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The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfriend, if that level of deliberate and oh so tritely obvious disingenuousness on your part represents your definition of "honest", then I don't know whether you are best pitied or held in utter contempt.

Certainly the latter but just possibly both.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Hashi said that people from Italy had no slaveholders in their ancestry.
ur-Nanothnir pointed out that they did, and why that was so.


No, I pointed out that this guy's family had no history of owning any slaves in the United States and its history. If we going to say "such-and-such is guilty because one of their ancestors owned slaves or was from a country which allowed slavery"...well, in that case we are all guilty. Even black people, some of whose ancestors sold slaves to white Europeans and to other black landowners. First Nations tribes would raid each other's villages, kill the men, take the women, then indoctrinate/raise the children--as long as they weren't old enough to fight back--as their own. Isn't that called "chattel slavery"? In some instances, they would just kill everyone except the adult women.

The very idea of "guilt by ancestry" must be stopped. No one is guilty for the things their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. did. Why is that even a topic of legitimate conversation?


Wayfriend wrote:
If there is one single thing that society is for, it is to moderate the actions of one human towards another.

If there is one single thing that government is for, it is to protect every human from unjust harm caused by others.

If there is one single thing that civilization is for, it is to continually improve society and government.


Actually, no. It is up to the individual to moderate their actions towards their neighbors, but that is what laws are for.

Yes--one legitimate function of government is to address wrongs committed by one against someone else.

Again, I concur--we should improve ourselves, society, and government. The problems arise when there are disagreements what should be improved and how those improvements should take place.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The very idea of "guilt by ancestry" must be stopped. No one is guilty for the things their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. did. Why is that even a topic of legitimate conversation?
Indeed, it should not be. The problem isn't the slavery that ended long ago. The problem is the racism that continues. When the racism is ongoing - when the overwhelmingly white country still treats black people badly - it is impossible to forget where it all started. And it is impossible to ignore the fact that the racism has gone on uninterrupted since then. And so I say, "Still??? This shit is still happening??? Are you kidding me???" Still, there are white people who think they are superior to black people. People who say things like, "They should go back where they came from!" First of all, it was assholes like them who brought the Africans here, against the will of the Africans, and enslaved them. Now it's asshole like them wishing black people were not here. As whoever's sig says, it's not a little bit like iron. Second, many black people's ancestors were here before many white people's ancestors. If the criteria used to decide who has to leave is the length of time your family has been on the continent... But, of course, the racist filth don't ever have any criteria other than their own superiority. Said superiority being proven by nothing other than the color of their skin.

If the unimaginably numerous acts of racism that I tried to hint at several posts ago, both individual acts of barbarity and large-scale horror, had not seamlessly bridged slavery to today, we wouldn't be seeing the reaction to things like Chauvin that we are. It would simply be a bad, very very bad, cop. But even if that is what it actually was - even if there is only general evil in him, not the specific type of evil known as racism - the fact that we have this unbroken 400 year old chain means it is going to be seen as the newest link. (Well, sadly, no longer the newest.) It is going to be taken as racism.* Too damned bad if anyone doesn't like that. As long as the racism continues, the reaction to it will continue. Even if the white-on-black atrocity wasn't actually driven by racism. Somebody feeling bad about being suspected of being a racist? That's white-people problems. The people who have been the targets of horrific racism for 400 years know what actual problems are. Some white people who are not racists have lost their jobs because people called them racists? No, that's not at all right. The methods some people have been using to try to correct 400 years of horror are bad. No question of that.

Unfortunately, the only actual way to correct it is to end it. But that's impossible, right? So the unfair attempts to make things right, and the riots, will continue. Anybody who doesn't like it has to learn to live with it.

*Not that I'm assuming it wasn't done because of racism. If there is no proof whether or not he's a racist, all we have is the fact that a white man kneeled on the neck of a black man, for no reason, taunting him, even after the man lost consciousness, until the man was dead, knowing the entire world would see it but not caring. That certainly can't be taken as evidence that he's not a racist.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
Still, there are white people who think they are superior to black people. People who say things like, "They should go back where they came from!" First of all, it was assholes like them who brought the Africans here, against the will of the Africans, and enslaved them. Now it's asshole like them wishing black people were not here.




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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Antifa

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1649923/antifa-punched-pro-trump-protester-teeth-san-francisco/

https://youtu.be/KlZ8TCRFW0Y
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't it be great to prevent all of this? Instead of punishing people on both sides when they break the law, then waiting for it to happen again?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
Unfortunately, the only actual way to correct it is to end it. But that's impossible, right?


Damned near impossible, unfortunately. Good luck changing human nature--collectively we have been racist against each other since....well, since skin tone variations occurred.

Even if we got a wish from the genie in Aladdin's Lamp and wished for "no racism" and this caused everyone to suddenly have exactly the same skin tones and facial structures, it would not take us one month to invent new ways to quantify people into groups so that group A discriminates against group B. In other words, we are Sneetches.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have followers of the same God fighting about which side is correct.

Not sure where I read this..

"Society began when there were three people and two of them turned on the third
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarge, your insistence on cherry-picking news stories that show black people in a bad light, while ignoring the more numerous stories that contradict your well-telegraphed bias against black people, is a really nice thing. It tells us exactly where you stand.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Sarge, your insistence on cherry-picking news stories that show black people in a bad light, while ignoring the more numerous stories that contradict your well-telegraphed bias against black people, is a really nice thing. It tells us exactly where you stand.

Okay since some are insisting upon the brave new world of complaining...

1. Blatant and denigratory ascribing of motive, when such clearly cannot possibly be known.

2. Equally blatant accusation of racist beliefs against the original poster.

That is the very definition of ad hominem - and the perpetrator comes as utterly no surprise.

Admin (NB Admin, not Mod), please immediately consider taking appropriate action for such egregious forum misuse and rule-breaking. Especially given the weight of history evidencing similar all too often inflammatory posts from said perpetrator.

Thank you. I shall await and expect Admin's feedback on this with interest. If no action is to be taken in this instance despite apparent clear justification for such, it will be further enlightening and useful to hear why not - if only in order to broaden my own understanding of policy.

(Be careful what you wish for, eh?)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the fine old tradition of how we usually deal with people breaking the forum rules (to be fair ascribing motive is not strictly against said rules, but forms part of our new and improved 'Tank guidelines):

WF please do not ascribe motive or intent to Sarge's post, nor imply that simply posting a link means that he is racist.

Instead, perhaps detail how and why such stories may show black people in such a light, and what counter-anecdotal stories show them in a different light.

Again, our objective here is not to cast judgement on each other, but to understand why people who believe different things to us do so.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WF - I post links to back up any claims I make. You have been asked polity by an administrator to back up your claims of racism on my part. So please do so.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not possible to show evidence that you're racist sarge, unless you go around posting things like "All blacks are inferior" or something like that.

That's basically the whole issue with this attribution of motive. (And make no mistake, I see basically everybody doing it.)

And that's why it is much more productive to say something like "claim "xyz" in the linked article suggests or implies or flat-out says something that could be considered racist because of "abc" or whatever.

And that might prompt a more critical look at how people are framing arguments and (because this is the really important bit, how those arguments are perceived by the other side.

(Which comes back to that thing about alienating people I've talked about before, and which you yourself alluded to in a recent post...how is calling your opponents racists or fascists or hypocrites (or paedophiles or grifters or communists) helping anybody?

All that happens is they get upset because they cannot see themselves in that way. (Because nobody wants to see themselves that way. Or almost nobody anyway.)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm posting videos and links. If I tell you Joe Biden is for gun confiscation, I'm posting a video of him saying so. If im telling you Joe Biden is lying about his Covid response and that he called the China 🇨🇳 travel ban xenopbobic. I'm posting the video.

Me asking if Biden is possibly compromised in his China 🇨🇳 dealings by it seeming that he received money 💰 from China 🇨🇳 through his coke addled son Hunter is a fair question. Not a statement.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
I'm posting videos and links.


Sarge YOU DID NOT POST LINKS THAT BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS!!!

You made claims. You posted links. The links don't back up the claims.

No one has time to debunk all the shit you post!

The Fallen wrote:
Blatant and denigratory ascribing of motive, when such clearly cannot possibly be known.

What about blatant and denigratory accusations of mental fitness? No?

What about blatant and denigratory ascribing of motive on the basis of being solely motivated by party affilliation? No?

I see. YOUR ad hominem attacks are allowed.

In fact, you are TAILORING your definition of ad hominem attack to match specific people that you are TARGETTING with your CONTINUED ABUSE. Any definition that doesn't find one in every single post you make is suspect.

E.g. "the perpetrator comes as utterly no surprise." is an ad hominem attack.

[quote=Avatar"]WF please do not ascribe motive or intent to Sarge's post[/quote]
Didn't! It's all in the text of my post, I don't need to explain further. Don't listen to misinformation please.

Noting the consistency of the slant of Sarge's posts over time is an exercise of statistics, and as such is a fact-based exercise.

And if you rule THAT out (these rules seem very very specific, as if they are targetted for very very specific people) then you rule out being able to address any concerted campaign to make certain groups look bad by repetitive denigration. You know, like what the Fallen and sarge and Hashi do to me EVERY DAY.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
The Fallen wrote:
Blatant and denigratory ascribing of motive, when such clearly cannot possibly be known.

What about blatant and denigratory accusations of mental fitness? No?

What about blatant and denigratory ascribing of motive on the basis of being solely motivated by party affilliation? No?
Leaving aside such obvious "whataboutism", please do feel entirely free to complain to the powers that be with evidence, if you feel unfairly attacked.

wayfriend wrote:
I see. YOUR ad hominem attacks are allowed.
You are of course freely at liberty to believe that I have been awarded some form of carte blanche by those in charge, if you like. Also please feel entirely free to believe that you are also singled out by the Powers That Be for shockingly biassed and unfair treatment. Of course such a conspiracy theory may lead others to see some relevance in my entirely generalised comments elsewhere about persecution complexes and general mental fitness. That's of course up to them.

wayfriend wrote:
In fact, you are TAILORING your definition of ad hominem attack to match specific people that you are TARGETTING with your CONTINUED ABUSE.
I'd invite you again to present your complaints with evidence to the powers that be. However, I sadly suspect, if they do not find in your favour, that you will take this as categorical proof that you are singled out for unfair treatment by one and all, rather than allowing for the possibility that you might yourself be just plain wrong.

wayfriend wrote:
E.g. "the perpetrator comes as utterly no surprise." is an ad hominem attack.
I disagree. It's a statement of my own honest opinion - I was utterly unsurprised to see your accusations of racism against another poster. My opinion is based on the considerable weight of available historical evidence - and there's to my mind a very clear and consistent track record. However, again if you think this is a matter for complaint, please again feel free to take it up with the requisite authorities.

wayfriend wrote:
Avatar wrote:
WF please do not ascribe motive or intent to Sarge's post

Didn't! It's all in the text of my post, I don't need to explain further. Don't listen to misinformation please.
Doesn't it strike you as at all odd that yet again you're the only person in step and it's the rest of the world (now apparently including site Admins as well as forum Mods) that's out of time? But hey, stick with your "everyone's conspiring against me!" victimhood view of things, if that's what floats your boat and strikes you as more likely - the choice is of course yours to fervently believe in whatever reality you need to in order to get you through your day.

wayfriend wrote:
...then you rule out being able to address any concerted campaign to make certain groups look bad by repetitive denigration. You know, like what the Fallen and sarge and Hashi do to me EVERY DAY.
I beg to differ. In my considered opinion, the only person "making you look bad" (as you put it) is yourself - with the most recent in a long line of prime examples being your ad hominem slating of Sarge above. If some choose to examine your posts - all made in your own words - and use these as clear evidence to highlight such a conclusion, who's to blame there? Those examining your posts? Or the clearly unfair and prejudiced people in charge of KW?

It has to be one of those two surely, because after all it cannot POSSIBLY be you who's at fault, right?

Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
I'm posting videos and links. If I tell you Joe Biden is for gun confiscation, I'm posting a video of him saying so. If im telling you Joe Biden is lying about his Covid response and that he called the China 🇨🇳 travel ban xenopbobic. I'm posting the video.

Me asking if Biden is possibly compromised in his China 🇨🇳 dealings by it seeming that he received money 💰 from China 🇨🇳 through his coke addled son Hunter is a fair question. Not a statement.


Did you know that Trump did NOT in fact block ALL travel from China?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WF - when a Democrat says they don't have time to disprove an issue, it means they can't. Instead you attack me.

Ur - yiu want it both ways. Trump is a racist for blocking China 🇨🇳 travel but Trump didn't go far enough.

And the question remains, is Biden soft on China 🇨🇳 because he was getting money from them? Is Biden compromised?

Biden is taking four days off in October during the campaign. Is it because he doesn't want to answer questions about Bu ter?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
No one has time to debunk all the shit you post!


Why do you feel the need to debunk anything he posts? If he posts wild conspiracy theories or outright misinformation, it is up each individual to figure that out for themselves.

wayfriend wrote:
And if you rule THAT out (these rules seem very very specific, as if they are targetted for very very specific people) then you rule out being able to address any concerted campaign to make certain groups look bad by repetitive denigration. You know, like what the Fallen and sarge and Hashi do to me EVERY DAY.


Actually, for the most part I ignore you. I have learned over the years here that it is often unwise to attempt to interact with you directly.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purposely pull articles and videos from non conservative sources when I can. There are times I don't post something because I can't find a liberal source for the info.

Some sources like crime numbers, murder rates, etc you can get from the FBI.

And unlike others here I have admitted when I am wrong. I was wrong about Jacob Blake being wanted for raping a child. He was wanted for raping an adult. I admitted my mistake and owned up to it. I even apologized for my mistake.

And it is not my goal to make any one poster look bad. It is my goal to point out what the left and thdir media is lying about.
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