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Where do the different kinds of magic come from?

 
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Mighara Sovmadhi
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Where do the different kinds of magic come from? Reply with quote

This is the question that I just submitted to the GI:

Where does the Demondim-makers' magic come from? Insequent magic, for that matter? I mean these questions kinda rhetorically, for I've come up with a thought about this, not for you to confirm or deny the actuality of, but maybe just the possibility...

Okay, so say when the Land's Earth was formed, all the magic therein was either Earthpower or a corruption by the Despiser thereof. This doesn't leave immediate room for un-Lawful energies distinct from Despite. Redeemed evil energy would just be Earthpower, and the two are too antithetical to be fused. Wild magic is out of the picture, too, although "engraven in every rock and stone." So...?

Well, Jeremiah comes from somewhere besides the Land and has his own kind of power therein. There is nothing to what you've written up until now (that I remember) that precludes people from having participated in the world of the Land prior to Covenant's advent. Unless I'm missing some explanation for where the Lost Deep/Insequent magic comes from already on offer from you, or some less esoteric possibility at any rate, could it have originated with someone else from outside the Land's Earth?

Just to make my question even more complex, is it possible that there are other worlds besides the given reality of Covenant and Linden and the uncertain reality of the Land (in your writing)?


How great is the shadow on the heart of the Elohim?

Of course, I don't know if any of us have any solid clues to arriving at the correct answer to this query...
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Lazy Luke
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Where do the different kinds of magic come from? Reply with quote

Mighara Sovmadhi wrote:
This is the question that I just submitted to the GI[:]
Just wondering if you ever got an answer?

As to Earthpower ...
Mighara Sovmadhi wrote:
Okay, so say when the Land's Earth was formed, all the magic therein was either Earthpower or a corruption by the Despiser thereof. This doesn't leave immediate room for un-Lawful energies distinct from Despite. Redeemed evil energy would just be Earthpower, and the two are too antithetical to be fused. Wild magic is out of the picture, too, although "engraven in every rock and stone." So...?
it seems obvious to me that the Land was created by Wild Magic. This is why white gold can't exist in the Land, being an alloy.
Consider Linden Avery's ability to heal the sick, knit bones, cauterize wounds, and so on, using only her knowledge of medicine and white gold. Through the process of logic this healing magic can first be found in hurloam mud - gold dust.

I can imagine white gold connecting with the Land's earth like a magnetic field. And of course the magic works through a complex process of belief and passion.

My Lady, as always, your lightest touch commands obedience
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All magic arises from the passion and the will of the wielder. This, if anything, is the point of ten books.

That different people, or different cultures, wield magic in a different way arises from their choice of a "means of articulation". Hamako learned the magic of the Waynhim by living with them and learning their ways - Waynhim magic is a matter of tradition and world view, not the physical attributes of the Waynhim.

Earthpower, and the Illearth stone, and orcrest, and some other things, are sources of power, which can be wielded by someone practicing magic. But they do not exert magic themselves. Using earthpower to wield magic is like using a river to power a mill.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
All magic arises from the passion and the will of the wielder. This, if anything, is the point of ten books.

There is sure to be many reasons why S.Donaldson extended the Chronicles. But I can't help wondering if the 1st Chronicles were more than enough to tell the story of the Land. For instance, the quest for the Staff of Law and The One Tree could have been told by Berek - and could have been more in the style of Reave the Just and Other Stories - without the need for Covenant and Linden.

Mighara wrote:
How great is the shadow on the heart of the Elohim?

If the source of all magic in the Land were really a Motherlode (Arkenstone) ...
Sovmadhi wrote:
Just to make my question even more complex, is it possible that there are other worlds besides the given reality of Covenant and Linden and the uncertain reality of the Land?

then the idea of TheWormoftheWorldsEnd curled up into a ball at the Land's heart is very much in the tradition of Smoag the Fire Drake, from the Hobbit stories of JRR Tolkien. S.Donaldson pretty much hints at this (breaking the fourth wall), in The Illearth War.


Last edited by Lazy Luke on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the sense that SRD intended the source of the magic of the Viles and their descendants, and the nature of the Viles themselves, to remain obscure in order to maintain a sense of the otherness of that cultural tradition within the Land.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrPaul wrote:
I have the sense that SRD intended the source of the magic of the Viles and their descendants, and the nature of the Viles themselves, to remain obscure in order to maintain a sense of the otherness of that cultural tradition within the Land.

Very plausible. Donaldson himself has said from time to time that references to otherwise unexplained things creates a sense of a larger world.

Lazy Luke wrote:
But I can't help wondering if the 1st Chronicles were more than enough to tell the story of the Land. For instance, the quest for the Staff of Law and The One Tree could have been told by Berek - and could have been more in the style of Reave the Just and Other Stories - without the need for Covenant and Linden.

Ah, I have to disagree. The Chronicles weren't written to tell the story of the Land; they were written to tell the story of Covenant.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Lazy Luke wrote:
But I can't help wondering if the 1st Chronicles were more than enough to tell the story of the Land. For instance, the quest for the Staff of Law and The One Tree could have been told by Berek - and could have been more in the style of Reave the Just and Other Stories - without the need for Covenant and Linden.

Ah, I have to disagree. The Chronicles weren't written to tell the story of the Land; they were written to tell the story of Covenant.


Having not read The Last Dark I am therefore assuming the story of Covenant has now come to an end. I don't read fantasy/fiction any more, (a complete loss of interest like Mhoram's loss of prescience maybe!). Though I will wonder from time to time on the outcome of the two white gold rings ...
It would be good if S.Donaldson were to write an indepth history of The Land, in much the same way Tolkien did with The Silmarillion. Perhaps even Kevin's wards would be more accessable in such an account, other than the cryptic treatment they got throughout the Chronicles. Now there's a book I just might read.
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