Worst book of the chronicles?

Linna Heartlistener · Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:40 am Post subject:

TIW was my least favorite... most of it was sheer torture for me. It was a "gives me back something broken" situation on so many levels. I wanted to yell and argue against the author for days after I read that book. Laughing

Also, I'm lousy at spatial reasoning (and was really lazy about it then) so the battle scenes would lose me.
(I think a Watcher once said "I am like an anti-Hile-Troy when it comes to spatial reasoning.")
I'd space out while reading them instead of trying to build a picture of what was happening, and then just be like, "I want to know what the final consequence of this is going to be." (kind of awful)

peter · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:33 am Post subject:

The idea of this thread is almost (as for some others) inconceivable for me as long as it is the first two Chronicles we are talking about. For me, without giving away any plot details, the 3rd Chrons are no longer part of 'The Chrons' at all. I know these pages are designated to be specifically reated to the first and second series (telling in itself really) but the 3rd series sits so poorly alongside it's predesesors that I would like very much to give it the following acolade:-

Sad

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Just thought I'd get that of my chest!
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....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard

ussusimiel · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject:

Vraith · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject:

Wow, peter, if you don't feel better after that I fear for you...never thought I'd see years of primal scream therapy done completely with one swell foop of emoticons.

But I really posted here to be completely off topic and say
HAH!! Linna!! Strongbad in your sig brought back memories...I haven't been check'n m-email in so long, I'm gonna head over there. Computer over, virus=very yes.
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The ONLY value of universal characters is that they help us, by reasoning, to know new truths about individual things.

I always had a repulsive need to be something more than human.

I just want something I can never have.

As was his language so was his life.

peter · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:35 am Post subject:

Yeah Vraith - That felt good I have to admit!

Usussimiel - Thanks for the links. I'll have a good look at them to see if there are any criticisms of the 3rd Chrons I have missed making myself Laughing

.

But seriously I cannot agree with SRD's stance from the GI. The Chrons are not his to do with as he likes. He wrote them for us, He gave them to us. They are ours. Which one of us would give a gift and then claim rights over it after it is made. What he does in the 3rd chrons effects our perception of the first two, and as such he has responsibility even in the case of his unwritten works. He may choose to abrogate this, but in doing so he must accept the risk of our opprobrium.
Also the view that we can just stop buying the books if we don't like what they have become, while true at it's most basic level, is to miss the point entierly. I cannot 'not' read the series to it's completion nomatter what happens. He could choose to hsve little green men land in a space ship on Lords Keep and say "Take me to your leader!" and I would still be there reading along. To believe that I could 'stop reading' the chrons because I din't like what they have become is to completely fail to understand the impact they had in my life. I am there till the end, for good or ill.
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard

I'm Murrin · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:09 am Post subject:

They are commercial works to which he owns the full creative rights. He can do whatever he likes with them, and nobody is obligated to buy them.
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Heart of God

MsMary · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject:

Vraith · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject:

peter · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject:

Certainly SRD owns the creative rights to the works and can 'do what he likes with them'. But this is a literal stance not in keeping the the 'spirit' of what I was trying to express. I have more sympathy with the reasoning in Vraith's post than with the 'It's mine, I'll do what I like with it and to hell with you lot' stance and I think it probably comes closer to the truth.

In respect of the 'obligation' to buy. That is one I 'self-impose' I guess and I'm not sure that I can explain why. Perhaps for the same reason one might keep going to see a friend who had become something one didn't like - out of love and respect for what they once were. I don't know.
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard

ussusimiel · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject:

Fist and Faith · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject:

Murrin is right. It's SRD's entirely, and he can do what he wants with it.

And I can pretend the Final Chrons never existed.
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We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

Mi alasharia la shantih, Darling Silezia.
Isaiah ShadowLurker, mi alasharia la shantih, shantih.

peter · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:10 am Post subject:

Strangely enough Ussusimiel, pretty much the same thoughts occured to me yesterday after I was musing on the content of this thread later in the day. My adult life pretty much began with the Chrons being a very important part of it (I first encountered the books at about age 18 and was hooked [to small a word] from day one) and here I am and 30+ years on they re-manifest in my life transmuted into the Watch and once again become a major influence on me. Thus SRD's input into my life cannot be underestimated and it will certainly not be spoiled by my 3rd Chrons experience. The idea that the Watch itself plays it's role in the 'forward and back' laws of the artist/patron dynamic is a good one and exiting to contemplate.

Though the idea seems to atract animus of varying degrees, I myself cannot see the problem with the idea that the artist has some degree of responsibility to satisfy the requirements of his partrons. Put most simply if I tune in to watch say Dallas or Baywatch on the telly, having watched 20 previous episodes - and this week I find that Bobby Ewing or Pam Anderson are instead doing it ala James Joyces 'Ulysees', I think I have a right to be pissed. The script writer (or whoever) owns the rights, but no-one would expect the viewers to stomoch a change of style that so far removed it from it's original form as to make it nearly unrecognisable. Why then would an author be different?

(Incidentally I have major reservations about the desirability of this on the basis of it's possibly deleterious effects ont he art produced - a point raised by Vraith above - but this is I believe a different argument altogether.)
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard

ussusimiel · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject:

Orlion · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject:

Here's how I view it: You have, very basically, two types of writers. You have the writer as a job position, and a writer as an artist. Sometimes, they cross, but that's neither here but perhaps there.
Anyway, the writer as job position writes to be read by as many people as possible. These are your Michael Crichtons, Neil Gaimans, Stephen Kings, Dean Koontzs, etc. Saying that they are ignoring the audience, as such, is a good criticisms because that what they are writing for. Any artistry is merely a side effect.

The writer as an artist writes for his art. These are the Oscar Wildes, Leo Tolstoys, James Joyces, etc. They write what the need to write, and if people like it, that's merely a side effect.

I believe Donaldson lies more with the second group than the first. He has to write to be true to the vision of the story, and we are invited to come along if we wish. That invitation, however, does not mean he owes us anything but what he invited us for. If I invite you to a dinner at Red Lobster, I'm not obligated to provide you with an Applebee's dinner. Likewise, you are perfectly in your right to refuse the invitation.
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Horrim Carabal · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:02 am Post subject:

I fail to see anything in the Last Chrons that violates or "ruins" anything about the First or Second Chrons.

I mean come on, the thematic shifts that SRD has introduced have been there at least since TOT.

I'm not really interested in a long-winded debate over whether the Last Chrons measures up to the First or Second. In my opinion, they form one long, cohesive story.

As a matter of personal preference, I like the First Chrons the best, Second Chrons next, and Last Chrons last, but the difference is basically due to my nostalgia for the earlier books, which I read when I was young and impressionable.

But that having been said, I loved the new books and can't wait for The Last Dark.

If you don't like the Last Chrons, fine. But don't pretend there is some obvious flaw or change in the story that justifies your feeling. The Last Chronicles aren't The Phantom Menace, The Wolves of the Calla, the Matrix Reloaded, or even The Godfather, part III (a movie I quite like, btw, but it does fit the example).

The Last Chrons are an organic extension of the first two series, albeit with some new plot threads, characters, and story focus. They measure up quite well to the earlier works, IMO.

Fist and Faith · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:40 am Post subject:

No. There is not only contradiction, but also retroactive continuity. However, this stuff can't be discussed here, the the 1st & 2nd Chrons forum. But it's discussed in the Final forum.
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

Mi alasharia la shantih, Darling Silezia.
Isaiah ShadowLurker, mi alasharia la shantih, shantih.

MsMary · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:38 am Post subject:

peter · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject:

"No man but a blockhead ever wrote exept for money." (Q. Samuel Johnson. Boswell's Life, vol iii p.96, 5 April 1776.)

( Laughing

No guy's - thats a joke. Ok, ok - I concede. Mayhap my position on this needs reviewing!)
_________________
http://jhfv.blogspot.co.uk/

....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard