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The Impeachment Inquiry
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Obi-Wan Nihilo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, this shows how little the Democrats care about governing, and how much they care about winning for Team Blue at all costs.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has never been a path to victory for Democrats over impeachment ever since Al Green first proposed impeachment back in 2017. Now they have painted themselves into a corner and they can't walk it back.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
There has never been a path to victory for Democrats over impeachment ever since Al Green first proposed impeachment back in 2017. Now they have painted themselves into a corner and they can't walk it back.
It's far worse than that. They've given up on winning back the White House, and they've all but ensured that they lose the House and fail to take back the Senate.

And it's not just the impeachment. They're trying to tank the economy, foment unrest, and deny the reality that we're far, far better off now than we were prior to Trump's inauguration.

Donald Trump is living rent-free in a lot of heads, and it's destroying the Democrat Party.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until Pelosi appoints the managers and delivers the Articles to the Senate Trump has not officially been impeached yet--and today is 14 January 2020.

If the Democrats don't get their shit together they definitely won't win in November, won't take the Senate, and--I concur--risk losing the House again. If they can't regain the Oval Office and don't take the Senate (an extremely unlikely scenario), then Trump may get one or two SCOTUS nominations--Thomas may retire and Ginsberg's health won't last another four years.

We still have not gotten an answer to this question: when the Senate votes not to remove Trump from office what will you do after that, Democrats?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What pisses me off most about the Dems - and it's also true to some extent about the Left/Labour in the UK too - is this mad and lemming-like tendency they all too often have to go so Progressive that they alienate all but the most swivel-eyed and fanatical of the electorate.

This inevitably makes them unelectable - and will continue to do so until the penny finally drops and they get their shit together. Electorates provably just don't like self-righteous extremism. As a whole, they'll naturally gravitate towards a perceived centre every time.

And that in and of itself is a notably Very Bad Thing. Because there being a credible (and for that, read "viably electable") opposition is a vital element/check and balance in any healthy democracy.

I'd actually quite probably on balance be a natural Dem voter if the whole bunch of them weren't so ridiculously extreme, woke and obsessed with virtue-signalling.

However, I'm certainly not ABT (anyone but Trump). I'm more like ABTEFTSCOSEH (anyone but Trump - except for this shitty collection of sanctimonious extremist hypocrites).
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Russia Hacked Ukrainian Company Linked To Trump Impeachment, Security Firm Says

Russian hackers recently targeted the Ukrainian gas company that was at the center of President Trump's impeachment - and they succeeded in gaining access to its email accounts, according to California cybersecurity firm Area 1 Security.

[...] "What we've uncovered is that the same Russian cyber actors who targeted the [Democratic National Committee] in 2016 have been actively launching a phishing campaign against employees of Burisma Holdings and its subsidiaries, to try to steal their email usernames and passwords," Area 1 co-founder Oren Falkowitz tells NPR's Morning Edition.

What. A. Coincidence.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one cares about Russians hacking Burisma; the collusion ship left port months ago, ran over some rocks, and sank.

The House finally approved the Articles but Pelosi is holding until after the next debate. I was slightly incorrect earlier--Pelosi holding the articles will hinder Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar, leaving only Pete to oppose Biden. Democrats are rinnging the system again, this time to favor Biden.

The Senate trial will take a week, maybe two.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one cares until the hacked e-mails showing sketchy so-called evidence against Biden show up during the Senate impeachment trial. Which would prove that the Russians and Trump are on the same team. Again.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, yeah, sure, whatever. That is not going to happen but you are free to hold out hope for it.

As I said, the Senate trial will wrap in a week or two without witnesses, testimony, or subpoenas, and the Trump will still be in office.

What then?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, and this time for real: today is 15 January 2020 and Trump finally got impeached for real since the House approved the Articles and they have been delivered to the Senate.

It appears the Senate will allow for witnesses but I would still encourage them to make this portion of impeachment as "impartial" as it was in the House. They expect to wrap it up in a few weeks--weeks which Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar won't be on the campaign trail--and then the vote not to remove Trump from office will take place.

What then, Democrats?

update: the GAO issued a "legal opinion" saying that it thinks Trump broke the law by withholding aid to Ukraine. The tine to issue that opinion would have been while impeachment was being discussed in the House; doing it now reeks of politics. Good luck convincing Barr to prosecute based on your opinion, GAO.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Souvenir impeachment pens on silver platters. I though Nancy Pelosi called this a "solemn" affair? I guess she forgot.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, ignore Lev Parnas. He was arrested last October at Dulles Airport for planning to "direct funds from a foreign government to U. S. politicians while trying to influence U. S.-Ukraine relations" as well as funneling money to Pete Sessions in violation of campaign donation limitations via the shell company, Global Energy Producers. The only reason he wants to testify in the Senate--which is why he is playing up his story--is so he can barter for immunity from prosecution. Of course, the Left-leaning media beleive him at face value without proof.

Trump does not need a reason to recall Yovavovitch from her post as Ambassador to Ukraine. Ambassadors serve at the whim of the POTUS.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Okay, yeah, sure, whatever. That is not going to happen but you are free to hold out hope for it.
I think you misread him. He's not holding out hope, he's getting his excuses out ahead of the anti-Biden emails that he fears will be released.

It's weird that "being on the same team" with Russia is now considered The Worst Thing Ever, after years of such fears being equated with McCarthyism lunacy. Obama openly mocked fears about Russia ("the 80s called and they want their foreign policy back"). He promised Putin more flexibility after the election on an open mic. Hillary launched her stupid "Reset" campaign with them. Back when Dems were in power, being friends with Russia didn't raise a single damn eyebrow. In fact, you were a conspiracy nut if you even voiced a concern. Now, we've flipped 180 degrees back to the point that if hacked emails about Biden's corruption appear, it PROVES Russian and Trump are in cahoots.

Maybe Putin just hates Democrats. So the fuck what? If he was helping Dems, no one would care. No one would think it's suspicious. Hell, no one cared when Obama was helping Putin (e.g. pulling out missile defense from Europe, as Russia wanted).

With that said, of course it's wrong for a foreign country to interfere in our elections. But it's not wrong to make a previous enemy a friend . . . unless you're a Republican. Then whatever you do is wrong. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would encourage the Senate not to call any witnesses relating to the Bidens, but I would call Schiff and Ciaramella to show that they were coordinating their efforts to push impeachment.

The House also set a dangerous precedent. From now on, any time the House issues a subpoena to a member of the Executive, even if that exceeds their authority or that person correctly has executive privilege, the sitting POTUS may be impeached. If Biden wins but Republicans regain the House, he will be impeached...and his impeachment will be forever.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Democrats have settled a precedent
That you can actively seek impeachment
Before a president takes office.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steny Hoyer once again reiterated the dangerous position Democrats have taken on this whole issue with Trump. He was defending the impeachment inquiry by noting that Trump was "afforded every opportunity to prove his innocence".

Our legal system is built upon "innocent until proven guilty" and *not* "guilty until proven innocent. Do you know when "guilty until proven innocent" was a big thing? Back during the days of witch trials...which is pretty much what this impeachment has been.

The Senate cannot vote quickly enough to find Trump "not guilty" so we can get past this. I almost hope that a Democrat wins the White House but the Republicans regain the House so we can impeach that President--forever--on some stupid bullshit.

It would take a Constitutional Amendment but perhaps impeaching a POTUS should require a 60% or 2/3 majority in the House to prevent politically-motivated impeachments, which is what we are going to have from now on.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I correct in thinking that Trump is only the third President in US history to be impeached? If so, one assumes it is not a thing that is done lightly and if this is so (and shame on those who have brought the impeachment proceedings about for no good reason if it is - they have degraded your whole system) then surely the case deserves to be heard, and considered seriously. In such a case a done-deal rebutal of the charges out of blind loyalty would be an equally degrading act against the long-term interests of the American people.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The case indeed is a misuse of impeachment and a degradation of an important function of Congress. Like we've all been saying, they have wanted impeachment since before he took office just because he won the election and they weren't happy that they lost.

Tom Steyer remarked that he "knew he was guilty before he even committed a crime."

And it's really debatable if Trump committed a crime. It seems he didn't.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That, as in any criminal hearing, must surely be what the trial will determine. If found to be innocent will Trump not have any course to redress via the same process - surely an integral part of ensuring that the mechanism is indeed not used in a frivolous manner for just the reasons you suggest?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The criteria for impeachment are pretty vague for the most part. He probably hasn't broken the law per se, regardless of the outrages he has committed against the dignity of his office. Very Happy

Of course, if their comments are anything to go by, the Senate will not be considering anything seriously. The "done deal" rebuttal you mention is probably going to go without saying unfortunately.

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