Capital Punishment

Wosbald · Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:37 am Post subject:

+JMJ+

U.S. bishops urge immediate halt to federal executions

Lazy Luke · Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:39 am Post subject:

Wosbald · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:34 pm Post subject:

+JMJ+

Pope Francis closes the door on the death penalty in ‘Fratelli Tutti’ [In-Depth]

sgt.null · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject:

So properly executing Dylan Roof is wrong, but Joe Biden supporting abortion is OK?

I'm confused.
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Skyweir · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:42 am Post subject:

You do seem to be

I’d love to help you Null but I don’t know how. These are two different issues ...

A person might be against abortion and also against capital punishment, right?

And this is the Pope and Catholicism that has declared this change ... not Biden. Right?

Are you bringing Biden into this because he’s Catholic?
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sgt.null · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:26 am Post subject:

We have a bingo. The pope is against punishing the guilty. Say noted racist mass murderer Dylan Roof.

But Biden gets a pass as a Catholic who supports unrestricted abortion.

I'm just confused here.
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Skyweir · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:40 am Post subject:

No the Pope is against CAPITAL punishment.

He is not suggesting those convicted of crimes should go free, should not face punishment.

Incarceration is punishment - as you well know. We also know there are a range of punishments within the justice system.
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Skyweir · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:41 am Post subject:

Do you find sharia law appealing?

Cuz few religions today prescribe to blood atonement.
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sgt.null · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:14 am Post subject:

Skyweir · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:21 am Post subject:

Interesting but you too are arguing a life for a life ... which sharia law also argues.

Most western democracies today have set aside such laws and structures.

Though I would have loved to see this passion raised against school shootings.

Who is more innocent than a child?

And what of the children of asylum seekers? Desperately exodusing their own countries to ensure the livelihoods and wellbeing of their little ones. Cage them, mistreat them?

What does the bible say about harming children?

sgt.null · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:06 am Post subject:

Sky - i have been very vocal about school shootings and gun violence.

The forty year sentence was my idea. It works like this; you commit any crime using a gun, automatic forty year sentence just for the gun. Plus whatever the crime. So if you rob a liquor store with a gun? Forty years time before you serve the twenty for the robbery.

We treat schools like we treat banks or government buildings. Secure buildings. Campus police.

We stop dumping the mentally ill on the street.

We actually prosecute people for straw purchases and lying on the 4473.
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Skyweir · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:22 am Post subject:

I must have missed it.

Gotta say I’m pleasantly surprised.
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sgt.null · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:03 am Post subject:

sky - honestly you have known me long enough to know I want actual criminals in prison. Drug users go to rehab if its the only thing they've done. And we legalize most drugs.

We segregate criminals by crime types. Non-violent inmates go to vocational prison where we train them for good jobs. Stop the revolving door.

Murderers and sex offenders either the death penalty or long periods of confinement.
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life's not a paragraph
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Wosbald · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:03 pm Post subject:

+JMJ+

Pope Francis @Pontifex | Twitter

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Orlion · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:52 pm Post subject:

To the original question, the death penalty is a waste of time.

There's no good evidence that it significantly deters crime (depending on how it's implemented, it can INCREASE it). As far as closure for the victims? That's doubtful, particularly by itself. It seems to me that closure has to involve psychological counseling, without which other key problems are not addressed.

And it's cheaper to lock them up until they die. Aside from saving taxpayer dollars (which shouldn't be a moral consideration but is for certain elements of the population) this means that you avoid executing innocent people. Monetary recompense can be provided for wrongful imprisonment. You can't bring an innocent man back to life.

Accordingly, I do not really see how the death penalty serves any useful purpose in an established society, even when guilt can be assured.
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Avatar · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject:

Well, it prevents any possibility of re-offence. (And that is probably literally the only benefit, unless you count vengeance by the state / family.)

And it shouldn't be more expensive than locking somebody up for life, but that's because of your appeals process etc.

Personally, I think it's a lot crueller to lock somebody up for life than to execute them, but that may be a plus for some people. Very Happy

As for executing innocent people, I agree that the burden of proof for execution should be a hell of a high bar...the literal "standing over corpse with smoking gun" or whatever.

The reality is that, in a country where people are executed, the occasional innocent is the price you pay. Sucks for the innocent though, that's for sure.

--A
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Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:10 pm Post subject:

Avatar · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:49 am Post subject:

His point is true in practice, yours in theory. Very Happy

As for the "Coventry" idea, (see Heinlein's "Revolt in 2100") I've always been a fan, but the Australians are not keen on giving up their continent. Very Happy

As an advocate of abortion myself, the "innocent lives" thing is a bit perception-driven. I don't consider foeti human yet, so I have less investment from that point of view.

However, I'm also willing to accept those who do classify them as such, so in principle I have to agree.

--A
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TheFallen · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:10 pm Post subject:

Avatar · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject:

Haha, fair enough.

As for the "cheaper" thing, Orlion is referring to the fact that in the US, it is more expensive for the state to go through the process leading up to execution than it is to simply imprison the felon for life.

To be honest I don't know the actual numbers, but it is certainly a claim I have seen made before in numerous sources.

--A
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