless darkness of the catacombs. No wonder the cavewights are scared to death of him! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought that Prothall succeeds in attaining the staff from Drool because he has nothing left to lose. It seems that Prothall has looked back on his life and service as never having been tested. It is as if he knows that his time of testing his mettle is ahead of him. So, when he fights Drool for the staff, he has nothing to lose. He knows that if he fails, the Land will suffer. AND, he is prepared to die for his cause! What is the saying that he who is prepared to die, is the one who will win. Prothall is old in body, but not old in lore and certainly not weak in lore.

As far as Mhoram, he is the seer and oracle. Even if he did not have a vision to the affect that Prothall wins, he has had other visions that may lead him to believe that Prothall is victorious. I also believe that Mhoram believes in Prothalls abilities and strength. Mhoram trusts Prothall to get the job done. After all, Prothall could not be a slouch to become the High Lord.

As far as the Word of Warning, I thought that TC sees it because of his ring but also because he is not of the land. His health sense is so new that he can feel things he never felt before.

I agree with you, Duchess. I love Bannor at this point in the story. TC is bereft of the group and then Bannor walks in! I love it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice point caamora, about TC's being new to the Land accounting for his noticing the Word.

Also, duchess, about Bannor - complete agreement from me Smile

But about Prothall, caamora, I don't know if I agree. Sure, psychologically Prothall has every reason to win, and he does know much about lore... but still, Drool was portrayed as intensely powerful. As he should be, with Stone and Staff at his behest (well, the Staff held between them). I don't know about this bit, it doesn't make complete sense to me yet.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When Mhoram reached the fire, he spoke in quiet wonder. "The power was a defense placed here by High Lord Kevin. Beyond this tunnel lies a chamber. There we found the Second Ward of Kevin's Lore - the Second of the Seven."

High Lord Prothall's face lit up with hope.



Quote:
On the dais, Drool had forced Prothall to his knees, and was bending the High Lord back to break him. In futility and rage, Covenant howled, "Mhoram!"

The Lord nodded, surged to his feet. But he did not attack Drool. Holding his staff over his head, he blared in a voice that cut through the clamor of the battle, "Melenkurion abatha! Minas mill khabaal!" From end to end, his staff burst into incandescent fire.

The power of the Word jolted Drool, knocked him back a step. Prothall regained his feet.


Quote:
Covenant snapped a look at his ring. Its argent still burned with blood. Perhaps the moon was free; he was not.


--------------------

Regarding that second quote: Mhoram is so cool. Smile

~Foamy~
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Drool was powerful, but he was also an idiot! Shocked)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's true, Danlo. And I've always wondered if his entire species is like that, if just he in particular is like that, or if his mental health/intelligence has been affected by his misuse of the Staff and Stone? His body has greatly aged in a premature fashion, has he also developed Alzheimer's? Question
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

caamora wrote:
I always thought that Prothall succeeds in attaining the staff from Drool because he has nothing left to lose.


I just need to make a short comment about this. I have never considered why Prothall succeeded but if he did because he had nothing left to lose I would say that that sounds as if he walks dangerously close to despair. My guess is that Kevin Landwaster had nothing left to lose either, at least it might have seemed like that to him.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drinny wrote:
..but still, Drool was portrayed as intensely powerful. As he should be, with Stone and Staff at his behest (well, the Staff held between them). I don't know about this bit, it doesn't make complete sense to me yet.


I think you can discount the Illearth Stone in this. There seems to be a kind of law stating that you have to be in physical contact to whatever you are trying to use to make perfect use of it. For instance in TPTP Covenant cuts off LF from the stone by making a barrier of wild magic. Drool might be many things but he certainly is no Lord Foul, and simply being out of contact might disable his control of the stone.

But Drool certainly had more experience with the SOL than any other living creature at the time and that he should be defeated as easily as he was I tend to blame on the stone's corrupting influence.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duchess of malfi wrote:
Yes, that's true, Danlo. And I've always wondered if his entire species is like that, if just he in particular is like that, or if his mental health/intelligence has been affected by his misuse of the Staff and Stone? His body has greatly aged in a premature fashion, has he also developed Alzheimer's? Question

The cavewights are not exactly smart. This is probably best described by in WGW where a band of them captures TC and LA.

That said I think that Drool was not just stupid, he was probably insane as well:
Quote:
"Ha! Done it!" he shrieked again. "Called him. My power. Kill them all!" As his high voice ranted he slavered hungrily. "Lord Drool! Master! Me!"

And this was before he found and used the Illearth Stone Eureka (According to LF.)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, perhaps he had not found or used the Stone yet, but he HAD been misusing the Staff. Think of how careful LF is to never use it himself -- he always has others use it for him. I think there must have been a very grave danger in using the Staff of Law in an inappropriate fashion. Perhaps the misuse of the Staff had affected his sanity?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duchess of malfi wrote:
Perhaps the misuse of the Staff had affected his sanity?

An interesting point which I have not considered before, mostly because I have just assumed that the SOL was incapable of that kind of corruption because of its nature as a tool of law.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but isn't the Staff rooted somewhat in Earthpower? Drool as Foul's pawn and mingnion would have trouble not only managing the staff, but might be naturally opposed 2 it's true nature, anyway--there4 Duchess may b right...prehaps the Staff itself is fighting w/Drool...thus driving him nutz... Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never considered cavewights Foul's creatures as such. I always thought of them as a kind of independent natural race that Foul just happened to have great influence with.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Driving a creature insane seems inappropriate for the SOL... I would guess that perhaps Drool can't use the Staff's complete powers, and that his own lust for power and the Illearth Stone did the mental (and physical) damage that we see on him. The Illearth Stone seems the perfect thing to cause such effects.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The illearth stone is of course the epitome of corruption in the land. As I have said earlier I consider it almost the exact opposite of earthpower in both purpose and potency. And we clearly see the difference in the appearance of Drool when TC sees him again after he has been using the stone for a few short weeks/days.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 5:24 am    Post subject: prothall vs. drool Reply with quote

Don't forget that Foul's intent was for the Lords to get the Staff. Maybe, he aided Prothall in some way (or hindered Drool). Don't get caught up in the Illearth Stone. I don't even think Drool ever really got a chance to make the Stone a big part of his influence. Just a thought.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROTE spoiler:

Spoiler:
After listening to Scott Brick's audio version of LFB, I was suddenly struck by this question:

If the Ramen had never ridden Ranyhyn prior to ROTE, how did Manethrall Lithe escape the Fire-Lions?
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but long, long ago when I first started reading the Covenant books, one of the really impressive things that struck me was Donaldson's use of names and titles. They're not alien or exotic, just normal words used to brilliant effect. Lord Foul, the Illearth Stone, Drool Rockworm, Kevin Landwaster...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm re-reading the Chronicles, and I've just finished LFB.

This passage really struck me, definitely as a setup for the Second (and Last) Chronicles.

Quote:
It was only three strides away from him. The loremaster had already raised its stave to strike.

Instinctively Covenant tried to move. But he was too slow. He was still leaning when Bannor crashed into him, knocked him out of the way.

With a mad, exulting bark as if they had suddenly seen a vision, the ur-viles sprang forward as one and plunged over the cliff. Their cries as they fell sounded ferociously triumphant.


So was this the point at which the ur-viles began to reevaluate their Word/Wurd/Weird? It certainly sounds like it could be.
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