The Illearth War Chapters 1 & 2

[pitchwife]

Chapter 1: The Dreams of Men
& Chapter 2: "Halfhand"

In the end of LFB we left Covenant

[danlo]

I want 2 kno what book this is from!

Right there on the 1st page on TC's coffee table is a book he was reading while he was making up his mind 2 risk coming 2 town @ the beginning of LFB. Only 4 hours have passed in our world, but apparently, the passage has a brand new meaning 4 him now:

[birdandbear]

Okay - this is some very hasty googling. It certainly looks juicy though! I don't have time to read either of these right now, but they look fascinating.

These quotations are from two different short stories by Jorge Luis Borges.
"the dreams of men belong to god" is from The Secret Miracle, which you can find here: http://textz.gnutenberg.net/textz/borges_jorge_luis_the_secret_miracle.txt

and "modeling the incoherent and vertiginous matter of which dreams are composed was the most difficult task a man could undertake" is from The Circular Ruins, which you can find here: http://www.online-library.org/fictions/ruins.html

This is an essay on "Borge's Use of Berkeley's Idealism" : http://www.gwu.edu/~english/kaleidoscope/Essaypages/Essay7A.htm


I would guess that Covenant was reading a collection of Borges' short
stories.

Note: The Book of Wishes, an international study of human desire, by Clifford A. Pickover, attributes "The dreams of men belong to God." to S.R.D.

I will have to read both of these stories when I get home!
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"If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do now, today. Because if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness - is the greatest thing in the world."
-Angel

[danlo]

Oh man Borges? He's brilliant---Now, how many fantasy books do u kno that start off w/a quote from a world renowned intellect, poet and Noble prize winner??? HUH?
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Would you knock off all the whining Kevin? You're DEAD, for Creator's sake...

[Lord Mhoram]

One by Stephen Donaldson!
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

[Vain]

Curiouser and curiouser.....

[caamora]

I never thought of the book that TC was reading! As I was reading the passages quoted by Vain, there definitely is a connection. But sadly, it seems to illustrate that the Land is not real after all.
_________________
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

[amanibhavam]

I've always supposed somehow, that that quote had been made up by SRD - it's great that you'v found it!
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love is the shadow that ripens the wine

Aglardh - a place for discussion on Tolkien's languages

[birdandbear]

Aw, shucks - just a bit of Googling.
_________________
"If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do now, today. Because if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness - is the greatest thing in the world."
-Angel

[Drinny]

The book TC was reading is certainly an interesing issue. I'm not sure, but I see this as more development of the question of the reality of the Land: SRD gives us every possible reason to believe it isn't real. So we find that before his 'experience', TC was reading about dreams. Perhaps that affected his thinking.

Also, the symbolism is so clear and obvious: desecration in the Land, TC's life; leprosy and ill-health in TC's life vs. the Land's hyperreal health, etc. etc. Plus, TC heard of the research about normal people starting to hallucinate when sensory-deprived. It all points to the Land being a mere delusion.

BUT, and this is in my opinion the crucial point: even if it seems unreal, it is still important. TC cannot stop thinking about it, cannot help being troubled by the unfinished issues in the Land. It does not matter if the Land is real or not; what matters is TC's stance towards the Land and what it means to him.

[danlo]

very well put Drinny!
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Would you knock off all the whining Kevin? You're DEAD, for Creator's sake...

[birdandbear]

The attitude with which the townspeople regard Covenant is horrible enough in itself, but I'm always outraged by the blatant disregard of Covenant's civil rights by the sheriff in the bar. This guy got a tip from some a$$hole who saw Covenant hitchiking and stopped to call the cops on him, and went to collect him like he was some filthy stray. Covenant had every right to be in that bar. That's discrimination man! Not to mention harassment. He oughtta sue their socks off!

_________________
"If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do now, today. Because if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness - is the greatest thing in the world."
-Angel

[Vain]

When you consider how people with AIDS were/are treated then it's quite easy to see that civil liberties aren't worth much. Have a look at the simple SARS issue - and how people are being shunned.

Here in New Zealand, a visiting Chinese delegation was turned away from a meeting in some backwater town because of the fear that they may have SARS.
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The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.
-- The Art of War

[arabisha]

I am rereading Illearth War just now so am late for these chapter posts. Also, I could not get a copy of LFB so I just restarted with TIW. Its been a long long time so forgive me for stupid errors please.

If you look at these first chapters from a Christian viewpoint you get some interesting parallels. Specifically where the law is concerned. The townspeople behave in a way that reminds me of the elite religious leaders in Christ's time. They were so concerned about themselves that it prevented them from compassion. They had basically made the Law a shackle. They tried to persecute Christ for healing on the Sabbath. When it came to helping a neighbor they would not risk dirtying themselves. They did not want to be "unclean." This law was a covenant and Christ's life and death and resurrection introduced a new covenant.

I notice how the Sheriff (the embodiment of the law in the town) was hostile to Covenant. Additionally, TC had his own personal law...his VSE's his self-preservation. If he stuck to his law he gained a sense of security. But his law was costly....he had to abandon his dreams. We don't know much about what TC was like before his illness, but we do know that he has compassion for the truck driver....he sympathizes with him because he has suffered amputation too. His capacity for compassion even in the face of humiliation/rejection is impressive. He gives the blind beggar 20 dollars and hears the man sing something about a "foretaste of divinity" afterwards. If I remember right, his first summoning to the Land came just after an act of compassion too. The singer calls him Berek but before anything can happen, lo and behold if the law doesn't come drag him off. The sherrif tells him in the car that he realizes that Covenant is not touchable by the law for what he has done but is told in no uncertain terms that his presence won't be tolerated.
When he wakes up in the land he refuses the hurtloam. This may be just because he fears he will someone else. But anyone would think that these people who were capable of actually SEEING health would exhibit the same fear of contamination that the townsfolk did. But they don't. It could be argued that it is because they have access to hurtloam and other means of healing but I don't think that fully explains it. TC considers suicide. The Land and his own internal law are in direct conflict. How must the first Christians have felt upon hearing of grace? "What? You gotta be kidding? Why that's just too good to be true." Paul I think it was had to lecture early churches who ended up returning to the old law. They wanted to believe but what was the price to pay if they were wrong? Their very souls. TC refuses food and drink, thinking that if he denied himself the sustenance of the land that it would preserve some vestige of his internal law but changed his mind when he saw what the Staff of Law did to poor Dukka (sp?) I think he saw his own fate there if he continued down that road.

[shadowbinding shoe]

So the book Thomas reads is real. Fascinating. On several levels. Reading these two short stories I don't think their message is that the Land is unreal, or at least not only that.

The stories deal with people that have lives that are as insubstantial and illusory as their dreams. The difference between dreams and reality in them is nonexistent. In fact it's not the reality that is in doubt, it's the person experiencing it that is in doubt. In one a dreamer discovers that he is himself a mere dream (of a character from yet another dream) and in the other a writer lives a year of personal fulfillment writing a play in the moment of his death where he is totally unregistered to anyone but himself and maybe god.

I always had to stretch my credulity to accept that Thomas Covenant's life in 'Townfulosombitches USA' (thnx Danlo) is realistic. Who heard about lepers in this day and age? He and his town seem like a memory from some biblical time even though they have some modern touches here and there (and yet these touches do not really belong to 'Townfulosombitches'. They're impositions the larger modern world put on them such as the doctors and the telephone company. They don't really fit into the build of this society. Why for example does Covenant stays in this town? Surely he could find some anonymity somewhere else? But his link to modern outer world (his car) is taken from him and he shows precious little initiative in trying to do it anyway. He belongs to this town.

Could it be that Covenant subconsciously recognizes the fact that he is a mere figment of SRD no matter where he is? Or that he wishes to be one? (it would make his suffering seem less)

Also the fact that Covenant was reading this book negate the popular opinion that since he returned to his farm from the Leprosarium his life was empty and he just lived like an automaton according to his VSE regiment. He can't have social contact and his inspiration is dried up at the moment but as we can see he can read his books. These books I'd reckon were purchased/found only after he got sick. The two Borges stories Covenant peruse fit his current life much better than his former care-free life. Also he tends his house and walks his farm enjoying the natural life instead of the human one. So despite the hardships of his current life it's not a total desert.