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The Ritual of Desecration
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider the mod's declared policy (especially the bit in all caps) on Last Chronicles spoilers in this forum.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to Lord Foul enacting a Ritual of Desecration it seems to me that any power not strong enough to free him wouldn't give Foul much satisfaction. He clearly likes to hear himself talk and if he kills every single person in the Land there will be no one to listen to him monologue.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aTOMiC wrote:
With regard to Lord Foul enacting a Ritual of Desecration it seems to me that any power not strong enough to free him wouldn't give Foul much satisfaction. He clearly likes to hear himself talk and if he kills every single person in the Land there will be no one to listen to him monologue.


Those poor Ravers would still have to listen.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
In The Illearth War was wrote:
For it was Kevin who had summoned Lord Foul to Kiril Threndor to utter the Ritual of Desecration. The legends said that when Kevin had seen that he could not defeat the Despiser, his heart had turned black with despair. He had loved the Land too intensely to let it fall to Lord Foul. And yet he had failed; he could not preserve it. Torn by his impossible dilemma, he had been driven to dare that Ritual. He had known that the unleashing of that fell power would destroy the Lords and all their works, and ravage the Land from end to end, make it barren for generations. He had known that he would die. But he had hoped that Lord Foul would also die, that when at last life returned to the Land it would be life free of Despite. He chose to take that risk rather than permit Lord Foul's victory. Thus he dared the Despiser to join him in Kiril Threndor. He and Lord Foul spoke the Ritual, and High Lord Kevin Landwaster destroyed the Land which he loved.

So that's how Kevin got Foul to join him: Triple Dog Dare.


Legends are by definition mythical and fictitious with only trace amounts of history. I've always thought the Ritual of Desecration took place in Kurash Plenethor - as Mt.Thunder still stands undesecrated. Kelenbrabanal and the Raynhyn are likely key to unravelling the mystery of the RoD.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They will come to Kiril Threndor, and I will teach them things to darken their souls. It is fitting. There Kevin met and dared me in his despair. And I accepted. The fool! I could hardly speak the words for laughing.... Together we stood in Kiril Threndor, blind Kevin and I. Together we uttered the Ritual of Desecration.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SleeplessOne wrote:
Quote:
They will come to Kiril Threndor, and I will teach them things to darken their souls. It is fitting. There Kevin met and dared me in his despair. And I accepted. The fool! I could hardly speak the words for laughing.... Together we stood in Kiril Threndor, blind Kevin and I. Together we uttered the Ritual of Desecration.


I'd take Kevin's word over Foul's, anyday.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke wrote:
SleeplessOne wrote:
Quote:
They will come to Kiril Threndor, and I will teach them things to darken their souls. It is fitting. There Kevin met and dared me in his despair. And I accepted. The fool! I could hardly speak the words for laughing.... Together we stood in Kiril Threndor, blind Kevin and I. Together we uttered the Ritual of Desecration.


I'd take Kevin's word over Foul's, anyday.


Add to the evidence file that the Staff of Law was found in the mountain, where Kevin would have lost it. Foul did not want to touch or wield it, as it was not something suited to his powers. Doubtful HE put it there for Drool to find.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "no it isn't" crowd!

bikebryan wrote:
... where Kevin would have lost it. Foul did not want to touch or wield it ...


After all this time, you still don't understand Kevin's first ward.

Faint
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bikebryan wrote:
Add to the evidence file that the Staff of Law was found in the mountain, where Kevin would have lost it. Foul did not want to touch or wield it, as it was not something suited to his powers. Doubtful HE put it there for Drool to find.


Of course - reverse psychology! Very clever, Bikebryan. Thanks

So let me get this straight, Foul couldn't touch the Staff but was able to perform the Ritual with Kevin at Mt. Thunder.
As this is second-hand news it's obvious Foul was lying because we witnessed seeing the Ritual first hand performed by Covenant and Prothall. Which of course invokes the Fire Lions and not the Desecration of the Land.

So then Kevin didn't actually lose the Staff of Law, Elena did.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke wrote:
bikebryan wrote:
Add to the evidence file that the Staff of Law was found in the mountain, where Kevin would have lost it. Foul did not want to touch or wield it, as it was not something suited to his powers. Doubtful HE put it there for Drool to find.


Of course - reverse psychology! Very clever, Bikebryan. Thanks

So let me get this straight, Foul couldn't touch the Staff but was able to perform the Ritual with Kevin at Mt. Thunder.
As this is second-hand news it's obvious Foul was lying because we witnessed seeing the Ritual first hand performed by Covenant and Prothall. Which of course invokes the Fire Lions and not the Desecration of the Land.

So then Kevin didn't actually lose the Staff of Law, Elena did.


Huh?

I forget where, maybe in TPTP, but it was stated by Mhoram that Foul wouldn't use the staff as it was not suited to him. Maybe he could have wielded it, but by it's nature it would resist his every attempt to use it.

Covenant/Prothall did not initiate a RoD, nor was it his goal. He was trying to use the Staff to summon the Fire Lions, but did not have the understanding (or power?) to do so. Bannor placed TC's hands on the Staff along with Prothall, and Wild Magic enabled the summoning of the Fire Lions.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke wrote:


I'd take Kevin's word over Foul's, anyday.


Foul never actually lies, though. He tells half truths, truths without context, truths the hearer isn't ready for or that he knows the hearer will misinterpret. But he doesn't lie.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starkllr wrote:
Lazy Luke wrote:


I'd take Kevin's word over Foul's, anyday.


Foul never actually lies, though. He tells half truths, truths without context, truths the hearer isn't ready for or that he knows the hearer will misinterpret. But he doesn't lie.


Let's not forget Truths even he doesn't understand the true meaning of.

"A prophecy misread" seems to be standard operating procedure...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Covenant travelled through Trothgard his hurtloam enhanced awareness helped him to see how the new council of Lords had found a worthy way to spend their lives. Stricken Stone was all but effaced, green with healing like healthy new flesh over ancient wounds. Very few of the trees showed that their roots ran down into once-desecrated soil.

Some things need not be written in stone. I believe in what Covenant sees even when he finds it difficult to believe himself. If Foul says the Ritual of Desecration happened in Kiril Threndor and Covenant senses tell him the desecration of the Land took place in Trothgard, then I have to make a choice over what is right and what is wrong.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke wrote:
When Covenant travelled through Trothgard his hurtloam enhanced awareness helped him to see how the new council of Lords had found a worthy way to spend their lives. Stricken Stone was all but effaced, green with healing like healthy new flesh over ancient wounds. Very few of the trees showed that their roots ran down into once-desecrated soil.

Some things need not be written in stone. I believe in what Covenant sees even when he finds it difficult to believe himself. If Foul says the Ritual of Desecration happened in Kiril Threndor and Covenant senses tell him the desecration of the Land took place in Trothgard, then I have to make a choice over what is right and what is wrong.


It is never hinted that TCs senses told him the RoD was done in Trothgard. Just that the soil had been really desecrated. The last battle before the RoD occurred in Trothgard. It was said to have suffered for generations afterwards from the effects of that battle and it was not until the second ward was found that the Lords began to really tackle it's healing.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bikebryan wrote:
It is never hinted that TCs senses told him the RoD was done in Trothgard.


Of course there are lots of hints. There are chunks of a mountain scattered all over Trothgard.
The legends say only Kevin had the power to reduce mountains to rubble - Amok hinted as much concerning the Seventh Ward.

But then I've always maintained that the Seventh Ward was a bum steer, a contingency protocol set within Amok's programming to avoid any danger of Desecration. The awakening of Loric's Krill is more likely the key to the Fourth Ward and not the location of The Blood of the Earth, which is a natural phenomena like a rainbow or thunder.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazy Luke, your theories sound more like fan fiction than anything that comes from the books! Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trout unbeliever
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was always clear that the RoD was performed either on Kevin's Watch or in Kiril Threndor (tbh I don't remember, I'll need to re-read them soon), and that the entire Land was desecrated.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Lazy Luke, your theories sound more like fan fiction than anything that comes from the books! Laughing



And for that observation, dlbpharmd, you get my thousandth "Thanks"! (Sorry Luke, but dlb is right! There's no connection in any of the books between Amok and the Fourth Ward.)
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