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Israeli Scientists to Find Cure For Cancer . . .
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Z
I think the big O is supportive of the discovery in and of itself .. what I believe O is saying is .. that as much as this is an awesome discovery .. its not in and of itself, regardless of how actually incredible curing cancer is .. its not representative of the state of Israels contribution to humanity or the planet. 🌎

This team of scientists are indeed brilliant and hopefully if it is true .. that THEY or their institution cant publish their findings due to a lack on money ... that the state of Iarael might chip in ... or a global gofundme might chip in to assist.

Cos tbh thats definitely a cause worth supporting.. Id definitely contribute.
Don't you speak for me! Wink Razz

My overall view is that this is like Freaking Solar Roads! Pretty much an empty, extravagant claim that I will need extravagant demonstration to believe. This is due to the various forms cancer does take, so a general cure all seems highly unlikely and some cynicism born from having worked on some research teams. What's one thing most projects claim in order to get funding? That there is application for curing cancer!

So naturally, if anyone is going to claim "We will be able to cure all the cancers in a year!" I am going to be highly skeptical, particularly when nothing but the claim is being presented.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, I was just going to post that O can speak for himself, and his meaning was clear. I don't need it explained to me. I find such explanations to be condescending and insulting.

Ban her!

Just kidding.

I think what you're saying, Orlion, is so obvious that it doesn't really need to be said. OF COURSE we are going to be skeptical of an alleged scientific discovery until it proves to be true. No one said otherwise.

So the question is, why point it out? I think that what we choose to be skeptical of--and what we go out of our way to tell others we're skeptical of--reveals hidden motivations. This question goes more to Wos, the authors of his article, and the article's critics, not you. Why did they take the time to say the obvious? It's not like the global warming debate where one side has a theory and the other side tries to poke holes in it. There is literally nothing to criticize yet. So why are there critics already?

It's like creationists saying, "But evolution is just a theory!" Well, yeah, what's your point? Tell me what's wrong with the theory. The criticism is so obvious as to be tautological.

These claims are not yet proven. No one ever claimed they were. No one can point out a single thing that the researchers have said that is false. So why preemptively criticize it? If you read through Wos's article, you'll find that several people were asked for a comment, and they responded (appropriately!), "I can't comment because I don't know anything about it." Yeah, exactly!

People are rooting for Israel to fail. Just as surely as people are high-fiving the fact that Cail was banned. I think hiding behind "scientific skepticism" or "he broke the rules" is merely the veneer of legitimacy over something much darker. While technically true, it doesn't dispel the sense of malicious intent.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
People are rooting for Israel to fail. Just as surely as people are high-fiving the fact that Cail was banned. I think hiding behind "scientific skepticism" or "he broke the rules" is merely the veneer of legitimacy over something much darker. While technically true, it doesn't dispel the sense of malicious intent.
In this specific case of cautious scepticism being expressed about the Israeli claims, I will wholeheartedly agree with exactly and precisely 50% of your quoted comment, Zee.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:
Skyweir wrote:
Z
I think the big O is supportive of the discovery in and of itself .. what I believe O is saying is .. that as much as this is an awesome discovery .. its not in and of itself, regardless of how actually incredible curing cancer is .. its not representative of the state of Israels contribution to humanity or the planet. 🌎

This team of scientists are indeed brilliant and hopefully if it is true .. that THEY or their institution cant publish their findings due to a lack on money ... that the state of Iarael might chip in ... or a global gofundme might chip in to assist.

Cos tbh thats definitely a cause worth supporting.. Id definitely contribute.
Don't you speak for me! Wink Razz

My overall view is that this is like Freaking Solar Roads! Pretty much an empty, extravagant claim that I will need extravagant demonstration to believe. This is due to the various forms cancer does take, so a general cure all seems highly unlikely and some cynicism born from having worked on some research teams. What's one thing most projects claim in order to get funding? That there is application for curing cancer!

So naturally, if anyone is going to claim "We will be able to cure all the cancers in a year!" I am going to be highly skeptical, particularly when nothing but the claim is being presented.


Whooops I fucked up 😬

I didnt actually imagine thats what you meant.

LOL

Yes ban me Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
People are rooting for Israel to fail. Just as surely as people are high-fiving the fact that Cail was banned. I think hiding behind "scientific skepticism" or "he broke the rules" is merely the veneer of legitimacy over something much darker. While technically true, it doesn't dispel the sense of malicious intent.


Agreed. Soap Box

On the Israel topic, Israel hasnt really even released any data yet but so many are quick to jump on the skepticism bandwagon. How about we see what they have then poke holes in it Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a healthy amount of skepticism about this claim. Cancer isn't just one disease, but a host of them, and a number of conditions. It can be caused by virus', chemicals, genetics, radiological exposure, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey!!! Dont mess with my snake oil medicine!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt consider the breadth and diversity of cancers till O pointed it out .. mmm ... skepticism seems justified.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheFallen wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
Haters gonna hate...

I'm just saying that it's not surprising that "foreign critics" are critical of Israel claiming some good news. Which critics? What are their qualifications?
Errr hang on a second here, Zee...

I think we can take it as an absolute given that any rational human being really hopes that there is substance in the announcement.


This.
If you [Z] had put this in, oh, I don't know...the LORESRAAT, where we talk about sciency shit all the time...without commentary/pre-cusations...

I predict 100% of people would have said "HUZZAH, CURE CANCER! AMAZING."

The identical 100% would have said "I really hope it's true. But no evidence? No trials completed? Seems a little shaky.

Precisely ZERO percent would have said "Fuck that noise, it's fucking Israel."

There is literally ZERO EVIDENCE, but people are skeptical because they don't like ISRAEL?
People are skeptical because there is zero evidence...it looks to me like most aren't skeptical ENOUGH.

[[[HEY! does this mean all those who say there's no evidence of climate change, or human cause, are going to change and believe it and admit they just dislike dems/liberals?]]]

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's funny that when people are skeptical of something (especially something very unlikely) it's automatically because it's due to some evil, deep-seated political hatred.

Rather then simply being skeptical.

I also think it's funny that you all are bitching about Cail still. Get over it.

-jay
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:
[[[HEY! does this mean all those who say there's no evidence of climate change, or human cause, are going to change and believe it and admit they just dislike dems/liberals?]]]


Bing!

-jay
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinswatch wrote:


I also think it's funny that you all are bitching about Cail still. Get over it.

-jay


Shocked If you look at the time stamps on this thread you will see that the last thing said was on Feb 1 right after the ban with my less than discrete "soapbox" emoji after Z's post. Nothing since then.

I can drop it if you can quit bringing it up. Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct, I apologize.

-jay
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:
I have a healthy amount of skepticism about this claim. Cancer isn't just one disease, but a host of them, and a number of conditions. It can be caused by virus', chemicals, genetics, radiological exposure, etc.


Has anyone read the article in the OP? It deals with these concerns. I understand being skeptical for a cancer cure. But calling something snake oil before you've even read their claim seems to be bias, not skepticism. You seem predisposed not to believe.

Vraith wrote:
[[[HEY! does this mean all those who say there's no evidence of climate change, or human cause, are going to change and believe it and admit they just dislike dems/liberals?]]]


Which people are you talking about? I don't think there's as much debate about climate change as there is about how much effect it will have or whether it's a crisis or not.

I haven't accused anyone here of being skeptical because they don't like Israel. I commented on Wos's article. And I've said a couple times that being skeptical is reasonable. But it's so obvious, that it's strange that people feel the need to emphasize it.

Israel is the only country in the world that can defend itself and people criticize them for doing so. If you don't think Israel is held to a different standard than everyone else, I don't think you've been paying attention. I've never understood so much hatred for one of our allies. I've never understood why the Left sides with Muslims over Jews (or Muslims at all). What has Islam or Muslim countries contributed to the world (lately)? Pretty much oil, and that's it. And while the Left is quick to condemn Big Oil and rich oil companies, I never hear any criticism directed at the Saudis getting rich by contributing to global warming.

Believe what you want, but I'm certain that there are people in the world who are rooting for Israel to fail to cure cancer. I'm sure that Israel could give away a cancer cure for free to the Muslim world, and they'd still want to wipe them off the map.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people probably ARE hoping Israel doesn't find the cure. Screw them. But it's nothing like MOST, or even a number big enough to even think about. It's unlikely a significan't/meaningful percentage even among Muslims.

I don't pick Muslims over Jews. I don't even know anyone who does. [[I don't pick Jews over Muslims, either---I find it totally ir-pissing-relevant.]]

I don't hate Israel as an entity...but it SOMETIMES acts in ways that are criminal, nasty, bigoted, unnecessary, and deadly.
It ALSO, whatever it is now, will eventually be a place of horror BECAUSE it is nearly a theocracy, and heading more in that direction.

Much of this problem was manufactured/created by the West, and would have been solved if it weren't for the Russia/China/U.S. total violence-backing immersion in their affairs.

Lot's of people deny climate change, human cause---and the fact is those who say "it won't hurt much" are wrong [[you specifically are wrong, unless you've changed your opinion that "all the climate models have been proven wrong"]]...it's ALREADY causing as much as they thought it could at most, and it's getting worse.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree. I did read the article and I think more is being made out about anti Israel sentiment than is relevant.

Z if I recall correctly you led with an assumption of this kind. I could go back and quote your intro post but maybe next time.

I agree that its way more likely that the general reception of this news would be and is HUZZAH .. I personally didnt look in to the status of the scientific teams development.

Thanks to O and someone else mentioned a few relevant factors .. and then I kinda geared down from ecstatic to hopeful. But no where on that spectrum was anti Israel or anti Semitic.

I guess there is a distinct difference from my perspective between anti Semitic and anti Netenyahu. A big difference between anti Semitic and anti Zionist also.

Quite often criticisms against Israel are viewed as anti Semitic when in reality they are not at all. Particularly given the sizeable Jewish community support that exists that opposes the current Israeli government's approach to Palestine and issues along the Gaza Strip.

So that needs to be clearly understood imv.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me it sounds like you're making a big deal about nothing.

Vraith wrote:
Some people probably ARE hoping Israel doesn't find the cure. Screw them.


This.

You guys get annoyed when people make generalizations about racists or white nationalists.

Also pretty annoying when people make generalizations about people who dare to critique Israel?

-jay
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that a) Israel is awesome and b) people don't give them enough credit. I don't care if that annoys anyone. It's a weird thing to get annoyed about.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're the one who started making this a political thing by posting it here.

And sure, I understand. I find things weird too. Like when people make a topic to talk about how awesome Israel is (which is fine) and then take pot shots at Palestine for no reason ("None came from the Palestinians").

Very odd.

-jay
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinswatch wrote:
You're the one who started making this a political thing by posting it here.


Everything is a political topic these days.
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